Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of marches composed by John Philip Sousa/archive1

List of marches composed by John Philip Sousa

List of marches composed by John Philip Sousa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/List of marches composed by John Philip Sousa/archive1

Nominator(s): Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 08:30, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because it is a comprehensive list which contains almost everything related to the topic, including title and year of composition, brief description, audio files and images. It was originally a redirect page, redirecting to List of compositions by John Philip Sousa, but I think the topic deserved its separate list. It is a long list consisting of 136 marches Sousa composed. Marches and description is suitably cited. Appreciate any feedback. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 08:30, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Aoba47

Resolved comments from Aoba47 (talk) 03:26, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

;Comments I received a request on my talk page to help with this FLC. While I have done work on music articles and lists, this is outside of my comfort zone, but hopefully, that will help to provide an outside perspective. My comments are below: I would link melody and operetta in this part, such as melodies and operettas to aid readers who may be unfamiliar with these terms. I have rather confused by this sentence: However, only those compositions that were initially transformed as marches from other compositions are mentioned. I am assuming it is intended to clarify what compositions made this list and why others did not. I just find it a strange thing to put in the lead, since it breaks away from Sousa to talk about Wikipedia, and I think this would work better as an endnote. I would link United States presidential inaugural balls in this part, performed at the inaugural balls of President. For this part, He is known as "The March King"., could you clarify who knew him as this (and if possible who gave him this name)? I would combine the third paragraph with the second as I do not really see a need for a one-sentence paragraph. For this part, "Library of Congress", his last march, unfinished, I think it would actually read better as his last march, "Library of Congress", unfinished. For the entries without an audio sample, is there a reason? Are they just not played often so finding a suitable audio sample is difficult? In the table, the marches' titles should be in quotation marks. I would add more context for this image caption, Sousa in 1929. This image caption, Sousa conducting the band at White House in 1930., should not have a period as it is not a full sentence. Avoid putting words in all caps for the citation titles (example of this are citations 197 and 198). Even if the original source does this, it should still not be done on here. For the Bierley book, I would capitalize "Works". It is not done like this in the source, but I think it should be capitalized regardless. I hope my comments are at least somewhat helpful. I have focused on the prose and I will leave the sources and images to another reviewer. I hope you have a great week! Aoba47 (talk) 21:29, 15 June 2021 (UTC) Hi @Aoba47: Thanks for your comments, which were really helpful. I have made the changes in this edit. "For the entries without an audio sample, is there a reason? Are they just not played often so finding a suitable audio sample is difficult?" — Yes, all the audio files are taken from U.S. Marine Band's "The Complete Marches of John Philip Sousa" section, but they have skipped some unpopular marches, so it is difficult to find a audio sample. Would appreciate your feedback. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 02:47, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for responding to everything. I support the list for promotion. Best of luck with this FLC! Aoba47 (talk) 03:26, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments from ChrisTheDude

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:51, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

;Comments "A British band journalist remarked Sousa as "The March King", upon his comparison with "The Waltz King"" => "A British band journalist named Sousa "The March King", in comparison to "The Waltz King"" "Only those compositions that were initially transformed as marches from other compositions are mentioned in the list." - I don't get this. It suggests that every single entry on this list was transformed from another form, but earlier you said that only "a few" of his marches were derived from other compositions. Am I missing something here? Titles starting with "The" should sort based on the next word in the title "This march was composed and dedicated to Milton Nobles" => "This march was dedicated to Milton Nobles" "The hymn "In the sweet, bye and bye"" => "The hymn In the Sweet By-and-By" "a previous piece of which that he composed" => "a previous piece of which he composed" "but was that changed to "The Federal"" => "but that was changed to "The Federal"" Note against "U.S. Field Artillery" is missing a full stop at the end "but however, that title was crossed at marches' music manuscript" => "but that title was crossed out on the march's music manuscript" "He dedicated it to U.S. Navy was named after the U.S. Navy's emblem" => "He dedicated it to the U.S. Navy and it was named after the U.S. Navy's emblem" ""obles of the Mystic Shrine "was composed " - the N is missing, and the space should be after the closing quote mark, not before ""The Gridiron Club" was composed in The version of march" - part of the first sentence seems to be missing Madison Square Garden should have a capital on every word ""Daughter of Teas" was composed" - missing the X "Sousa's another march" => "another of Sousa's marches" "He composed various other melodies found in his suited and operettas" - suites, not suited "Five of 21 countries, that were at war with Germany.2 => "Five of the 21 countries that were at war with Germany" (no full stop) That's it from me - great work overall! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:50, 17 June 2021 (UTC) Hi @ChrisTheDude: Thanks for your comments. I have made all the changes in these edits. Template: Sort is added to sort the Titles starting with "The" and "A". I have removed the sentence "Only those compositions that were initially transformed as marches from other compositions are mentioned in the list.", as it was confusing. Also there is little use of adding the inclusion criteria as it is mentioned in a footnote that "some of his compositions are mistaken to be marches", so it is clear that those mistaken to be marches are definitely not included. I hope everything else is fine. Would appreciate your feedback. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 10:50, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:51, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Accessibility review (MOS:DTAB)

Resolved Accessibility review by PresN 03:42, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

The table needs a caption, e.g. at the top of the table code change "|+" to "|+ <table_caption_text>" or, if that caption would duplicate a nearby header, you can make it only for screen reader software like "|+ {{sronly|<table_caption_text>}}". Captions allow screen reader software to jump to tables by name. Column headers need to be marked with colscopes, e.g. "!Title" should be "!scope=col| Title". Colscopes and Rowscopes (which you have) allow screen reader software to properly read out tables verbally. --PresN 02:56, 18 June 2021 (UTC) @PresN: I have added caption for the table (only for screen reader software) and Column headers are marked by "!scope=col" in this edit. Would appreciate your feedback. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 03:21, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Looks good! --PresN 03:42, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Image review

• File:"University of Illinois March" Cover.jpg Needs PD-US rationale. Also, who was the artist of the cover? The copyright would probably be held by the artist.
• Other images look OK (t · c) buidhe 09:51, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Buidhe: Thanks for you Image Review. File:"University of Illinois March" Cover.jpg does needs a Public Domain tag, but I am not able to determine whether to use {{PD-US-not renewed}} or {{PD-US-no notice}}. The source (1) doesn't mention the artist of the cover. I removed the image from the list as except it, all other seems fine. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 10:22, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Source review

Passed Source review by Aza24 (talk) 21:04, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Will I was going to leave some non-source comments but there's really nothing to say. My only non-source quibble would be this: I'm not sure the "see also" section is needed at all, considering the terms in question are included rather prominently in the lead as well as the lower template. This is not, however, anything I would oppose over if you disagree. Aza24 (talk) 00:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC) Version reviewed: [1] Formatting Britannica is saying their date (under "Cite me") is 2 March 2021 Though not necessary, if you want the "|" from the titles of the Brittanica and Allmusic articles, you need only add | in place of them seem to missing AllMusic as the website/publisher for ref 3 "Lincoln, Nebraska" is the only location you include, so you may want to remove it Mar 26, 2018 seems to be the date for ref 16 Authors missing in ref 73 It seems like most, if not all, of the Lovrien refs are missing their dates Reliability No issues Verifiability Is there a source for note a—is it also ref 2? If so, I would add the ref there, just to be safe. A source would be nice for note b, but it's not a huge deal Aza24 (talk) 00:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC) Hi @Aza24, I have made most of the changes. The "See also" section is removed, the date is changes in Britannica refs, and dates are added to all nine "Lovrien" refs. Have made other changes too as you specified. Let me know if I left something, or is anything else is required. Thanks a lot! — Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 03:19, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Everything looks good, pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 21:04, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments from TRM

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 17:23, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

In the image caption, I'm not sure why "Music" is capitalised? "136 marches,[a] from" no need for comma, move footnote to end of sentence. Footnote [a]: "mistaken to be" -> "mistaken for". "A few..." lacking in encyclopedic tone. "the same public"" -> "the same level of public". "the University of Minnesota,[5] University of Illinois..." each university should be "the" here, or else make it "the universities of Minnesota, Illinois... etc". "'now known as Widener University..." Illinois is also known differently today. "and made many tours" you don't really "make" a tour, you "go on a tour" etc. "of 77 leaving" comma after 77. "the new leader" the new band leader. For missing audio, put an en-dash or something in the table cell, I don't think empty cells are helpful. "the 1880's," no apostrophe required. "march borrows its title" takes, rather than borrows. "the inauguration of James A. Garfield, and" link Garfield, and ensure that all linked items are linked each time in this sortable table. "Washington D.C. [20]" comma after Washington, no space before ref. "surrender at Yorktown" pipelink all of it not just Yorktown. ", "There Is a Man in Our Town", etc.[48]" -> "and "There Is a Man in Our Town".[48]" "composition is unknown, but it was published four years after its composition" repetitive "composition". "Corcoran Cadets" who? "1891-92" en-dash. "of "God save the King" [20]" Save, not save, and needs punctuation and no space before ref. "with the British Royal Navy" take British out of the pipe, it's not part of the formal name of the organisation. "at Boston food fair" at the Boston food fair. "President of Philadelphia scout organization." ilkewise. "men of U.S. infantry [102]" likewise. And punctuation/no space again. I suggest a good copyedit of these kinds of issue throughout the list. "311th cavalry" Cavalry. "was heartily, but seriously received" I don't really know what that means. "on International Magna Carta day Association" eh? "its band to be the finest college band" repetitive. Check refs for spaced hyphens e.g. ref 3, should be en-dashes per MOS. Ref 3 you link the website but don't appear to do that with many/any of the other refs. Ref 160 has the source in the title, not required. NYT source requires a subscription. That's all I have on a quick pass. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:04, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi @The Rambling Man: Thanks a lot for your comments. I have tried to fix most of them in these edits. Just not sure whether to use en-dash for missing audio files or not. Still, please review my edits and let me know if I missed something. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 12:11, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: Also, I just found out that "List of national anthems", which is a FL also has a few missing audio files, but has not added any dashes in those cells. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:22, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

That's not important. Please just fill in the empty cells otherwise it looks like you've just forgotten. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 16:34, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: Done—I have added en dashes in the empty cells in this edit. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:47, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

@WP:FLC director and delegates: Just a note that I have responded to everything. "Is there a consensus for promotion of this nomination?" Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 12:07, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Two supports is a little light for promotion. We could use at least one more good review here. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:08, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

@Giants2008: Not rushing, but requesting you to take a second look as we have two more detailed reviews, which are resolved. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:03, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Comments from HAL333

Resolved comments from ~ HAL333 18:24, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

* References need to be centered. You could shorten the column "Composition year" to just "year". It is considered to be a revised version --> "It is considered a revised version" This march is considered to be a version of "Mother Goose" --> "This march is considered a version of "Mother Goose" Sousa considered this march to be an echo of the Spanish-American war --> "Sousa considered this march an echo of the Spanish-American war" The sentence His admiration of horses is reflected by this march as he considered black horses used in Guard Unit to be his inspiration is a little awkward/unclear. Reword. considered its band to be the finest --> "considered its band the finest" It was premiered --> "It premiered" This march was presented by Sousa's heirs to the Library of Congress in 1970. --> "Sousa's heirs presented this march to the Library of Congress in 1970." Lots of stuff like This march was composed --> "Sousa composed this march" Weed out the rest of the passive voice. That's all I got. ~ HAL333 16:34, 4 July 2021 (UTC) Hi @HAL333: I think I have made all the changes in these edits. Please review and let me know if anything else is required. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:18, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support ~ HAL333 18:24, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Comments Support from Tim riley

Resolved comments from Tim riley talk 17:48, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

;Comments The nominator was kind enough to invite me to comment. I'll do so in detail (if any) after a careful read-through, but from a swift gallop through just now I see a hole in the "University of Nebraska" row, where words have, I think, been accidentally deleted. More anon. Tim riley talk 18:43, 7 July 2021 (UTC) Thanks! I have fixed the "University of Nebraska" row in this edit. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 03:23, 8 July 2021 (UTC) You may regret asking for my comments. Two general points stand out. First you are inconsistent with definite and indefinite articles. In a list of this sort, as opposed to a piece of prose, it would probably be OK to omit the article in e.g. "Evangeline Booth of Salvation Army. It premiered in New York on fiftieth anniversary of Salvation Army", or "on joint request of" if you omitted definite articles consistently, but you don't – we have, e.g. "the Smithsonian Institution" It would be best, I think, to include definite and indefinite articles whenever normal prose usage would require them. The second point is the curious choice of prepositions in connection with "request". You start off in normal English with "Sousa composed this march at the request of a California based drill team" – "at the request of…" is what one would expect to see, but thereafter we have "upon the request of", "upon request of", "on joint request from" and "upon request by", none of which are normal English usage. My recommendation is to change all these to "at the request of". I have picked out the ones I spotted, but there may possibly be some I have missed. Detailed comments: Some of his most famous marches include – Either "Some of his most famous marches are" or "His most famous marches include" A British band journalist – what is a band journalist? And does the nationality matter here? He composed marches for several American universities, including the universities of Minnesota Illinois (now known as University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign) … and the Pennsylvania Military College (now known as Widener University) – I don't think the modern titles of these institutions merit a mention in the lead: the blue link from the old name here to the relevant article will suffice, I think. Sousa composed this march upon the suggestion of fellow composer Simon Hassle. – Perhaps "at the request of" the victory of Christendom over the Turks in 1877 – what victory would that have been? If it means the Russo-Turkish War the victory was in 1878. the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta of the same name – G&S buffs would prefer the term "comic opera" to "operetta". the twenty-fourth triennial Conclave – it is fairly general practice to use digits for numbers over 10, and would save space here. Sousa composed this march upon the request of the students – Perhaps "at the request of" Egyptian trumpets were used in its composition – what are Egyptian trumpets and how do they differ from non-Egyptian ones? The National League of Musicians of United States – missing a definite article? Sousa initially composed this march as an operetta – I don't see how a march could have ever been a whole operetta. Do you mean "for" one? on his arrival to the United States – one arrives at or in, but not to, surely? Sousa considered this march an echo of the Spanish-American war, and it first appeared as an operetta in 1899. – "in" an operetta? upon the suggestion of George Reid, the High Commissioner for Australia. – Perhaps "at the request of" Sousa's operetta "All American" had been transformed to this march, with many passages, which were repetitive were removed. – This is not English. "The Lamb's March" was composed and dedicated to Lams Club of New York. – "Lams"? "The Pathfinder of Panama" was composed upon the request from Walter Anthony – Perhaps "at the request of" Sousa composed "Boy Scouts of America" upon request of Charles D. Hart, – Perhaps "at the request of" upon joint request from Secretary of Treasury William McAdoo and Liberty Loan Director Charles Schweppe. – Perhaps "at the request of" Other titles for this march were "Boys in the navy blue" and "Great lakes" – not capitalised consistently with other titles in the list. and is the official march of U.S. Army. – missing a definite article upon request of Pennsylvania civic committee – Perhaps "at the request of" Wisconsin's contribution into war efforts. – "contribution into" looks odd, and "contribution to" would be the normal usage. upon request of Robert D. Heinl, chief of Defense Department of Patriotic services. It premiered in March 1918. – Missing a definite article, and "It premiered" looks odd. Used as a verb "premiere" is usually transitive in my experience, but perhaps this is a case of WP:ENGVAR. upon request from representatives of American relief Legion during World War I. – "upon request from" and odd-looking capitalisation. on request of the publisher and upon request of student body from U.S. Naval Academy. T. R. Wirth suggested title "Ex Scienta Tridens" – a lot of missing definite articles. upon request from Colonel Wade H. Hayes. – Perhaps "at the request of" Upon receiving honorary doctorate from Pennsylvania Military College. – Missing definite article in Chester, Sousa composed "The Dauntless Battalion" to honor the cadets. It was originally titled "Pennsylvania Military College March", but upon its publication, title was changed to "The Dauntless Battalion" – Missing definite article was composed and dedicate to Thomas E. Mitten – presumably this should be "dedicated"? composed on request of Sousa's nephew, and was dedicated to Almas Temple and Imperial council. – Missing definite article, and odd capitalisation. Upon receiving honorary doctorate from Marquette University, "Marquette University March" was composed as an expression of appreciation to the university. – Dangling participle: you mean Sousa got the degree, but your prose says the march did. discovered among his papers in 1965. – I'd make "his" "Sousa's" here. No other mention of him in this row. Manuscript of this march was found with Sousa's documents in 1965. – Missing definite article for one hundred and fiftieth anniversary of American independence – Missing definite article on request of International Magna Carta day Association. – Missing definite article upon request of University of Minnesota football team. – Perhaps "at the request of", and missing a definite article composed by the request of Colonel Osmun Latrobe – Perhaps "at the request of" upon request of J. F. Zimmerman, President of University of New Mexico. – Perhaps "at the request of" and Missing definite article Student band from Elementary school in Los Angeles inspired Sousa to compose "Prince Charming". It was dedicated to band's organizer – Missing definite articles composed this march for University of Nebraska upon its Director's request. – Missing definite article and Perhaps "at the request of" he considered its band the finest among other colleges – this doesn't make sense. You need to omit the "other" or replace it with "all". directors of Ibero-American-exposition held at Sevilla, Spain. – Missing definite article. And as our EnWikipedia article calls the city Seville we might use the English form here, perhaps. Two different sets of marched were composed, but one march from the set has been lost. – I think "marched" should be "marches" "The Royal Welch Fusiliers" were two marches … It is the only march written by Sousa for a British Army regiment. The two versions have the same title, and are referred as Number 1 and 2. – this needs attention: we go from plural to singular and back again. composed on request of French government – Missing definite article Evangeline Booth of Salvation Army. It premiered in New York on fiftieth anniversary of Salvation Army. – Missing definite article but the college was provided completely different march. – missing words here, perhaps "with a" He composed "A Century of Progress", but passed away few months before the anniversary. – He did not pass away, pass over or pass out: he died. Apologies for such a long list of quibbles, but you did ask! Tim riley talk 12:46, 8 July 2021 (UTC) Hi @Tim riley: Firstly, I definitely do not regret asking you for comments. I made many changes as suggested in these edits, and found your comments really helpful. Indeed I did make some mistakes, but it was really kind of you to help me out. Please review the changes and let me know if anything else is required, or if I missed something major. Thanks again! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 15:10, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

The point about the 1877 Christian-V-Turk war needs addressing (I think just changing the date to 1878 will do) but that apart I am happy with the article as it now stands and am happy to support promotion to FL. I don't often dabble in FLC, so have refreshed my memory of the criteria, and I think this article meets them. Tim riley talk 17:48, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

I addressed the issue in this edit. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:02, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Comment from Smerus

This looks and reads fine and I would support FL. There is one thing which may be worthy of explanation in a note, if not in the text. You mention that "Review" was his first published march, and that it has the opus number 5. The reader (or anyway this reader) immediately queries, what were opp. 1-4? Were they also marches, which have been lost? Were they a different musical genre? Or do we just not know? A little clarification, even if the answer is that we don't know, would be good. You might also be explicit (if it is indeed the case, as it appears to be) that this is his only work with an opus number (there are no opus numbers at all in the List of compositions by John Philip Sousa). Best, --Smerus (talk) 22:12, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Smerus: Well, I have removed the mention of Opus number 5 from the list as it may seem a bit confusing. I think opp. 1-4 were probably not known, but the source states that "It was called Opus 5 and was dedicated to Colonel William G. Moore" Nevertheless, I have rephrased it. Thanks for your support! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:12, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

I think that's the simplest answer in the circumstances! I definitely support the article for FL.--Smerus (talk) 09:39, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:17, 11 July 2021 (UTC)