Talk:James Robinson

Please consider discussing before deleting-Casito 07:44, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I didn't delete, I redirected after merging all content into the Free Republic page. My apologies for being bold. That said, you are free to chime in on the Talk:Free Republic page if you so wish. --Jonathan Christensen 08:58, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Repost of the message from the FR discussion forum. All further discussions of this, if any, need to take place here.

JC - the only person who seems to be acting unilaterally on this matter is you. You've unilaterally merged the page itself twice now with little to no discussion at all, though others have asked you to discuss that on Talk:Jim_Robinson. Showing up on the talk page and saying the equivalent of "yeah, but i'm gonna do it anyway" is not a discussion. As it stands right now there seem to be three people who favor leaving it as it was with only you proposing to merge it, yet you plow right ahead with the merge unilaterally. As for common wikipedia policy on people who are well known for their websites having separate articles, I direct you to a couple well known examples:

• The Daily Kos blog and owner Markos Moulitsas Zúniga
• The Drudge Report and owner Matt Drudge
• The Little Green Footballs blog and owner Charles Johnson
• Power Line (blog) and its owners John_H._Hinderaker and Scott_W._Johnson

Based upon these precedents, it seems that a separate article here would be both appropriate and in keeping with wikipedia formatting policy. I have restored the previous article and removed your redirect on this basis. I will also post a copy of this comment on the discussion forum there. If you still support a change in which the articles are merged, then YOU need to go over there and make your case for it on that discussion section rather than acting unilaterally and turning talking only after the change you desire is done. Thanks for understanding. Rangerdude 16:49, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For the time being, I shall comment here. First, there are several factual errors in your interpretation I would like to point out. For starters, you state that the only person acting unilaterally was me. Hardly! I initially merged the pages in keeping with the WP:BB policy. If others didn't like it, they might have reverted it and tried to discuss it. Did they? Perhaps a look at the summary Wakeforest left when he reverted the Free Republic page will be enlightening:

(don't agree leave page alone or you'll be blocked)

Oh, but that's not at all unilateral, is it? Here's a brand new user account (Wakeforest had neither a user page or a talk page at the time he made that revert; he created his user page with no meaningful content soon after, and I created his talk page), probably a sock puppet--he shows some knowledge of Wikipedia, if he is seemingly entirely ignorant of proper processes--threatening to block me if I edit the page at all. Why? Because he doesn't agree with me. But that'snot unilateral, is it, Rangerdude? No, of course not.

After he made that comment, I decided that the best thing to do would be to discuss it. So I asked a question on his talk page:

Hey, what's up with the Free Republic page? "leave page alone or you'll be blocked?" Who do you think you are? If you disagree, we can discuss it. Otherwise, I will be forced to take this to arbitration. --Jonathan Christensen 07:44, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Oooh, that's pretty unilateral, isn't it? I dunno, I guess Wakeforest had better keep on being nice and accepting, since I was being soooo unilateral. This is what I got in response:

Who do I think I am?

Not relevant to a little person as yourself.

I have warned you once. You won't get a second warning before you are blocked and hard-banned. Wakeforest 07:46, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Once again, it's clear that Wakeforest is absolutely not being unilateral, isn't it. I mean, isn't it? It isn't? Oh dear, what am I to do?

So what does the oh-so unilateral JC do? Why, he asks Wakeforest for an explanation, once again:

Since when do you have the ability to block and hardban me, and why should I be blocked or hardbanned? I've posted a comment on that talk page; unless you explain yourself reasonable, I will take this to RfC immediately. --Jonathan Christensen 07:49, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Damn him and his unilateral ways, asking people to explain themselves not once, but twice! After 25 minutes without any kind of response or action on Wakeforest's part--strange, IMHO, for someone who was just about to hardban me--I once again merged the page, figuring him to be some sort of obscene sockpuppet joke.

Now that that is out of the way, we can turn to more relevant matters. First, you claim there are at least three people in favor of keeping it as two seperate articles; in fact, I count at most two, you and wakeforest (who, as I noted earlier, is most likely a sockpuppet--his only edits are reverting the changes I made, creating his user page with a singly comma on it, and threatening me on my user page[1]). Although one other person edited this page soon after Wakeforst reverted it, they have yet to weigh in on either side of the discussion, although I invited them to do so. If or when they do, perhaps you can say three.

Second, in all the other cases you cite those pages have information which certainly does not belong on the main site page, and merits a page for that particular person. Although Markos Moulitsas Zúniga is a small page, that biographical material certainly does not belong on his blog's page. Drudge's page has its merits merely in its size, though some of it is surely duplicated on the Drudge Report page. No matter. Charles Johnson's page has other material as well, such as his career as a jass guitarist. This page has no such material; all of it, apart from the two sentences at the top, clearly belongs in the Free Republic article, and even those might be debated.

So, I need to go over where now to make my case? Perhaps I need to join the Society of Unilateralists, or the Society of Sock Puppeteers, so that I can make my case more effectively, as Wakeforest obviously seems to have convinced you that way?

Please, get a clue about what is actually going on here. Or are you going to threaten to hardban me now for disagreeing with you? --Jonathan Christensen 19:29, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

JC - Your response to an attempt at discussion is unnecessarily combative in tone. Wikipedia works on consensus, not flame wars. Contrary to your indications, others DID try to discuss the issue here above after you came along and changed the article - see Casito's post to you "Please consider discussing before deleting." Your response was to neglect his request for a explanation of your changes, send him over to the FR discussion page, and go right ahead with those changes unimpeded and without any genuine consideration of the requests that had been made of you. That is the definition of unilateral action. Wikipedia operates around consensus, and quite frankly the consensus to date is NOT with you on this issue. It is plainly evident from your post that you have some sort of previous issue with Wakeforest that I'd prefer not to tread into. Come back when you're mature enough to engage in a polite discussion of the proper placement of this article absent your disposition toward combative rantings and unilateral changes against the consensus. Rangerdude 00:05, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

From RFC

Hmm. This looks to have been unpleasant. Personally I don't see any problem with a redirect; this person is only notable for his involvement with the Website, which has its own page. Information on the author of the Website can go there. I probably would've just put it up for VfD. · Katefan0^(scribble) 19:46, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

• Oh, and this probably goes without saying, but it's not very polite to make threats about banning someone just because you disagree with something they did editorially. (Not to mention pretending to have the power to ban someone in the first place.) · Katefan0^(scribble) 20:59, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

The source of the unpleasantness to date has been JC, who unilaterally changed the article at a time when there was no consensus to do so. Going by how similar website/website author articles have been formed (see the examples I gave above) it seems perfectly proper to split them into two articles in keeping with how other situations like this have been handled. Rangerdude 00:05, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)