Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 December 22

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December 22

Latin pronunciation In dulci jubilo

I have heard carol singers with lots of variations on the pronunciation of dulci; some say dulkee, others dulchee and yet others dulsee. Which is correct Latin pronunciation? Would it have varied depending on the date of the Latin? -- Q Chris (talk) 16:01, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

"Dulkee" would have been classical Latin, but since this is a medieval text in Church Latin, such a pronunciation would be a rather ahistoric affectation. Medieval Latin (and modern traditional ecclesiastic Latin usage) has various pronunciations for the soft c depending on your native language: Italian speakers would have had "dulchee", French speakers presumably "dulsee", German speakers "dultsee". Since this song comes from a German background and has a half German text, the German pronunciation "dultsee" would probably be most appropriate. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:22, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Dulchee is the standard ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation. I'd go with the Anglo/-French- dulsee myself as being subjectively more pleasant. μηδείς (talk) 16:29, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

That would put you somewhere between "bad Latin" and "bad Spanish" linguistically. Sai Weng (talk) 20:45, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

No, Spanish would be dulthee. Of course, the qualification of "subjectively" more pleasant implies the contrast objectively incorrect. 22:49, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

I have to endorse Future Perfect's analysis. The use of Italian pronunciation (dulchee) for Church Latin outside of Italy is a modern development. In medieval Germany, the pronunciation would have been dultsee (as it still often is in Germany today). Marco polo (talk) 22:51, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

"Dulchee" is pretty much a standard amongst English cathedral choirs and many of them have been about for a few centuries. Alansplodge (talk) 23:13, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

"Dulchee" is what my American choir directors taught as well. Rmhermen (talk) 02:24, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, oddly enough, dulchee is the ecclesiastical standard.

My brother-in-law requested a course in Latin for his children as his Christmas gift, and I was forced to choose between the ch ecclesiastical and the k classical versions of the companion CD. μηδείς (talk) 03:16, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

For a few centuries, Alansplodge, but only a few. When we sang the Byrd four-part mass a couple of years ago, we carefully used what we were told was English Tudor-period Latin pronunciation, which would have had /dʊlsi/ not /dʊltʃi/.

• So, how are you pronouncing the j in jubilo? μηδείς (talk) 16:28, 25 December 2013 (UTC)