Talk:Ted W. Lawson

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Merges and redirects to this article[edit]

The Ruptured Duck (aircraft), Dean Davenport, Charles McClure, Robert Cleaver, and David Thatcher articles have been merged into and redirected here per recommendations on the MILHIST talk page here. The Ruptured Duck article was 90% repetitive information that already appeared in this article, while the other crewmembers' notability lay in being members of Lawson's crew during the raid. BrokenSphereMsg me 22:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrote the lead paragraph under WWII to improve readability - it used to sound like all 16 B-25s were known as the ruptured duck. Although longer, I think "had to have" the amputation sounds better than "had" - it wasn't like he wanted the leg removed...jmdeur 15:24 6 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.148.60.151 (talk)

Fair use rationale for Image:Duckart.jpg[edit]

Image:Duckart.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lawson Army Airfield[edit]

I've started discussion about the naming of Lawson Army Airfield at Talk:Lawson Army Airfield#Who's it named after?. —C.Fred (talk) 01:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I found no evidence to support Ted Lawson being the son of Walter R. Lawson, for whom Lawson Army Airfield was originally named, so I removed that info from the Wiki. Really need some more supporting evidence for the airfield being named for both Lawsons, but I'llm leave that "as is" for now. Sector001 (talk) 08:17, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

wrong photo[edit]

- The photo is not of Lawson, it is of Lt Charles L. McClure, Lawson's navigator. It is cropped from the 5-man crew photo which shows McClure at left in the second row, and Lawson at left in the front row. The mistake was caused because the crew photo in Wikipedia is labeled ambiguously: is simply identifies all 5 crew members from leff-to-right... it should identify the front row left-to-right (Lawson and Davenport), and then the second row left-to-right (McClure, Clever (not "Cleaver"), and Thatcher). Ruptured Duck (talk) 02:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The correction made on the Ted Lawson article has compounded the error further. The proper correction would have been to change the photo from that of McClure to Lawson. Instead, the photo of McClure still remains but the caption under the photo has been changed. Thus, we still have an article about Lawson, but have a photo of McClure (albeit correctly identfying him). If the error cannot be corrected, it might be better to remove the photo completely than to show a photo of one of Lawson's crew members. Paa123 (talk) 19:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is the most UNFRIENDLY site I've ever been on. I cannot find with any certainty and consistency pages to make comments on an article, and, if I am able to do so, I am unable to recieve any intellegent, or otherwise, response to my comments. In October, I pointed out that the photo for Ted Lawson article was of him, but his navigator, Jim McCleur. Several others have made to same observation, but no one has seen fit to make to necesary changes --- not even the User for that article. Unless the User can participate in correcting Wikepeda in a timely manner, he/she should abdicate his/her role.

Paa123 (talk) 23:42, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think we have the correct photo of Lawson now, but can't be for sure -- someone else uploaded it. To my eyes it doesn't bear that much of a resemblance to the confirmed Lawson photo used on the dust cover of his book, which also is of the same time period. I guess if the pic is still FUBAR someone will catch it, hopefully. Sector001 (talk) 15:17, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ted W. Lawson/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)Press [show] to view →
This article has a serious error. The photograph (image) attached to it is not that of Lt. Ted W. Lawson; it is Lt. Charles L. McClure, navigator of Lt. Lawson's flight crew. I believe the mix up results from selecting the wrong person (McClure) from a photo of Lt. Lawson's full crew. This group photo of Lawson's full crew is in Wikipedia's article, The Ruptured Duck (B-25) and in Image: Ruptured Duck Crew.jpg. For these two images, Wikipedia mistakenly added to the captions "Left to Right" and "L-R" to identify persons in the group photo. However, the source photo from the Air Force does not use the "Left to Right" notation, but simply lists names of the flight crew. The listing seems to follow a military (hierarchical?) practice. That is, pilot and co-pilot (commanders of the aircraft), and, subsequently, navigator, bombardier and engineer/gunner (i.e., duties/responsibilities/rank?). This becomes more clear when it is noticed that the official Air Force photo (taken on board the USS Hornet) of the whole crew shows the two top members of the crew (pilot and co-pilot) positioned a step in front of the three other crew members (navigator, bombardier and gunner). Thus, in using a "two row" arrangement, the Air Force list the pilot (Lawson) and co-pilot (Davenport) at the top of its list (and in the "front" row) and the remaining crew members (McClure, Clever and Thatcher) at the bottom of the list (and in the "back" row). Using the Air Forces notation, Lt. Lawson would appear to be second from the left in the group photo. It appears that Wikipedia may have assumed the Air Force list identified crew members as though they were in a straight line and, consequently, inserted the "Left to Right" notation. This means that the caption under Lt. Lawson's image is incorrect. In addition, captions under the photo of the flight crew in The Ruptured DUck (B-25) article and its Image using the "Left to Right" or "L-R" notation are wrong. In fact, all of the crew identities in the group photos, except for David Thatcher at the far right, are incorrect. As a reference: I contacted Col. C.V. Glines, USAF (Ret.) who is the Raiders historian and listed in Wikipedia's bibliographies. He confirmed that the proper identity of crew members in a "Left to Right" notation would be: McClure, Lawson, Clever, Davenport and Thatcher. Perhaps, Wikipedia can contact him. In addition, two photos of Lt. Lawson in his book, Thirty Seconds over Tokyo" do not resemble the photo of him in this article. Correcting this error requires changing a photo and that is beyond my capability. Paa123 (talk) 01:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 01:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 07:44, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Sole Author, not Co-Author, of Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo?[edit]

I have raised the same issue on Bob Considine's wikipedia page, where the lede cites the book Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo.

The following is a quote from the American Film Institute Catalog entry on Thirty Seconds over Tokyo, saying that the onscreen authorship credits are wrong.

"Onscreen credits list Ted W. Lawson and Robert Considine as authors of both "the book" and a "story" in Collier's magazine. Lawson was the sole author of the book Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo , however, and Considine is not listed in contemporary sources as Lawson's co-author in any published Collier's story or article. In the credits of the copyright cutting continuity, which was submitted two months prior to the film's release, the word " Collier's " is crossed off, leaving the word "story." Considine did co-write an article with Lawson entitled "Birth of a Book: Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo," which was published in the 19 Jul 1943 issue of Time magazine, but it is not known if that article was a source of the film, or if Considine, who was an M-G-M contract writer, merely worked on a story treatment with Lawson. In addition, War Department records, Bureau of Public Relations, contained at NARS, indicate that the file on the film included galleys for a Collier's article by Lawson entitled "Aeronautical Engineer," but it is not known if that article was used in any way, or if it was published under another title. Lawson book, Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo , was first published in Collier's between 22 May and 26 Jun 1943."

In this article, under the heading "Author", a detailed description of this co-authoring arrangement is provided, but no source is cited. Judging by the book cover displayed there, Considine deserves an editing credit, but there is a world of difference between co-authoring and editing.

I would not trust the very entertaining comment (in Considine's Wikipedia bio) from TIME about Considine's prolific ghostwriting without additional confirmation. AFI clearly put some effort into their research.

Lawson is not described as sharing authorship with anyone on either the Official Website of the raiders or that of the Children of the Raiders.Merry medievalist (talk) 20:43, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Update On February 14, 1954, in an article headlined "Great Men and Events for Younger Readers" The New York Times' subhead credits Considine as editor, not co-author. Merry medievalist (talk) 03:49, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Location of aircraft's landing during Tokyo raid[edit]

This artical says "off the coast of the small island of Nantien", Doolittle Raid says "ditched at sea Changshu, China". Both do not list sources. Any idea which one is right? Guoguo914 (talk) 12:02, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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