Talk:Samson Agonistes

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Bible exlink[edit]

I think that rather than merely mention the relevant chapter'n'verse of the Bible, we should provide an external link to some web resource that has the actual text. I don't know of one offhand, but I'm sure someone can give us some pointers if necessary. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:18, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

biblegateway.com provides passages for free and encourages quotation and linking. I've read over their copyright and quotation rules and we can link to them with no issues, given that we put on the page where we are sending them. please review the addition if you will.
Of note, I found in looking this up, that the King James Version (though a little less perceptible than more modern translations) is in public domain. Long, Tall Texan 00:09, Jun 9, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks - I slimmed down the copy, as we don't need to disclaim external links (except for the very few shock site links, and arguably pornographic ones). KJV is indeed public domain (which doesn't stop the odd site from claiming copyright anyway). Bible translations has some great comparisons of how different translations handle the same passages, and while KJV can be a bit arcane, some of the modern translations read (IMHO) like passages from Bob the Builder :) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:36, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
If I hadn't already seen someone crosslink to Alvin and the Chipmunks today, the Bob the Builder line would be my favorite reference of the day! :) Long, Tall Texan 00:40, Jun 9, 2004 (UTC)

Eyeless in Gaza[edit]

Is this the source of the phrase "Eyeless in Gaza"? If so, I think that fact merits a mention, perhaps with a link to Aldous Huxley's work of the same name (Eyeless in Gaza), even though we don't yet have an article for that (redlinks good, sometimes). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:02, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

In a word, Yes. Milton was ever the writer's muse and this is the original source for the famous "Eyeless in Gaza" quotation. (Line 40 in the original quarto.) I forgot that I had removed that line in favor of the line I did quote. The red link might stay that way, as I haven't read Huxley's work. Feel free to work in the mention if you wish. I only knew of the phrase as popular, not titular. (This article was a red link til today. redlinks ARE good sometimes.)
"Wikipedia - You learn 127 things new everyday." Long, Tall Texan 01:21, Jun 9, 2004 (UTC)
Done, although a few words from you as to what it precisely means/symbolises might be good. nah, that'd be redundant -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:44, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Meaning of title[edit]

What does Samson Agonistes actually translate to? "The Agonies of Samson"? Ideally we'd translate the title, saying something like:

An agon is a struggle, any struggle. Agonistes best translates, "wrestler". This is a good pun as Samson spends mosts of the play at rest. The restive temper of the drama is revisited in East Coker by T.S. Eliot when he quotes Samson Agonistes in several places to compare Samson to a rider on an underground subway car.

Samson Agonistes (Greek: "The Agonies of Samson") is a work of ...

-- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:41, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Have a look at the stub I put together for agonistes today. This given, I think it'd be better to link it to the stub as the concept is more than just "being in agony," and is later alluded to by several modern authors. (Charles Robert's usage being what got me researching all this mess.) Long, Tall Texan 01:44, Jun 9, 2004 (UTC)
Then "agonist" is a perfectly cromulent word (it's in the dictionary, although not the wiktionary). "Antagonist" is a bit more mainstream (and has a comparable dicdef) but I don't think that's from the same greek root. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:55, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
It actually would be from the same Greek root. Agonist is from the root 'agon,' which is a struggle or competition. An agonizer means 'a struggler.' An antagonizer is one who struggles against something or someone. Same root, just an added prefix. Therefore, I suppose the translation would be "Samson the Struggler" or "Samson the Agonizer," if those make logical sense. I think it's simply that agonist and agonizer have fallen into disuse (They aren't very nice words and English tends to pick the best euphemism for the job.), while antagonizer remains a bit more popular. Long, Tall Texan 02:05, Jun 9, 2004 (UTC)
Actually, agonistes is also a word used to describe saint or martyr in certain Christian texts -- yet another layer of wordplay depicting Samson as a champion for God, and Samson as a man in conflict with himself. Gaylegoh (talk) 13:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

translation of title[edit]

Milton is making a Greek pun that it is not easy to render in English. The straightforward translation would be "Samson the Warrior", fitting the hero's reputation, but it can also be rendered "Samson in Conflict", because he spends the play trying to make sense of his tragic situation. CharlesTheBold (talk) 11:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

UC Berkeley performance[edit]

I took this out, because an undergraduate performance doesn't seem particularly noteworthy. Presumably this has been performed more than once in its history? If there's something more interesting about this performance that I'm missing, put it back, I suppose, but barring that... AdjectiveAnimal (talk) 17:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC)