Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers

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2 Juan Hidalgos[edit]

Was just wondering if we can do better here. Neither are refered to in this way, and the first is evidently primary. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:00, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not an expert (by any means) on Spanish names, but if the full names are actually different, why are the present titles a problem? The DAB page is there for anyone who searches for the short name. P.S. It may be better to post to WP:CM as this project is no longer active. Kleinzach 00:13, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Mendelssohn hatnote.[edit]

If there is anyone still alive here, they may be interested in looking at this. Best, --Smerus (talk) 13:40, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

RfC on Chopin's nationality[edit]

There's an ongoing RFC regarding the nationality of Chopin. The discussion is at Talk:Frédéric Chopin#RfC: Chopin's nationality. Input from project members would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:13, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


Please note here an edit war being pursued by an editor who has a strong desire to add details of a concert by a Finnish rock band.--Smerus (talk) 14:07, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Free music on Wikipedia[edit]

Hi, I just wanted to let you know that there's a ton of free music available on Wikipedia here. Maybe it would be a good idea to somehow put a template at all the talk pages of composer articles, mentioning this resource? I'm not sure how to do that though. All articles in the "living person" category automatically are templated with a BLP notice, so it should be possible. Any thoughts?Anythingyouwant (talk) 16:02, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Frédéric Chopin - peer review[edit]

I've asked for a peer review of the article because its seems to risk at present gettng bogged down in side issues and needs a lot of work on some major aspects. Comments could help develop a consensus to assist editors concentration on the most important aspects. All opinions welcomed. Thanks, --Smerus (talk) 15:34, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Frédéric Chopin - GA Nomination/discussion.[edit]

Frédéric Chopin is currently a good article nominee - any one who wishes to start/contribute to the diuscussion is welcome to do so.--Smerus (talk) 13:09, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Hermann Haller[edit]

Is there anyone who can help me to translate this page from German to English? I wrote this page in German a couple of years ago. Haller was a very good composer, he studied with Nadia Boulanger. --Cygnebleu (talk) 19:47, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

the Younger/Elder[edit]

Shouldn't "the Younger/Elder" be consistently capitalised when part of a name? Compare the examples listed at Younger. Contrast List of Renaissance composers. I have corrected two instances already, but there are also some bluelinks which need to be moved and the problem seems widespread around Wikipedia. Perhaps a bot could be employed to replace all instances of "the younger" and "the elder" with "the Younger" and "the Elder"? What do you think? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 14:41, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Priscilla McLean[edit]

Greetings WikiProject Composers, I was wondering if I might request some eyes over at Priscilla McLean. I think the subject's notability could be better presented. I also think some of her work is mashed into the Life section where it could probably go into a separate section about her career. I regret that I don't know much about musicians of this type. A contributor there is interested in improving the article, but there might be a conflict of interest, and I've had to remove some effusive language from the article. Rather than be discouraging, I thought I could ask a related WikiProject to contribute a few eyes. Thanks all! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:54, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I have had one eye half-open on her article (as well as that of her husband, Barton McLean) for some time now. So far, I have restrained my editorial hand because, as you note, there is a fairly active editor on both articles who may have a COI, but is evidently for that same reason very well-informed. Perhaps the time has come to be a little more assertive.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 03:05, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Cleanup needed on List of string quartet composers[edit]

I was just quickly browsing this list (to see if the Jennifer Higdon Quartets were mentioned and noticed that many of entries have what appear to be attempts at setting up references but which are instead external links inside the list proper, with some odd wording, examples can be seen below:

  • Roberto Gerhard (1896–1970): two string quartets (1950–55; 1960–62) [1]. Three earlier quartets at least are lost.
  • Alexandre Tansman (1897–1986): wrote nine (one lost, replaced by Triptych) ([2] for most of that, Fanfare review of a recording for the rest)

I think that a thorough clean up of the entries and referencing is needed. Graham1973 (talk) 02:40, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

No infobox for composers?[edit]

While Clara Schumann has an infobox her husband Robert Schumann does not; neither do Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Johannes Brahms or Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky.

  • If there is an infobox for composers, please send me the link.
  • If there isn't, is there a reason why not?
  • If it's an oversight, would somebody with more wiki-programming savvy than me {I know: I} like to create a decent one?

Who's game? Cheers! Shir-El too 12:54, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

User:Shir-El too, yes there is lots of discussion in the archives at WP Classical music. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:12, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
See, e.g.,here for detailed, and often heated, discussions on the topic....--Smerus (talk) 19:45, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! Will check it out. Have a Good One! Shir-El too 06:51, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Russian American composer BLP[edit]

I started this as a stub after the release of the Viola Concerto & Violin Concerto. But not at all sure what is happening here. Can someone look in please. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:10, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

  • Well, it looks like Igor Raykhelson or a good impersonator of him has rewritten the article. But WP has strict rules about people writing their own bios (WP:AUTO) which you could cite in heavily editing or even reverting the present vesrion. This version has no citations and a lot of WP:PEACOCK and thus could in any case be edited to deal with these problems appropriately - although you might get more of the same from IR or his persona......--Smerus (talk) 19:38, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
It looks to me like the October 2013 IP edit was either vandalism or an attempt to hijack the article for another individual of the same name. The recent IP edit is then perhaps our subject attempting to reclaim the article for himself. The last good version seems to be from November 2012, when it was referenced and neutral in tone, so I'll revert to this one and see what happens. --Deskford (talk) 20:07, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Might it not be a good idea to contact the person/persona in question and ask them what/why? There may be an innocent/ignorant reason for it, and this way the person knows a) their actions are not appreciated and b) they are being monitored. Cheers! Shir-El too 06:50, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Good point – it probably would have been advisable to attempt communication, though communication with IP editors is often difficult. Perhaps it's too late now? --Deskford (talk) 00:38, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Michael Berkeley[edit]

I notice that the article on composer Michael Berkeley has been moved to Michael Berkeley, Baron Berkeley of Knighton. Is this some exception to the rule that we don't generally include honorific titles in article names, or was this an inappropriate move? --Deskford (talk) 00:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

It is incorrect, per WP:COMMONNAME, and should be reverted.--Smerus (talk) 09:00, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
I couldn't fix this myself, so admin intervention is needed. Toccata quarta (talk) 14:20, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and done it. Antandrus (talk) 16:50, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Antandrus, or any other admin, could you please also move Talk:Michael Berkeley, Baron Berkeley of Knighton to Talk:Michael Berkeley. --Deskford (talk) 18:29, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
That's odd, I was sure I had selected that option. Oh well -- it's done now. Antandrus (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks all! For similar reasons, I suspect Gerald Tyrwhitt-Wilson, 14th Baron Berners probably ought to be moved to Lord Berners, but I can't move it due to article histories. --Deskford (talk) 18:03, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Done. Antandrus (talk) 22:05, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks again! --Deskford (talk) 00:04, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Popular pages tool update[edit]

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Robert Ashley[edit]

An IP editor edited Robert Ashley to indicate that he had died, with only a Twitter post as source. I've no reason to doubt – the tweeter appears reputable – but I can't find any mentions in any reliable news reports. Maybe it hasn't been officially announced yet. I've reverted for now, but any extra pairs of eyes on this article would be useful over the next few days. --Deskford (talk) 05:33, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

See e.g. here - Lebrecht is a generally reliable source.--Smerus (talk) 10:29, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Someone later added a link to the blog of Ashley's biographer, Kyle Gann [3]. (Like Lebrecht's, its an ArtsJournal blog). I think that's authoritative enough for now. As for Lebrecht, I would never believe anything he writes without a second source to corroborate it. Voceditenore (talk) 11:09, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I did say 'generally'..... :-} --Smerus (talk) 11:14, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Yep. :). This from On An Overgrown Path and the accompanying comments pretty much sum up the chap, even has one from me, aka "anonymous". Voceditenore (talk) 11:30, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, both! That's a nice piece by Kyle Gann. Other news sources have started to report his death, mostly quoting the Gann piece. --Deskford (talk) 14:11, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Is Marty Cooper notable?[edit]

This seems marginal, so I'm asking for help: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Martin Cooper. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 00:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Wagner again[edit]

I refer to the discussion at Talk:Richard_Wagner - 'Antisemitism in Wagner's writings'. An editor, DvUSR, is determined to unreasonably (in my opinion) add material relating to Wagner's anti-Semitism to the article. S/He I think seriously overstates the influence of Wagner on the anti-Jewish sentiments of his period, and insists on writing about Wagner's attitude to 'religious purity' (whatever that may mean). S/He seems to be working from a point that (to quote him/her) the article "unacceptably deëmphasizes the significance (and vitriol) of Wagner's writing," and notes that "The impression given by the article is of a common sort of prejudice, commonly shared among 19th century Germans" (which is indeed the opinion of vrtually all writers about Wagner). My opinion and that of another editor is that W's anti-Semitism is appropriately covered in the article, and to stress it further is WP:NNPOV. A third party has suggested referring the matter here, so the opinions of others would be welcomed. Thanks,--Smerus (talk) 14:14, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I'll just add that the claim that "...another editor [has the opinion] that W's anti-Semitism is appropriately covered in the [earlier version of] the article" is not correct: the editor in question, Michael Bednarek (talk), objected specifically to the inclusion of an additional reference to "Judaism in Music," and I agreed. Smerus and I need help arbitrating a different dispute, which centers on whether Wagner merely reflected the antisemitism of his day in Germany, or contributed to it (bearing in mind that Wagner was a man of considerable social stature --can you tell which side I argued for?). There is also disagreement about the wording in the sentence preceding the claim that Wagner had many Jewish friends. I have worked to justify and refine my points with references and argument (and quotations, when requested, as on "religious purity" -- see Talk:Richard_Wagner) after some initial boldness, but to no avail. To echo my companion in wikipedia-dispute, any help is much appreciated! Thanks, DvUSR (talk) 15:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for narrowing the area of discussion. We are now down to the question of "whether Wagner merely reflected the antisemitism of his day in Germany, or contributed to it (bearing in mind that Wagner was a man of considerable social stature)". However, in considering this issue, it is not merely to be 'borne in mind' by Wikipedia contributors whether or not "Wagner was a man of considerable social stature", but rather whether there is a) any citeable reference that this was the case, and b) any citeable evidence that if this was the case (or otherwise) Wagner had any substantial impact on the development of anti-Semitic ideas during his lifetime. This is the essence of WP:V - I am not sure whether DvUSR has grasped it.
DvUSR has not produced any references to substantiate either of these assertions. Indeed as pointed out by User:Stfg (at Talk:Richard_Wagner) the Poliakov quote provided by DvUSR " seems to say more about Poliakov's reading of the relationship between Wotan and the Christian God than it says about Wagner's views, much less about his influence." I believe this quote is not in fact from Poliakov, but is cited by the latter from some essay by Wagner himself, although DvUSR has not made this clear - but in any case I would go further - it in fact says nothing about Wagner's views on Jews or influence on anti-Semitic views of others. Actually it is entirely irrelevant to the matters at hand.
Every major modern source about Wagner, including those most highly critical of his anti-Jewish writings, points out that his anti-Semitic views were in line with those propounded by many of his contemporaries and derived from a long tradition. To cite only some of the sources given in the article references, read the works of Katz, Newman, Deathridge (2008), Conway, and Weiner. Moreover, see 'Fischer, Jens Malte (2000). Richard Wagners 'Das Judentum in der Musik' . Frankfurt: Insel Verlag . ISBN 978-3-458-34317-2'; which points out that the original edition of 'Judaism in Music' was in a magazine with a circulation of only 1500-2000 readers, that the second edition of 1869 was scorned by Wagner's associates (including Liszt) and that the essay was rarely reprinted.
There is no evidence, in fact, that Wagner was a "a man of considerable social stature" whose opinions carred any wieght with the general population, or that he was major force in the contemporary anti-Semitism of German speaking lands; and certainly his writings had a minute effect on the population compared with the activities of Adolf Stoecker and others (with which, incidentally, Wagner refused to associate himself). For these reasons the Wikipedia article on Wagner should be reverted to its former status unless convincing, and referenced, counter-arguments can be produced against the above. Thank you. ---Smerus (talk) 07:58, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
I shall have more to add when I have more time, but as a partial reply I would say a few things. First, the quote I provide in the talk page is of course from Wagner himself (hence the note to check Poliakov for the citation), and its purpose was to support the edit's reference to Wagner's views on racial purity. Next, citing entire books from the article does not provide support for the claim that Wagner's vitriolic antisemitism, ready to hand in the mentioned 'Judaism in Music', is fully commensurate with his countrymen, and did not "contribute" (the word from the edit) to them. Of course whether Wagner's views had some basis in his surrounding social context is not the issue, but rather whether he in any way contributed to antisemitism in that social context. I find the claim that Wagner's opinions carried no weight with the general population incredible (and note that the claim of "contribution" is weak). Finally, this dispute is over a (now heavily refined) one sentence edit of mine, and should be viewed in the context of the sentence that follows it, which emphasizes Wagner's "many Jewish friends." --DvUSR 16:08, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
As your quote is from Wagner, it would be helpful to give the actual source, (from which essay?) rather than refer to it at second hand. If the quote merely serves to show that Wagner had views on racial purity, it repeats what is said elsewhere in the article, and it says nothing about his influence on others, which is the essence of this discussion. The books I have cited explain exactly why Wagner was repeating received views, rather than exerting any such influence, and I am afraid you cannot simply dismiss them because you disagree with them. It is by no means incredible that the opinions of an opera composer known to only a few of his contemporaries (remember this was in the days before broadcasting) should have had little or on effect on those of his countrymen; and the fact that you find it 'incredible' is WP:OR, your own opinion and not relevant to Wikipedia. You are the person who has asserted that Wagner influenced his countrymen, and you should therefore provide evidence for this or desist. The diagreement may be about one sentence, but it is one sentence which gives an inaccurate and extremely misleading representation of Wagner's role in the history of anti-Semitism. If you cannot provide evidence for your assertions, you should give way gracefully. Please read carefully WP:V.--Smerus (talk) 08:58, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
And here, just to make sure that DvUSR gets the point, is something of what the authorities actually write (sources as per the article) - there are very many more examples I could cite:

'[Wagner's] ideas took on connotations that were already grounded in the repertoire of racist, xenophobic, misogynist and homphobic inagery central to his age.' Weiner (1997) p. 11.

'We thus have philological proof that Wagner's anti-Jewish invective drew upon the sources available to him, although it stemmed from private motives.' Katz (1986), p. 18

'The readership of [the first edition of Judaism in Music] was in any case relatively small - it cannot have been more than a couple of thousand - and of its readers, few can have empathised with, or cared one way or the other about, Wagner's arguments.' Conway (2013), p. 264.

Both Vaszonyi (2010) pp. 90-5 and Conway (2012) pp. 258-264 illustrate clearly how Wagner 'lifted' his many of his ideas about Jews from Heinrich Laube and Theodor Uhlig. Amongst the major books dealing with anti-Semitism in the 19th century which do not even mention Wagner in passing, so irrelevant was he to the topic, are Hannah Arendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism', and Julius Carlebach's 'Karl Marx and the Radical Critique of Judaism' (1978).
I hope I have made my point, but my reservoirs of citation are by no means exhausted :-).
Best, --Smerus (talk) 14:36, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Category for films by composer[edit]

Perhaps Category:Film scores by composer was intended for articles about film scores, but its subcats currently seem to be used mainly for films categorised by the composer who scored them. I recently created Category:Soundtracks by composer which is now used for film score (soundtrack) albums.

Please see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 April 24#Category:Compositions by Rahul Dev Burman for a suggestion to rename the "Film scores by composer " categories to e.g. "Films scored by". – Fayenatic London 13:02, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Category:Film scores by composer looks to me as if it's well identified, though I've added {{container category}} to it. I don't think it needs renaming. For a moment there, I was confused, thinking that yours was going to duplicate it. Would it be a good idea to rename it as Category:Soundtrack albums by composer, to save other people a similar confusion? --Stfg (talk) 13:56, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Dab for "Smith"[edit]

Father Smith is easy to find thanks to a redirect, but I was curious about how the dab page list of people with surname Smith might be organized: it's a bit of a horror, with separate pages for Jeff and Geoff as well as Geoffrey (the first includes some Jeffersons too). I started User:Sparafucil/Sandbox/Musicians named Smith but it might not be too useful to someone who doesn't know a first name unless it's sorted by genre as well as date. Who knew there were (music composer)s as well as (composer)s! I think a tree like composers/classical-jazz-pop and performers/""" might work but welcome suggestions. I could use help too in deciding whether persons who might have dabbled in music actually achieved notability in the field: see Talk:Harry B. Smith for example. Sparafucil (talk) 20:35, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

By an odd coincidence I came here, not having read your post but having just discovered that we have articles on Geoff Smith (British musician) and Geoff Smith (music composer) – these two seem not ideally disambiguated, both being British musicians and both composers. I was going to ask for opinions on how these should better be named, but now seeing your post this could be just part of a bigger mess. --Deskford (talk) 23:45, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Wow.GS (microtonal composer) and GS (minimalist composer)? Or GS (dulcimerist) and GS (songwriter)? Geoff Smith (50-something-year-old composer) would just be kicking ambiguity down the road a bit; maybe we ought to research middle initials ;-) Sparafucil (talk) 08:20, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride 2014[edit]

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride 2014, a campaign to create and improve LGBT-related content at Wikipedia and its sister projects. The campaign will take place throughout the month of June, culminating with a multinational edit-a-thon on June 21. Meetups are being held in some cities, or you can participate remotely. All constructive edits are welcome in order to contribute to Wikipedia's mission of providing quality, accurate information. Articles related to LGBT composers may be of particular interest. You can also upload LGBT-related images by participating in Wikimedia Commons' LGBT-related photo challenge. You are encouraged to share the results of your work here. Happy editing! --Another Believer (Talk) 19:08, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Ofer Ben-Amots[edit]

Never heard of him. No reviews. No known compositions. No performances by major ensembles or orchestras.

Is this guy for real? AFD? --Ravpapa (talk) 19:10, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Possibly just about notable enough for an article, but I don't think he merits the recent addition to the Jewish music article. --Deskford (talk) 19:35, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
There's also this article - The Dybbuk: Between Two Worlds - which I rather doubt counts under WP:NOTABLE (2 or 3 performances in Houston in 2009, apparently, and the score self-published by the composer).--Smerus (talk) 09:06, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Composers At Wikimania 2014[edit]

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 15:58, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Living people on EN wiki who are dead on other wikis[edit]

The following individuals who are in the scope of this project are showing to be alive on the English wiki, but deceased on another language wiki:

  1. Ivan Marinov (composer): bg:Починали през 2003 година
  2. Jan Håkan Åberg: fi:Vuonna 2012 kuolleet / sv:Avlidna 2012
  3. Maurice El Mediouni: ar:وفيات 2012

Please help to find reliable sources to confirm if these individuals are alive or dead, or correct any mis-categorization on the relevant foreign-language article(s). Please see WP:LIVINGDEAD for more info and raise any issues on the talkpage. Thanks. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:04, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


I've initiated a peer review with the intention of raising this article to FA. All comments welcomed.--Smerus (talk) 19:55, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Ján Zimmer[edit]

I see that our article on composer Ján Zimmer has recently been moved to Jan Zimmer. I'm not sure I understand the rationale, but I thought I'd ask for opinions here rather than just trying to move it back. --Deskford (talk) 21:17, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

The rationale is weak, since there would be a redirect either way, and á is easy to type if you know the trick (use the AltGr key). Grove online calls him Ján, but the Oxford Dictionary of Music calls him Jan. Google books gets hits for both forms. I don't think it's a big deal. --Stfg (talk) 21:39, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Ján Zimmer is correct, as he was Slovak. Grove has it right, as well as the website of Music Centre Slovakia, one of the most reputable sources covering Slovak music. We should not distort the name just because "few people know how to key in "á"". --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 05:24, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
I moved it back. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:06, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks everyone! Looking more closely I see that the article is only a few days old, and the editor who moved it is the same editor who created the article, so all credit to him, even if we disagree with the move! --Deskford (talk) 20:26, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
I invited him over here, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:06, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Felix Mendelssohn[edit]

An editor is insistent on including in Felix Mendelssohn the section 'Ancestry', a table which they have inserted at the end of the article before the notes and references. This lists three generations for Mendelssohn's ancestors (where known) and is not sourced or referenced. The more significant of these ancestors are anyway mentioned in the article. A number of others a red linked, although it is not clear whether the editor concerned is going to create articles for them, or whether indeed there is any claim for them to be they are WP:NOTABLE in their own right. In any case, there already references in the article to the existing articles Mendelssohn family and Itzig family (the families of Felix's parents). As table is both superfluous in itself, and serves no purpose in the article, I am in favour of removing it, but would welcome the opinions of other editors. Thanks, --Smerus (talk) 17:31, 11 July 2014 (UTC)