User talk:Djegan/Archive10

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This archive page covers approximately the dates between 23-JUL-07 and 29-NOV-07.

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Recent An Daingean Change

I have moved Dingle under the assumption that I was "being bold". I'm tired of people calling the town by its incorrect name. Go to the talk:Dingle and see my reasoning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaw, Stephen (talk • contribs)

"Be Bold" is generally not appropriate if their is a consensus against what is been done. Djegan 16:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I assumed you would gather that it was me speaking to you. Meas Mór, four tildes (joking) here you go: Shaw, Stephen 16:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm aware of the steps involved in moving a page (unless I forgot to click save or something) and I have been contributing to Wikipedia under various usernames for the past few years. I have reviewed the manual of style and understand that the English name should be used where the Irish one hasn't been widely adopted. My question is whether that applies here where the English name no longer exists. I would understand your arguement more if you would elaborate Shaw, Stephen 16:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The English name definitely still exists, the Government never passed a law outlawing the name or zapping it into infinity, did they? Rather they passed a law making the Irish name the only official name of the town. Their is a difference. Djegan 16:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

If you read the act you would find that the Government did pass a law outlawing the name. In Gaeltacht areas, the English names have been stripped of their status. As you admit that the Irish name is the only official name of the town, do you still maintain that the article should be under an incorrect name? The article explains what happened to the Dingle name. If there were a redirect from Dingle to An Daingean, someone looking for it would realise the change. Shaw, Stephen 16:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

What section of the act was it outlawed in? I would like to read that. Djegan 16:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The Placenames Order (County Kerry) 2005 (also backed by the Offical Languages Act) outlawed the name Dingle (as in it no longer has official status). If you need things explained to you, go to the website for an comisinéir teanga Shaw, Stephen 16:53, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Where does that act say that the English name is unlawful in the private sphere? Please dont refer me to a single website. Djegan 17:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I refered you to that website as it's purpose is to inform citizens of language rights in Ireland, and to list information about various laws, schemes and statutory instruments that have been enacted under the Official Languages Act. I'm not saying that the name is unlawful in the private sphere - that's just contrived. What I'm saying is that as it is no longer the official name of the town, nor does it exist in the eyes of the law, An Oireachtas, Ordinance Survey of Ireland, or on our road network, wikipedia (as a project promoting knowledge) should uphold that.Shaw, Stephen 17:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

But wikipedia is in the private sphere (and that is not contrived) because the Oireachtas does not legislate for wikipedia or as for that manner things that happen abroad. Wikipedia is not the Oireachtas Press Office. Their are many precidents on wikipedia of not using the "offical" name or term for something as used in the home country or a certain country, see for instance Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). Djegan 17:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Wikipedia is not the Oireachtas press office. Do you mean to say that because Wikipedia is not regulated by the Irish government, it isn't necessary to use official names of towns in our country? - (forgot to sign - don't tell me off please) Shaw, Stephen 17:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The official name is used in the article, but the article does not use the official in its title - thats where Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) comes in. Djegan 17:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

In any other case regarding the use of English over Irish in an article, I would probably agree with you. This is not the Irish Language Wikipedia. However, in this case, where specific legislation has been enacted renaming the town, I think it is reasonable to expect the encyclopedia to refer to the town by it's current name, not one which was removed two years ago. Would you object to using the term "An Daingean" in lieu of "Dingle" in the body of the article? Shaw, Stephen 17:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The name used throughout the article should be that used as the article title, unless a different version of the name is required to discribe an attribute. Djegan 17:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

This isn't an issue of using Irish over English or vice-versa. It is about using the current name of a town. Here's an example: When Ireland gained independence, "The United Kingdom of Great Britain" and Ireland was renamed as "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" Were you around then (and were Wikipedia in existance and all that) would you be against changing the name of the article because the former was the name known and used by people for hundreds of years?Shaw, Stephen 17:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually the former was "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland"(???) and in fact it took five years to rename that state. But it is an issue of the most common name as used in English, because that is the standard that wikipedia sets for all article titles. Djegan 17:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

That's what I meant (punctuation) "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland". I'm not trying to refer to that example specifically. My point extends beyond countries. If a company decided to change its name, would you be in favour of changing wikipedia to reflect that or would you insist on using the old name? Shaw, Stephen 17:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I would take each on its merit. Djegan 17:44, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you acknowledge that the town is no longer called Dingle? Shaw, Stephen 17:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure why you persist, I have already made up my mind. Djegan 17:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I've made my mind up too. I wish to refer to An Daingean by its proper name. I thank you for your opinion in this matter. Regards Shaw, Stephen 17:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

President of Ireland FAR

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Apologies regarding Meditation

You may not remember me, but I was your meditator in the meditation case regarding [Northern Ireland]. I, however, was affected by China's ban on Wikipedia. I apoligize for my sudden inactivity and disappearance from Wikipedia, causing the meditation case to end prematurely.

Again, I apologize.

¿Exir?¡Kamalabadi! 10:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:UCD1911.PNG)

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Query

Do you have email enabled? Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 11:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Should be. Djegan 11:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me?

I *wrote* the article myself, took a good while, why the fuck are you removing all of my hard work? I am not impressed.... Duey Finster

This is re: IT Blanchardstown Duey Finster 00:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Apart from my quick reaction I have taken the time to read your long speil on you userpage, and you seriously talk the legs of a giraffe with that stuff, you say Wikipedia is messed up and then don't, I struggled to make sense of what you were actually trying to say, is it for personal reasons? why haven't you left? I thought your confidence seem shattered in Wikipedia and here you are extending the Nazipediaism that probably drove you away, apart from stupid users. On this talk page you have loads of bots complaining of copyrighted images about *you* and then you revert and well cited article to the mess it was in before. I Looked to TCD for guidance on which sections are relevant to a third level institution of this type. As I said on the talk page its not perfect but considerably better than it was. I read the official ITB material then sat down and wrote it, citing relevant sections. Of course some bits are eerily close to the official material but there is only one way you can talk about facilities, plans for the future and other such stuff which *indirectly* quotes. Its is not perfect but it gives the reader the info which I way I believe can negate copyright issues that conflict with official material. If you believe certain sections violate copyright of the college then please mention it on the talk page and do something about it, remove that particular piece, rewrite it but do not remove it as I believe everything I wrote is highly relevant and should not be. --Duey Finster —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dueyfinster (talk • contribs) 00:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Please moderate your comments, or you will be reported for been uncivil. Djegan 01:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Whatever, this is what you are face it. Since my last comment got removed I'm betting this one one last long either, censorship is a dirty business Wikipedia perpetuates with a vengeance. --78.16.57.95 13:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Your quite immature. Djegan 13:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Dom't make me laugh, you blank good content which does not violate copyrights (like the infobox) and you said as much yourself on your userpage..... so now you are saying the complete opposite? Whatever policies you like to quote oe whatever it don't matter, they are written on a wiki page and not worth a grain of salt. Anyway you can have you cake and eat it, all I want now is my user/talk page gone.... --Dueyfinster 13:56, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Good bye. Djegan 13:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Bye —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dueyfinster (talk • contribs) 14:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

State your argument

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Image source problem with Image:Buseireann.png

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"Raidió Teilifís Éireann"

A company name is legally registered. Therefore, it isn't to be translated/mutated except for reference purposes (which are not to be in an infobox Estoy Aquí (Talk | contribs)

does the station have two versions of the name, or is this of academic purpose only Djegan (Talk | contribs)

Well I have seen a while back Raidió Teilifís Éireann being used in print ( can't recall where now ) so it does have 2 names and even you say I know very well "raidió" is an Irish language word..

Is it offically used by RTE or any other official body ? This seems to be very difficult to prove online which is why I left it out of the infobox.

Strange you point out this is a professional encyclopedia but delete a footnote to say there is another spelling of the name. Now where have I seen footnotes before ? Garda40 14:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The organisation does not have two names, but if it is your contention that it does a citation to that effect is required. If their is indeed "another spelling" (or indeed that it can be spelled differently) then provide a citation that it has some manner of official effect. Because anyone could string togetheir the discrete words "raidió" and "teilifís" and "Éireann" to form "Raidió Teilifís Éireann" - but thats just high school knowledge not neccessarily the name of the organisation. Djegan 16:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest that discussion is focused at Talk:Radio Telefís Éireann#Name. Thanks. Djegan 16:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

NI Infobox idea

I'd like to invite you to comment on my thoughts behind a specific set of NI infoboxes. I'm just mulling the idea over on my talk page. Thanks. --Blowdart 12:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Gaelic translations on Wiki Ireland articles.

• Catholic University of Ireland
• National Institute for Higher Education

I'm sorry, but the only citations I can provide you with are in Gaelic. It's the first official language here in the Republic of Ireland and the majority of government funded departments have an official Gaelic name. I also translate Irish place names into Gaelic.

You'll need to find other Gaelic-speakers on Wiki that can verify my translations/citations. Please don't delete all my translations over the past year without consulting other Gaelic-speakers. I've put so much work into it.

You can see on the Republic of Ireland article that Gaelic (Irish) is an official language of the State. Please see the official European Union website: Official Languages of the EU (Irish)

Again, please don't remove all my Gaelic translations. It's an official language here and is still used my many people.

Thank you. Wiki01916 06:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I am not on a "crusade" to remove Irish, but rather querying a very few that I am not convinced on as I come across them. Whilst you have literally translated "National Institute for Higher Education" into Irish the reality is that "An Foras" rather than "Institiúid" was used for the individual institutions. This is what concerns me, that we maybe engaged in original research. Djegan 13:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Came across this - was "Foras" not "Institiúid". Added refs. Also changed style - Irish-language name should be italic, not bold - no? --sony-youth^pléigh 13:31, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Italics are better than bold. Djegan 13:35, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:NFQ-Ireland.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:IFSGreatSeal.png

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Dingledanglers

Hi. You asked for a citation on the use of Dingledanglers over on the Dingle article. So far I've found one printed source but I've certainly seen it many times in other publications as well as heard it from Irish speakers. Unfortunately, both Foinse and Lá Nua seem to have lousy on line archives which are not up to date. Anyway, the written source comes from an article called An Speallaire from Foinse, 4 November 2007, page 11: "Go deimhin cuireann sé olc ar Ó Cuív na laethanta seo má bhíonn sé de dhánaíocht ag éinne tagairt a dhéanamh do na Dingledanglers agus a ról in iad a mhúscailt chun troda ar son a gcearta daonna". I'd appreciate if you could create a link to this in the article. As for Dingly Danglies, I've certainly heard this as well but have decided to remove it until I find an example in print. Thanks. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 10:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

The responsibilty is on the person seeking to have material retained to give an appropriate citation, the responsibility is not on those requesting a citation. Uncited, or inappropriately cited, material maybe removed at any time. WP:VERIFY. Djegan 13:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

The reason I am asking you to do this is that I myself don't know how. I am asking you a favour. You requested an appropriate citation and I gave you one. And I will give you more when I find them. Many thanks for being so polite and helpful to me. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 17:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Have a look around in other articles and WP:VERIFY. Djegan 17:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's definitely a verifiable source but I don't quite see what your point is? An Muimhneach Machnamhach 18:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

My point is as stated above. The responsibility to provide citations and edit them into articles is solely on the person wjo wants to retain material, not on those challenging the material or citations. Djegan 18:56, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Corrib

And by your "where does it say illegal " you indicated you read that article.And in reading it you would have therefore have noticed the small change required to make the article text fit fit the citation .

It is therefore wikilawyering to use that wiki rule as a justification to me when you seemingly had the time and energy to type a message to me but didn't apparently have the time and energy to change the text of the article because you weren't required to change it according to one rule .You seem to have forgotten about IARGarda40 (talk) 18:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Their is absolutely no responsibility whatsoever on me to change the article to correspond with the citation. Editors wishing to maintain material have that sole responsibility. As for WP:IAR "improving or maintaining" the encyclopedia would be just as easy as total removal of the problem material. Djegan (talk) 19:12, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Furthurmore it is not a "small change", its not as if its a trivial spelling or grammar error, its a significant change. You, by your edits, have changed it from "illegal" (implying something absolutely not permitted) to "normally recommend not" (implying mere administrative approval). Thats a whole lot of difference. Djegan (talk) 19:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Gaelic Athletic Association.png

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