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March 9[edit]

Fighter pilot training[edit]

This question is inspired by the ongoing machinations to transfer former Soviet MIG-29 fighter planes from Poland to Ukraine. The Gloster Meteor was the first Allied jet in WW2. Jet engine designer Stanley Hooker wrote in his autobiography Not Much of an Engineer,

I remember seeing the first Meteor at the RAE being handed over to an operational squadron. The young fighter-pilot flew in on a Spitfire, was led over to the cockpit of the Meteor, and briefed for a few minutes, whereupon he climbed into this enormous new twin-engined aircraft with a radically new type of engine, and took off to the war! It was as undramatic as that, and I marvelled at the cool, calm competence of this young man.

So just how big a deal is it now, to bring a pilot up to speed in a new type of plane? Thanks.

Based on a PBS documentary I saw a few days ago on the Boeing 737 MAX groundings, I would suggest it could be a very big deal. Pilots weren't informed about MCAS and so didn't know how to react when problems occurred. --TrogWoolley (talk) 11:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By and large, under normal conditions (even normal combat conditions), planes are planes. If a pilot is experienced at a similar aircraft (especially if they've flown other Soviet fighters, they tended to be pretty similar in terms of cockpit layout), they should have no problem flying a MiG-29 after a short period of retraining. Under emergency conditions, however, it's often another story (as the 737 MAX incidents mentioned above show). Pilots are issued emergency action checklists and are expected to memorize and practice them, but even in peacetime that can be neglected. 96.232.39.129 (talk) 19:43, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Added: if Poland temporarily gives up most of its planes, does that make it a good time for Russia to invade Poland? Or maybe we better not give them ideas. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:C115 (talk) 21:45, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Poland is a member of NATO, so that would be very bad for the underperforming Russian army. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:05, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I have to wonder how that would turn out.[1] Really though, I was mostly asking about the issues of juggling MIG's to Ukraine instead of just sending them F16's or whatever. Is it that hard for the pilots to switch? 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:C115 (talk) 22:51, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, yeah. Aerial combat requires split-second reactions. Trying to figure out where the control is that you're looking for is just suicidal. Plus the jet handles differently and has different capabilities, and it's all labeled in a foreign language! Clarityfiend (talk) 03:16, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the ordnance and ammo are almost certainly incompatible. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:19, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

NATO will not want a NATO jet with top-secret communication stuff to fall into enemy hands. That is also an issue with the Polish converted MIGs, but the added NATO stuff is possibly easier to dismount and take out. I suppose a major training issue is the operation of the armament, which has become vastly more complicated since the days of WWII. --Lambiam 06:45, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They won't need to get up to speed as the Uranian Air Force already operates Mig-29s. Fgf10 (talk) 07:40, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A respectful don't ask, don't tell policy applied to Αφροδίτη Ουράνια suggests you mean the Ukranian Air Force. Philvoids (talk) 11:49, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Philvoids: I don't think so. I suppose they meant Ukrainian instead. :) CiaPan (talk) 12:23, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@CiaPan: Thank you for correction. Let my error serve as a lesson to all never to put in where one should not putin. Philvoids (talk) 13:06, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At least we know the Uranian people have hearts and souls.^[2] --Lambiam 16:44, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Russia has attacked Uranus too?! Clarityfiend (talk) 20:46, 9 March 2022 (UTC) [reply]

^{Have patience, comrade. Philvoids (talk) 20:49, 10 March 2022 (UTC)}[reply]

Watch your back! Uranus could come under attack. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:38, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's not only the pilots, but the ground crew have to learn how to maintain and repair a totally different and very complex aircraft. All of the Ukrainians' spare parts and probably many of their tools would become useless. By way of a reference, this USAF fighter wing took a whole year to convert from the F-16 to the F-15. Alansplodge (talk) 21:30, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]