Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Talk That Talk (Rihanna song)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:01, 21 September 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Talk That Talk (Rihanna song)[edit]

Talk That Talk (Rihanna song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): — Tomíca(T2ME) 09:39, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because... I think it meets the featured article criteria. I believe the article is detailed enough, precise and shows the main impact the song had on the music. Thanks to everyone who helped me during its building. For all the users who decide to oppose, please provide the issues you found so I can fix them. Cheers! — Tomíca(T2ME) 09:39, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Et3rnal
  • "and has a similar style as Rihanna's 2010 single "Rude Boy"." → replacing the "as" with "to", sounds a bit better.
  • "Although no music video was made for the single, it appeared on several charts worldwide." → this implies that it would have been more successful if it did have a music video, which is probably true, but I don't think should be assumed. I suggest removing the no music video bit, or just moving it, changing it, up to you.
  • StarGate has produced a lot of songs for Rihanna, this is just as an example. — Tomíca(T2ME) 23:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Rihanna asked on Twitter for her fans to recommend what song" → replace "what" with "which".
  • "...collaboration between the two is a success" → replace "is" with "was".
  • "Priya Elan of NME was less enthusiastic and who wrote" → remove "who".
  • In the track listing, the (feat. Jay Z) bit is redundant.
  • Well it's taken from the official credits, that's the reason is there. — Tomíca(T2ME) 23:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Credits are adapted from the liner notes for Talk That Talk. → wouldn't "of" liner notes make more sense.
  • The ARIA certification link appears dead on my end, don't know if it's just me.

Support Just some minor issues, which you can easily address, good job. Et3rnal 22:57, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • [[55th Grammy Awards|2013 ceremony]] → [[2013 Grammy Awards|2013 ceremony]]
  • I don't think Yahoo! Voices can be used as a source, as this particular section of the website is written by random Yahoo! users, not experts.
  • Reference 49 has an error, while reference 50 links to the Billboard R&B chart, not the UK one.
  • [[Norwegian Singles Chart]] → [[VG-lista|Norwegian Singles Chart]]
  • [[Swiss Music Charts|Swiss Singles Chart]] → [[Swiss Hitparade|Swiss Singles Chart]]
  • [[Australian Singles Chart]] → [[ARIA Charts|Australian Singles Chart]]
  • Contemporary hit and Rhythmic radio → Contemporary hit and rhythmic radio

SnapSnap 16:57, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I came across this un-transcluded FAC today and added it at WP:FAC. Maralia (talk) 17:43, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • OMG, I forgot to add it there. Thanks Maralia! — Tomíca(T2ME) 21:16, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Media check - mostly all OK (fair-use, CC, Flickr with no signs of problems). Sources and authors provided. Just 1 cleanup needed:

  • File:TalkThatTalkCover.png - brief statements for NFCC-criterions "replaceable" and "commercial" are missing in the image summary FUR (see other cover FURs for examples of common phrases), aside from that fair-use is OK.
Comments from Cassianto

Background Looks good

Production and release

  • Do we need to link "New York City"?
  • We don't need to link London per WP:OVERLINK
  • Now, I am the last person to know this as this really isnt my type of music so I may be completely wrong but is the "DJ" in Jordan "DJ" Swivel Young correct, or should it be Jordan "DJ Swivel" Young? I cannot imagine that a double barrelled surname would actually be Swivel-Young. If it is just "DJ" then a hyphen should be added between each surname.
  • I believe the Savoy, London has a Wiki page, link?
  • Could we have the year again at the start of the second paragraph as I don't believe the last time we had it was the previous section at the start. I see we give 2012 when we speak of her Twitter message, but I think giving the year at the start of the paragraph is better, but keep 2012 where it is.
  • Done everything except the pre-last one. The Savoy London is a hotel and there is no link to that either to London, Savoy. — Tomíca(T2ME) 11:29, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Savoy Hotel filceolaire (talk) 20:38, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, it's already linked. — Tomíca(T2ME) 23:01, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Composition and lyrical interpretation

  • Check the title at the start, we seem to be missing some closing inverts.

Critical reception

  • Looks good.

Chart performance

  • "After the release of Talk That Talk, the song charted..." – "After the release of Talk That Talk" is redundant IMO. As opposed to before the release?
  • Well, it's kind of important because prior the song was officially released, it had success with only the release of the LP. When the song received release dates, it failed to match the success of the beginning. — Tomíca(T2ME) 11:29, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Following the release of Talk That Talk – Although it is italicised, I think we should differentiate a little bit more from the album and the single. They share the same name so it may become confusing. I would say "The album" perhaps before the title.

Live performances

  • Do we need both "a seven-date and seven-day long"? Could we safely assume that the seven-day long tour had a performance on each of the seven days? This is Rihanna after all, I doubt there was a day where she was sitting in her dressing room saying "No audience tonight again, damn-it!, lets go home" Or, is the fact it's called 777 instrumental in giving this line?

That's it. Comprehensively put together as usual. -- CassiantoTalk 11:11, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – per resolved comments. A nicely put together, comprehensive article which helped me understand a subject which I really had no idea about. --CassiantoTalk 19:53, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from JennKR

*You have some refs with both the newspaper/website cited alone and then some with the corporate publisher (e.g. Billboard is cited with Prometheus Global Media in one instance, and then Billboard alone in another.

  • Well, at my recent FAC's I was told that publishers should be removed because of the repetitiveness. However, Prometheus Global Media is sometimes present because of the {{singlechart}} and there is nothing I can do to remove it from there. — Tomíca(T2ME) 23:11, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    That makes sense (I thought you had manually cited it)! —JennKR | ☎ 23:17, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*Unlink "Pisa" in the Jay-Z lyrics quote per WP:LINKSTYLE.

  • The same for the Time magazine quote from Claire Suddath (you could paraphrase it alternatively).
  • Are you talking about double entendre? I think that the statement is paraphrased and the term should be linked because it's kind of uncommon. — Tomíca(T2ME) 23:11, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nope, I was talking about the lyrical composition quote, but it isn't quoted anyway, so that's fine! —JennKR | ☎ 23:17, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Very few issues. The prose is secure and concise. Great job! —JennKR | ☎ 23:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I can see that most of the sources are lack of publisher. Please add. — HĐ (talk) 04:55, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • @HĐ:, the publishers of the references are not necessary and are repetitive. That's the reason they are not included, nothing wrong with that. — Tomíca(T2ME) 20:09, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Good work! — HĐ (talk) 04:16, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Wikipedian Penguin: This is close to being ready, but needs some tweaks and fixes here and there to be an FA.

  • No pressure, but you might want to link CD single in the lead.
  • "'Talk That Talk' is a hip hop song performed with R&B beats, rough drums, unrefined synths and has a similar style to Rihanna's 2010 single 'Rude Boy'."—remove "performed", add "and" after "drums" (removing the comma) and add a comma after "synths".
  • "who praised its composition and Rihanna and Jay Z's collaboration."—perhaps "who praised its composition and Rihanna's collaboration with Jay-Z" so we can remove one of the "and"s. Also, to praise the "composition" seems a bit awkward because that's the whole song in general. Do you mean the sound, music, etc.?
  • You mention the title of the song five times in the lead. Care to reduce that?
  • Quoting Rihanna's tweet seems redundant (and it looks silly hehe).
  • "They had previously produced Rihanna's 2010 hit singles 'Only Girl (In the World)' and 'What's My Name?' for her fifth album Loud."—remove "previously".
  • "In an interview with the Norwegian website 730.no..."—for
  • "Additional recording of the song was done at Room 538 in Sofitel Paris Le Faubourg and Room 526 in the Savoy London."—I don't think the room numbers are important. They seem trivial to me.
  • "Eriksen and Hermansen performed the song's instrumentation..."—to perform instrumentation seems a bit strange to me. Maybe "record"?
  • "Rihanna asked on Twitter for her fans to recommend which song from Talk That Talk should be released as the third single." → "Rihanna asked her fans on Twitter to recommend a song from Talk That Talk for release as the third single."
  • In the next sentence, I'd say "the title track" instead of the song's title itself to avoid repetition. And again, the tweet isn't that useful.
  • "...a black and white image in which Rihanna is dressed in punk clothes and crouches against a wall."—hyphens in "black-and-white".
  • What makes PopCrush a high quality reliable source?
  • "...including a strange sexual reference that Claire Suddath..."—remove "strange".
  • Avoid linking inside quotations as per MOS:QUOTE.
  • "Sputnikmusic's Steve M. felt that it can be a major hit on radio partly because of Jay Z's guest rap."—past tense "could"
  • "MTV News' Jocelyn Vena called it "big and hard with just enough brightness" and felt that the song discusses sexual intercourse more appropriately than 'Cockiness (Love It)'."—just a suggestion, but consider briefly discussing some of the "sexual" lyrics in "Cockiness"?
  • I think the Critical reception could benefit from some transitions to make the text more cohesive. Right now it's just (X of Y magazine said, A of B magazine said, etc.). Use transitions like "On the critical side" and "However" talk more about the general consensus: what aspects were praised/criticized in general? More coming. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 23:24, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe I have done all of the above issues. For the last one, I read the critical reception section and I think it flaws perfectly, the thing is there is only one negative review, the rest is all positive, I added there On the critical side, so I hope it's fine. Feel free the check everything and thanks for commenting. — Tomíca(T2ME) 06:49, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "—a black-and-white image in which Rihanna is dressed in punk clothes and crouches against a wall."—nothing about punk clothes in the source provided.
  • "She also had a toothpick between her teeth, and her hair was styled in big curls and a bandana."—unsupported by source
  • "...the latter sees Rihanna expressing her desire for having sex..." → "...in the latter, Rihanna expresses her desire to have sex..."
  • "The single was nominated in the category of [for] Best Rap/Sung Collaboration for [at] the 55th [2013] Grammy Awards, which was held on February 10, 2013, at the Staples Center in Los Angeles."—don't think the exact date and location of the awards show is relevant.
  • "However, it lost to "No Church in the Wild" (2012) by Jay Z and Kanye West featuring Frank Ocean and The-Dream."—I don't think "however" is necessary here, to be honest.
  • "After the release of Talk That Talk, the song charted in many countries owing to strong digital sales."—this can get confusing, even with italics. Suggest "the album".
  • "It debuted and peaked at number 31 on the US Billboard Hot 100 and sold 73,000 digital copies in its first week, which was the highest debut on the chart."—I don't think so. Number 31 and only (relatively speaking) 73 grand copies, the highest debut?
  • "In the week of February 4, 2012, "Talk That Talk" re-entered the chart at number 100 and rose to number 94."—the "rose to number 94" part is so trivial.
  • "The song also appeared on the R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart at number 63 for the issue dated January 28."—in the issue dated...
  • "It reached a peak of number 12 and stayed on the chart for 21 total weeks."—remove "total".
  • "Following the release of the album, the song debuted in South Korea on the Gaon International Chart at number 22 on sales of 14,207 digital copies."—"on sales of"?
  • Be consistent on whether chart positions are written as figures or words.
  • "Rihanna and Jay Z performed "Talk That Talk" for the first time together at the 2012 BBC Radio 1's Hackney Weekend in London."—source doesn't say for the first time. In fact, they talk about the SNL performance being a collab.
  • Replaced source. — Tomíca(T2ME) 12:56, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    The new link still does not support that this was their first time performing the song together. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 22:13, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed it. — Tomíca(T2ME) 22:19, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Year-end chart table needs formatting for plain row headers.
  • What makes Popdust a high quality reliable source? —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 00:11, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • One last comment: what are "rough drums" supposed to be?
  • I quoted directly from source now as "hard drums". — Tomíca(T2ME) 10:41, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support—I did some prose work on this shortly prior to its nomination and am ready to say it is of FA quality, with tight and clear prose, citation formatting meticulously done and comprehensive information. I've checked a few sources at random for paraphrasing and verifiability and apart from the ones that I've mentioned above (which have been taken care of), they seem to pass muster. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 22:31, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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