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#REDIRECT [[User:Giovanni Giove]]
''Stop accusing Giovanni Giove of sockpuppetry with me! Verify my IP with "wiki check up" before writing lies in perfect Tito-style!''--[[User:Cherso|Cherso]] ([[User talk:Cherso|talk]]) 16:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

== An inquiry ==

May I ask, Giovanni, why did you delete your entire talkpage? You did not archive it like you said... [[User:DIREKTOR|DIREKTOR]] 11:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

== Commento ==

Ciao Giovanni, sono PIO ma non mi posso registrare per un problema tecnico. Ho letto il tuo messaggio ma se lascerò un commento dovrò farlo senza registrarmi. Dalla cronologia di [[wikipedia:Requests for arbitration]] ho visto che è stato rimosso il commento di LEO ossia -20:31, 28 August 2007 151.33.88.36 (Talk) (75,698 bytes)-: francamente penso che certi amministratori facciano più danni di alcuni psicolabili croati!!!! Comunque non ho fiducia in questo progetto che ritengo fallimentare: puoi vedere che nella versione in italiano ho smesso di collaborare, pur essendo la mia sospensione di un anno scaduta. Penso che questo progetto abbia fatto arricchire il suo fondatore ma se io devo fare una ricerca mai verrei a consultare questa sedicente enciclopedia: enciclopedia sì ma di cazzate!!!! Sono disgustato dall'ignoranza di persone presuntuose con le quali dovrei discutere in italiano, inglese, francese: posso utilizzare meglio il mio tempo!!!! Persone come DIREKTOR, Kubura, No. 13 hanno evidenti problemi psicologici che li porta ad avversare tutto quel che è italiano: hanno bisogno di bravi psichiatri, io che posso fare con un commento? Ma davvero devo discutere con disturbati mentali croati segnalati molte volte agli amministratori che sembrano favorirli anzichè metterli al bando!!!! Non ho alcuna fiducia in Isotope e altri amministratori: addirittura Isotope bloccò un italiano non registrato, che giustamente rimuoveva le cazzate anti-italiane di tali croati in diversi articoli, poichè aveva lasciato un messaggio caricaturale a DIREKTOR nel quale si comunicava la morte del dittatore comunista Tito. In particolare, DIREKTOR solo per quel che ha fatto su [[foibe massacres]] scatenando una guerra editoriale contro almeno una decina di persone merita di esser messo al bando a infinito invece continua imperterrito e l'ultima modifica è ancora sua. Poi in passato sai che fece fronte comune con un altro fanatico slavo Ghepeu, al quale lasciai un messaggio che puoi ancora leggere: questi slavi insultano gli Italiani e Ghepeu si allea con uno di loro contro di me, ma allora qui non c'è proprio motivo di collaborazione!!!! Io non sto qui a litigare ma se qualcuno m'insulta, come Ghepeu, devo rispondere, poi certi croati provocano e fanno solo propaganda protetti da alcuni amministratori. Il mio schifo per questo progetto m'induce a smettere di collaborare. Apprezzo persone competenti come te e Brunodam ma io non posso discutere a lungo con amministratori che neanche sanno dove hanno il buco per pisciare!!!! Ciao, PIO 29 agosto 2007


:There is no need for insults, PIO. How nice of you to admit who you are! :D I will translate and report you for personal attacks against several Wikipedians (including Admins, apparently). If you think you can hide behind your (beautiful) language, you will find that you are sorely mistaken. I fear you will have to speak in Arabic or something to achieve that. [[User:DIREKTOR|DIREKTOR]] 14:01, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

DIREKTOR, dato che capisci l'italiano, ti avverto di non azzardarti più a sporcare la pagina della mia discussione con messaggi farneticanti riguardo il dittatore Tito e la Iugoslavia con insulti al popolo italiano. Io con un ignorante e volgarissimo provocatore come te non ho tempo da perdere in discussioni: vai da un bravo psichiatra e fatti analizzare, idiota!!!! Hai riempito molti articoli di falsità e propaganda: ma davvero credi di convincere qualcuno con le tue assurde farneticazioni? Sei ridicolo nelle tua esaltazione di un dittatore comunista come Tito che organizzò la pulizia etnica contro gli italiani e massacrò milioni di italiani, croati, serbi, sloveni, montenegrini, bosniaci, macedoni, tedeschi, ungheresi, albanesi, tutti cittadini iugoslavi, compresi vecchi e bambini. Quella enorme testa di cazzo di Stipe Mesic ha polemizzato contro la denuncia di pulizia etnica di Giorgio Napolitano non capendo che quella era una denuncia anche dei crimini contro i croati nel [[Bleiburg massacre]]: Mesic anzichè unirsi a Napolitano nel denunciare i crimini del dittatore comunista Tito contro i croati ha ingaggiato una polemica con Napolitano dimostrando di esser anti-italiano e un grande coglione!!!! I croati devono capire che i turisti italiani sono una risorsa essenziale per l'economia croata: se gli italiani smettono di andare in Dalmazia, molti croati moriranno di fame e i croati devono solo ringraziare l'esercito italiano che li ha difesi recentemente contro i serbi!!!! Quel criminale schizoide di Tito non capì che gli italiani potevano esser solo una risorsa per la Iugoslavia invece li massacrò nelle foibe e tolse loro le case per indurli ad andarsene pianificando la pulizia etnica!!!! Quindi, DIREKTOR la tua propaganda titoista a me fa solo schifo: Tito fu molto più criminale di Pavelic e Mussolini insieme!!!! La salvezza della Iugoslavia poteva esser la democrazia ossia tutte le etnie potevano convivere pacificamente in Iugoslavia ma solo in libertà democratica invece Tito e i comunisti con le loro pulizie etniche contro italiani, tedeschi, albanesi, bosniaci e altri hanno dato solo morte e distruzione inoltre il nome dello Stato doveva esser FEDERAZIONE BALCANICA sul modello della FEDERAZIONE SVIZZERA con lingue ufficiali che comprendessero italiano, tedesco, ungherese, albanese e altre usate nei corrispondenti cantoni. PIO, 30 agosto 2007 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/151.33.94.142|151.33.94.142]] ([[User talk:151.33.94.142|talk]]) 10:35, August 30, 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


I did not at any time expect you to understand the comlex politics of our nations and nationalities. Tito is the one that created the closest thing to your FEDERAZIONE BALCANICA (Socialist FEDERATIVE Republic of Yugoslavia), that is why I support his policies, as for communism, he created the mildest, most prosperous (official GDP information), and ''the'' most liberal ''socialist'' state in the world. <br>
Pavelic and Mussolini (the world's most comical dictator) slaughtered 1,200,000 (at least) men, women and children in the holocaust and otherwise in Yugoslavia. How many Italians died in the war? You will have ''permanent'' technical difficulties because of your attacks, I'm afraid. [[User:DIREKTOR|DIREKTOR]] 14:29, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

==[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dalmatia]]==
Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dalmatia]]. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dalmatia/Evidence]]. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dalmatia/Workshop]].

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, [[User:Picaroon|Picaroon]] [[User talk:Picaroon|(t)]] 20:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

== RfC ==

Thanks for giving it a try. Regards, --[[User:Asterion|<span style="color:#0000FF;font-weight:bold;">'''Asterion'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Asterion|<span style="color:#00EF00;">'''talk'''</span>]]</sup> 20:22, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== intenzione ==

Leggendo [[User talk:UstashkiDom#Take it easy|questo messaggio]] dalla prima frase sai la ossessiva intenzione di DIREKTOR -We can always use support against radical Serb (četnik) and (especially) Italian theses in Wikipedia-: sto tizio agisce in gruppo contro supposte e immaginarie ''tesi italiane''. Dunque DIREKTOR è un troll. [[user:PIO|PIO]], 11 set 2007 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/151.33.90.209|151.33.90.209]] ([[User talk:151.33.90.209|talk]]) 06:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Riflessione ==

Ciao ingegnere, riguardo le tue modifiche in [[Istrian exodus]] voglio specificare che la sezione ''antecedent'' non è stata redatta da me ma da altro utente non registrato e io mi devo prendere una pausa di riflessione ossia non devo più modificare gli articoli coinvolti nella [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dalmatia]]. Infatti l'amministratrice Riana mi ha fatto notare che se continuo a redigere da non registrato faccio sospettare la mia intenzione di eludere il 3RR e rischio un blocco duraturo quindi ho risposto che mi astengo dal redigere sin quando risolverò i miei problemi tecnici. Ciao, [[user:PIO|PIO]] 15:24 25 set 2007

== Resolution proposal ==

Giovanni (did I mention that's my name as well?), I propose we put an end to our conflict through discussion as two intelligent human beings. Here's what I suggest:<br>

* We both stop editing Dalmatia-related articles and leave them ''exactly'' as they are.
* We make a list of articles wich are disputed between us.
* We tackle them two at a time by discussing for the purpose of reaching a consensus.
* We both '''do not''' edit until an agreement is reached, and invest our energies in using civilized arguments and relible sources.

I realise this looks tedious, but I doubt it can be more tedious than constant edit-warring. More importantly I would like to turn your attention towards the strong possibility that we will both be '''''severely''''' restricted by the Arbitration Committee (see [[Wikipedia: Requests for arbitration/Dalmatia/Proposed decision]]). <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 11:34, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


:Don't worry about my upholding the Agreement. I will not be the one to reinitiate hostilities. I just remembered one thing, can we ''please'' agree not to use (ex-)Yugoslav (including Croatian) and Italian sources in our discussions? <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 14:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
::We shall distinguish case to case, for the sources. There are anyway several general rules that can be properly discussed and applied to all the disputed articles. [[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 14:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Fine. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 14:13, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
: Why did you merge the two texts on the controversy ([[Marco Polo]])? The section does not make sense anymore and repeats itself. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 14:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
:: To have a single disputed section and because the content was too large for a so small introduction. Futhermore in the present moment the intro do not mention the birth place, so it is neutral.[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 14:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
::: Ok, but the section does not make sense this way... <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 14:13, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
:::: Of course it can be properly shortened.--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 14:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
::::: Well I'll get to it then, shall I? <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 14:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::yes...[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 14:35, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::There. I deleted the first text while making sure no info was ommited. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 14:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you too should make an effort to show the Arbitrators we have come to terms... <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 00:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

== Marco Polo ==

Why did you change the ''Ethnicity and Birthplace Controversy'' section? Didn't we agree we would not touch it without consensus? You rewrote it '''''completly''''' (no offense, but also with bad grammar) to make the Korčula theory seem less likely. I know you probably find this difficult and probably won't want to, but '''''please''''' return it to the original version, we can discuss any changes you deem necessary . <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 09:08, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


Due to lack of response I have returned the ''Ethnicity and Birthplace Controversy'' subsection to the state it was in at the time of the Agreement. '''Please''' do not revert just yet, and diccuss in the new section at the Discussion page. <br>
Please remeber that this was the Agreement, I have not infringed upon it, will you please try your best to do the same. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 19:06, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

== Republic of Ragusa ==

Why are you editing Ragusa without discussion? Do you even realize we will be severly '''''restricted''''', and here you are starting TWO edit-wars. '''''Please''''' restore the articles to their previous form, the one you agreed in the ''Agreement'' not to touch,. We can discuss changes sanely. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 11:39, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

== Ragusa ==

I am willing to swallow the Polo thing, but as for Ragusa correct or not, you clearly violated our Agreement. I must ask you to ''return the article to the prior state,'' I'm sure we can come to an agreement. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 19:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

You must tell me, I'm curious: is there a particular reason you refuse to answer my plea, or did you simply overlook it? Do we have an agreement or not? <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 17:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

== Latest devealopments ==

Hi, Giovanni. Since you seem to be indisposed for the time being, I thought it would be decent to bring you up to speed on the situatiuon in the [[Marco Polo]] and [[Republic of Ragusa]] articles.

Concerning Marco Polo. After a lack of response to several of my enquiries, I took the liberty of returning the old "Agreement version" of the ''Ethnicity and Birthplace controversy'' section (please allow that you took the same liberty, let this be the last of them). Ghepeu joined in and we sort of managed to scrape together an agreeable wording and organisation. <br>
I pointed out the current issues concerning the section (as per your request) in the new discussion section I created (here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Marco_Polo#Ethnicity_and_birthplace_controversy_subsection_organisation_discussion]). <br>

Concerning the Republic of Ragusa business, I hope you see that it is irrlevant at this point what I believe (trust), we '''agreed not to touch the article''', did we not? In any case, I removed all reference to an official language from the article, pending verifiable confirmation of the Italian official language thesis. There should be some way to '''verify''' matters of such importance before they are included, don't you think? I created a discussion section for this problem as well (here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republic_of_Ragusa#Sources_request_for_the_.22Italian_language_was_official.22_claim]).

In any event, I honestly reccomend, that when you rejoin Wiki, you give discussion a chance before reverting. Please remember our Agreement and the restriction we will face if we do not give cooperation a chance.
<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 18:43, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

==Dalmatian Italians==

Even though I'm aware you ignore all my posts, I'll try to talk once more. While I'm willing to swallow your removal of most of my hard work from nearly three days, I must protest about your inclusion of the "Roman = Italian" thesis. In English historiography, Romance peoples are not "[[Latins]]", nor are they considered "Latin". The adjective "Romance" or "Romanic" can be used. Also, the fact that the ancient Dalmatians ''were'' Romans does not make them ''Italian''. Even [[User:Brunodam|Brunodam]] accepted this as true. <br>

I also MUST protest that you NEVER EVER discuss your edits! What gives?, why can't you discuss like the rest of us?
<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 19:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

==[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dalmatia]]==

This arbitration case has closed and the final decision is available at the link above. [[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] and [[User:DIREKTOR|DIREKTOR]] are each subject to an editing restriction for one year. Each is limited to one revert per page per week (excepting obvious vandalism), and is required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page. ''Please note that you may be blocked by an administrator if you violate these requirements.'' This notice is given by a Clerk on behalf of the Arbitration Committee. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 01:12, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

== Marco Polo ''(again)'' ==

Despite the fact you do not answer any posts, I feel I have to say that you '''really''' need to get objective, here's an example: <br>

:''"Polo was not in Korčula to visit his ancestral roots..."''<br>

:: You say it like its a '''100%''' certain fact. How do you know this? Did you ask the guy? One does not make this sort of ''matter-of-fact'' statements, one presents merely the evidence and bare facs. You cannot make conclusions for the reader in controversial matters. Since I really ''do'' believe old Marco was from Venice, I ain't gonna get involved with your edits, but ''please'' try to improve your spelling. <br>
You cannot say ''"Marco Polo was declaring himself a Venetian citizen"'', say ''"Marco Polo stated he was a Venetian citizen"''. (this is, of course, just an example too)
<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 18:02, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
:Done.--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 22:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

{{{icon|[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] }}}Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia{{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{1|}}}|, as you did to [[:{{{1}}}]]}}. Your edits appear to constitute [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. {{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{2|}}}|{{{2}}}|Thank you.}}<!-- Template:uw-vandalism2 -->[[User:Gunnerdevil4|Gunnerdevil4]] 23:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC) This warning is an accident on accout that I accidently warned the wrong user. [[User:Gunnerdevil4|Gunnerdevil4]] 00:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:The above claim appear to be a misunderstanding.--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 23:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
::Im sorry, I have reviewed the article and I have gotten the wrong user.[[User:Gunnerdevil4|Gunnerdevil4]] 00:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

== The game I'm playing ==

Believe it or not, my objective opinion on the birthplace of Marco Polo is that '''he was born in Venice'''. However, due to the lack of any conclusive evidence I think that the people of Korčula also deserve to have that theory represented fully. the theories are indeed equally strong in their claim (because we simply ''do not know'' where Marco was born) so an encyclopedia should also follow the objective facts and evidence, not ''"probability"'' or personal opinion. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 17:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

== Your threats ==

Giovanni this is again another occasion where I noticed you are trying to insert your personal subjective opinion in the article, namely in [[Roger Boscovich]] article. I have read your talk page and found that you are strickly forbidden to edit war on articles related to Dalmatia and historical people from Dalmatia because of your constant edit wars and inherent subjectivity enforcement, in this case article about Roger Boscovich perfectly fits that criteria. So it is me warning you rather than you warning me. I hope you will take this seriously. Regards. --[[User:Raguseo|Raguseo]] 20:31, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Giovanni you are not the only person editing on Wikipedia, there are others if you noticed. There was a certain version of Roger Boscovich article for a very long time, that is until you started editing recently, importing your POV and hiding it behind trivial edits. I am not a fool you know. --[[User:Raguseo|Raguseo]] 21:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Giovanni please show me sources which say there was Italy in 1760 when Roger Boscovich lived, or even better sources which will confirm there was a independent political entity called Dalmatia anywhere in that time period. We both know you can't. When you are mentioning a person's place of birth and death only political entities apply, geographical regions are irrelevant. Regarding Dubrovnik's historical name in Latin/Dalmatian (and Italian) is also mentioned already in the very Roger Boscovich article. Wikipedia rules also say historical names are applicable only in articles which are about certain time period, in all other cases the current names are to be used for people to know what the article is talking about. In this case we have a parody where you revert to Ragusa and leave Milan. The name used in English language is Dubrovnik. Why don't you revert to Milano? I will tell you, because you want to imply Dubrovnik was in that time Italian town, that is why you also change Italic to Italian despite the fact people of Dubrovnik didn't consider themselves Italians at that time or ever. Now you can accuse me of POV or even more ridiculusly of personal attacks but in the end it is you who is trying to change the article not me. For that you better have good reasons. For now you have none. But please continue, I am sure the admins who handled your case and forbid you to edit war on Dalmatia-related articles will be thrilled with your recent activity. Regards again. --[[User:Raguseo|Raguseo]] 21:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Answers:
1. Galileo's place of residence says "Grand Duchy of Tuscany", Dante's birth place is only Florence. Only Columbus article mentions Italy in such a sense as you did in Boscovich article. A mistake obviously. In any case none of those articles are my concern as I am not interested in them. My interest is Boscovich article and preserving already achieved level of quality.
2. I never disputed that. Ragusa is a historical name and it is used and should be used only in articles regarding history of Dubrovnik. When we are writing down the place of birth of some historical person we need to write down the current name and official name and also the name used in English language. All these for Boscovic's birth place have only one answer - Dubrovnik.
3. Italic is a cultural term, a designations for something of Italic/Romanic origin. Italian is much more modern and is applied to Italy (Republic of Italy). People of Dubrovnik in that time were not in Italy and they certainly weren't Italian (citizens of Italian Republic founded in 1861 50 years after the fall of Ragusan Republic).
4. Giovanni you should apply this advice to yourself first. I am not blind you know, I know POV when I see one. --[[User:Raguseo|Raguseo]] 22:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

== Italy ==
I agree with Raguseo. Your corrections looked very POV. You put Italy as place of Boscovich death as "geographical and political place" ? Geographical place is Milan, and political Duchy of Milan. There is no "political" Italy in 18th century and first larger geographical place is valley of river Po.
And putting Dalmatia in birth place seams that you are using names of the provinces from roman times (more that thousand years before Boskovich). Isn't that little bit unneceseary?:)
[[User:Ceha|Ceha]] 22:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
:I do not want to repeat what I've already written in Raguseo's talk page. Grts.--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 22:31, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but you are mixing things.
1)Why? What is the point of putting Italy in Boskovich page? Conotation on Italy are primarely conected with a state of that name, and not on the geographical region on the Appenine peninsula. On the pages of the city of Milan there is it's geographical location. No need, and as Raguseo says, it isn't even correct.
2)Historical name of the town. Not currently official in english language. See Bejing
3)Same as above.
4)Please read your own posts and try to see the difference. There is no need putting Italy in every page on wikipedia.[[User:Ceha|Ceha]] 23:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
::Have you read what I've written?:) I don't see the need for puting Italy (which is also name of the state which was created firstly 150 years after dissalution of Ragusan Republic) on that page.
My commentars are in good faith (would I've been talking to you if they where not?). Please do the same.
And also please, don't have double standards (for example name of Milano and Dubrovnik). Put your suggestion about putting Italy(word with other meanings) on Boscovich Talk page, and you'll hear what others have to say.
[[User:Ceha|Ceha]] 10:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


== Roger Boshkovich ==

I am shocked to read your edits on Boshkovich! This is an outrage Giovanni! Will you ever get normal with your views?!, you edit with a very strong POV <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 22:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

I've blocked you for violation of your ArbCom revert parole. This restricted you to one revert per page per week; you appear to have made at least three reverts in less than two days. Taking into account previous blocks, the duration of this block is six days. &ndash; [[User:Steel359|Steel]] 15:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)<br>Diffs for reference: <small>([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roger_Joseph_Boscovich&diff=169284942&oldid=169252953 Raguseo])</small> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roger_Joseph_Boscovich&diff=169340118&oldid=169286062 revert 1] <small>([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roger_Joseph_Boscovich&diff=169364167&oldid=169363575 Ceha])</small> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roger_Joseph_Boscovich&diff=169365502&oldid=169364332 revert 2] <small>([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roger_Joseph_Boscovich&diff=169475630&oldid=169445344 Direktor])</small> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roger_Joseph_Boscovich&diff=169567475&oldid=169567391 revert 3]

==Ti con nu, nu con Ti==

Ricevi tutta la solidarietá di noi esuli Dalmati.--[[User:Cherso|Cherso]] 16:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)



== LISTEN ==

I'm sure there's a way w can work this out. Just tell me what you want and I'll ask him what he wants and I'll try to create a happy meeting place. Best, --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] 15:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
:I've set up a discussion at Arbcom. Go there and put your name under the involved parties list. --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] 19:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

== Apology ==

Giovanni, accept my honest appology. I lost my temper for the moment, I mean no insult to the people who left Dalmatia. In my oppinion they acted prematurely, but this very well may not have been so. Once again, I honestly appologize. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 19:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

:Giovanni, non te la prendere così. I did not accuse you of anything- I simply mentioned the coincidence and left it at that. You must admit, to a casual observer it does look funny:) [[User:Mariokempes|Mariokempes]] 22:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

...what? <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 22:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

== Blocked (2) ==

*[[Fascist Italianization]]: <small>([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascist_Italianization&diff=171654050&oldid=171636921 Aradic-en])</small> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascist_Italianization&diff=171686194&oldid=171673364 revert] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascist_Italianization&diff=171686441&oldid=171686194 1] <small>([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascist_Italianization&diff=171702094&oldid=171700463 Aradic-en])</small> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascist_Italianization&diff=171865369&oldid=171865191 revert 2]
*[[Marco Polo]]: <small>([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marco_Polo&diff=171750771&oldid=171663893 Direktor])</small> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marco_Polo&diff=171779021&oldid=171750771 revert 1] <small>([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marco_Polo&diff=171895028&oldid=171779661 Zenanarh])</small> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marco_Polo&diff=171897387&oldid=171895028 revert 2] <small>([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marco_Polo&diff=171898468&oldid=171897387 Zenanarh])</small> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marco_Polo&diff=171899409&oldid=171898468 revert 3]
Giovanni, I honestly don't know what you're playing at. You've violated your ArbCom revert restriction on at least two pages within a matter of hours. What's really astonishing is that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Marco_Polo&diff=prev&oldid=171897513 here] you remove an alleged personal attack, yet in the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fascist_Italianization&diff=prev&oldid=171898314 very next edit] you proceed to make attacks yourself. Given these actions and your lengthy block log, I have blocked you indefinitely. This may or may not be lifted pending an [[WP:ANI|ANI]] discussion. &ndash; [[User:Steel359|Steel]] 17:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
#The second supposed "revert" is '''not a revert at all''', read well: I've restored some typos errors, as recognized by Zen. , but NOT the disputed line (that was lightly changed, but this is not a revert).
# About the first revert, it is about a really minor aspect, I was inattentive and I apologize, but it appears anyway a minor violation, between several edits, sourced and/or discussed.
##NOTE: I do not apologize anymore for the revert. I've reviewed what happened, and I claim to be innocent. Meanwhile 2 users were edit warring, I've tried for two times to make neutral a controversial chapter. In this two different attempts there were two "coincident edits", and they can not be considered as a "revert".
# About my supposed attack: for month I've been heavy insulted, attacked, accused of sock puppetry: again again and again. Find me a SINGLE time, when I've attacked back. Now, for my very FIRST reaction (that I do NOT find insulting) you want to block me! You are no so strict with other users!!!
# I've finally to complain about my first block ([[Roger Boscovich]]): you did an error because I acted in a total good faith. I've done 1 revert, it was reverted, I've discussed it in the talk page, THAN I've reverted back! It was reverted and I've let it be! The 3d was about a totally different problem: a massive reverts by DIREKTOR, and I did not see it as a violation of the revert rule. Even if I've broken the restriction, I was not awake of it, and actually I acted in GOOD FAITH. I've was sure that a revert done after a discussion shall be considerer an EDIT.
#You must recognize that my last "rv" are light and about minor aspects, and they can not be assumed as a major violation. And that I the last months I've acted in good faith, avoiding personal attacks and sourcing my edits.
# Furthermore is more and more evident that DIREKTOR acts like a meatball, with other user, trying to block me in any way. Last but not least, why you did nothing against Direktor and his massive unexplained revert in Boscovich (I mean this[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roger_Joseph_Boscovich&diff=prev&oldid=169475630])? He reverted tens of my edits, with no discussion! I've reverted it, but I've discussed the rv in the talk page and I've immediately written to a moderator, to ask if I've acted bad (see here [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Thatcher131&diff=prev&oldid=169569251]). Why you do nothing against the heavy insults he recently posted in my talk page (see here [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGiovanni_Giove&diff=170547591&oldid=170546302])? Why you did nothing against the several insults I've received in the last weeks?!
#My block logs is altered by some blocks I've never committed, as recognized by the moderators them self.
#All the blocks were caused by sockpuppets of the multi banned [[user:Afrika_paprika]], and they shall be deleted. 2 blocks were caused by DIREKTOR. You know about the last 2.
#Furthermore, before to act in this way, even blocking me, you should listen my complains, before. I act in good faith, and I am under attack by a group of Croatian users whot do not act in the proper way.---- [[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] ([[User talk:Giovanni Giove|talk]]) 17:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
::To be honest most of what I've seen you remove as personal attacks haven't really been blockworthy personal attacks at all. Saying that you've discredited yourself [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Marco_Polo&diff=prev&oldid=171897513] is quite different to saying that you're shame for your country [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fascist_Italianization&diff=prev&oldid=171898314]. As for Direktor, I've been keeping an eye on his contributions but haven't noticed him violate his own revert restriction; please link me with diffs if he has (recently). The ANI discussion is [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Giovanni Giove indefblock|here]]. If you want to say anything there, post it here and I can copy it over. &ndash; [[User:Steel359|Steel]] 17:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I can not post there. Honestly there are tens of personal attacks against me, from several users: you need only to search, find me a SINGLE attack I did in the last months.---- [[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] ([[User talk:Giovanni Giove|talk]]) 18:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
:You can make use of {{tl|unblock}} if you want another admin to review this. &ndash; [[User:Steel359|Steel]] 18:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


::: Giovanni, I only reverted a few times to counter your veritable ceaseless '''flood''' of poor-quality edits. I never violated the restriction, and I discussed as best as I could each time I reverted. You obviously blame me for your blocks, but maybe you ought to read your restriction rules once more and then look at your edits. A blind man can see you violated the ARBCOM ruling, not twice, but ''several'' times. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 19:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

*Under the circumstances [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration&diff=prev&oldid=172008990] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=172005698] I am reducing the block to 2 days. In the future, you will need to develop some dispute resolution skills that do not involve calling people meatballs and reverting their edits. All sides need to discuss controversial changes on the talk page ''before'' they are made, and certainly before they are reverted or reinstated. These sort of ethnic and nationalist disputes are unpleasant for everyone and continued aggressive behavior will eventually lead to longer blocks and/or bans. You can report violations by DIREKTOR at [[WP:AE]]. [[User talk:Thatcher131|Thatcher131]] 02:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
=== Unblock (for [[User talk:Thatcher131|Thatcher131]])===
{{unblock reviewed|1=Thank you Tathcher. Nevertheless I still need to point out that:

1. I've never violated my restriction. Steel has reported wrongly the facts, and I will tell about this. If (if!) I did violations, I did just minor violations, and I've acted in good faith. I can provide evidences in any moment.

2. "Meatball", if I remeber well, it is when a group of editors act in a coordinate way, even for reverts. I had no intention at all to be offensive: what I wished to say is that the Croatian users were acting as a group (and this is a matter of fact - IMHO).

3. When I did "controversial" changes, I've sourced them (thought I've not always "discussed" them). If an edit is sourced, I think is not a must to discuss them, everybody is free to re-edit them. When somebody has changed my edits, I've always opened a discussion. When I've reverted a massive revert of DIREKTOR, I've immediately contacted a moderator.

4. fell free to tell me if I've recently acted bad.

For the above reason I ask my unblock and the deletion of the block from my block-log. Steel's accuses are unbiased and I can show this, it's my idea that he should apologize for his behavior, and because he wrote that "I've discredited my self". Whether I did some errors, I've always acted in GOOD FAITH. Best regards. (talk) 10:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)|decline=Your block log and ArbCom record indicates that you, like most editors involved in these silly nationalist disputes, are more likely than not a net detriment to the encyclopedia. I would have endorsed an indefinite block and find nothing in your above request that would call into question the blocking admin's judgment. Also, block log entries cannot be deleted. — [[User:Sandstein|Sandstein]] ([[User talk:Sandstein|talk]]) 11:28, 17 November 2007 (UTC)}}
{{unblock reviewed|1=I was blocked for a supposed violation that acutally I *NEVER* committed, not for a "silly dispute", that BTW is not so silly as you can suppose (just you do not know the problem). I repeat: I've NOT broken my restriction and I can provide evidences for this. I can not be judged according your own opinion about my "bad behaviors", but just for a specific violation. Actually I did no violations at all. Regards.|decline=It looks to me like you were edit warring and POV pushing, its disruptive, you should know better. — <font face="Broadway">[[User:Mr.Z-man|<font color="#056366">Mr.</font>]]''[[User talk:Mr.Z-man|<font color="#056625">'''Z-'''</font><font color="#054F66">man</font>]]</font>'' 20:17, 17 November 2007 (UTC)}}

== Gruppi di nazionalisti ==
Ciao ingegnere, hai ragione su tutti gli argomenti!!!! Il fatto che DIREKTOR e gli altri croati agiscano in gruppo è evidente e fu segnalato agli amministratori da diversi utenti italiani almeno cinque mesi addietro!!!! Poi DIREKTOR è recidivo poichè fu diffidato ma continua a modificare con assurdi punti di vista certi articoli come [[Istrian exodus]]: dev'esser bloccato e ho segnalato la situazione a Tathcher. Comunque caro Giovanni sappi che io e altri, italiani e non italiani, ci siamo accorti di questo gruppo di croati che agiscono solo nella versione in lingua inglese: ma certo è così poichè sanno che gli articoli in inglese sono letti dal maggior numero di persone! Per caso esiste una voce sui massacri delle foibe in croato, serbo e serbo-croato: non esiste poichè sanno che pur dichiarando falsità in tali articoli comunque sarebbero letti da un numero ridotto di persone. Io ti posso garantire che questa banda di croati non rappresenta il popolo croato: una mia cognata è croata di Dubrovnik e mi dice sempre che nei manuali, usati nelle scuole dell'obbligo, la storia era totalmente falsificata durante la dittatura dell'infoibatore comunista Tito ma continua a esser falsificata attualmente dagli ultranazionalisti che stanno al governo! La maggioranza dei croati sa che chi falsifica la storia ha sempre sporchi interessi! LEO, 17 nov 2007
:Grazie Leo, mi hai tirato su il morale. Sarebbe il caso di tirare le fila. Nemmeno io ce l'ho con i croati (fra cui ho per altro parte delle mie origini) e trovo che certe persone siano una vergogna per il loro stesso paese. Sappi che per aver scritto questo un certo "acciaio" mi ha bloccato, trovandolo un feroce attacco personale (sic!), fatto dopo avere ricevuto decine e decine di insulti. Non contento si è inventato dei revert inesistenti. Butta un occhio a codesto "acciaio". Ciao.--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] ([[User talk:Giovanni Giove|talk]]) 11:51, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Caro Giovanni, avevo buttato l'occhio su -acciao- prima di contattarti e posso commentare che certi amministratori si comportano in modo alquanto incomprensibile!!!! Riguardo i nazionalisti, so che Kubura provoca pure nella sezione italiana: ma questi tizi non hanno la minima credibilità!!!! Io non considero questo progetto importante quindi non m'impegno tanto ma se tu vuoi puoi segnalare questa situazione intervenendo in uno di quei convegni che gli amministratori italiani organizzano: questa banda di croati ancor più che nazionalista si dimostra anti-italiana! Un utente italiano ha dichiarato che si tratta di un gruppo organizzato e pagato da un partito politico croato: se fosse vero, ci sono gli estremi di una denuncia penale contro quel partito per incitamento all'odio razziale!!!! LEO
:Riporta il seguente insulto [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:151.67.87.93]al povero acciaio e magari a un amministratore piu' decente (ci vuole poco), per coerenza devono bloccare il 'direttore'. Come dovrebbero bloccare Zenamarth& C. per cio' che solo poche ore fa hanno scritto su di me (vedi:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dalmatian_Italians#Raguseo.2C_Mariokempes_and_DIREKTOR]) Se ti aggrada scrivi anche questo e vediamo se la coerenza esiste. Kubura è un povero sc.... ehm!... un "vecchio utente" che solo di recente ha fatto comunella con gli altri. E' perfino infantile nella sua ottusità: nega l'evidenza assoluta accecato com'è dal suo fanatismo e dal suo odio per i serbi e gli italiani. Potremmo parlare del problema sugli appositi "bar" della wiki italiana. Ora stacco per il fine... sono basito dal comportamento del "materiale a base di ferro"...--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] ([[User talk:Giovanni Giove|talk]]) 13:25, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Io ho segnalato ripetutamente tali loschi figuri croati agli amministratori della sezione in inglese e tra gli amministratori italiani certamente il più informato è Ilario. La proposta riguardo i bar della wiki italiana è da me approvata: farò una segnalazione. LEO

== How I act ==

It's a common trend among us editors to act a vandal towards a vandal. I don't mean anything by blocking your socks, but I've got to do what I've got to do. Best, --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]]) 11:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

== Wow... ==

...a fascist? That's usually a term saved just for admins. Thanks. Anyway, my sources are right here on this site. See [[Wikipedia:Guidelines]] for more. It's boring, I know, but it's full of stuff that helps both you and me be more productive instead of getting stuck in ridiculous bad-faith arguments as we are now.

As for info on Dalmatia, I'll bet the Encyclpaedia Brittannica or Encarta Online have some things supporting my claim. You must be aware, though, that I do not hold you in bad faith. I think that you're just a little misinformed (belive me, I'm not perfect either) and you just need to get your facts straight on a few things. Best, --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]]) 12:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[http://www.britannica.com/eb/article/902865/Dalmatia] It probably will turn in a 404. I'll be back in a flash. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gp75motorsports|contribs]]) 12:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Fixed. --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]]) 12:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

:Yes, I see. As for evidence of sockpuppetry, see Category:Suspected sockpuppets of Giovanni Giove. The page was created by the system as a place to record your suspcted sockpuppets. Don't worry, you're not the only one with this type of page. --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]]) 15:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

::Reason being, as you can clearly see on LEO's page, someone has expressed concern that you are a puppetmaster. We have to verify that you aren't, because no matter how honest the puppetmaster may be, we will never know unless we check you. I know that chances are that this guy is probably just a standalone, but we still have to check just in case. Trust me, I hate reporting anybody, but as an up-and-coming arbitrator, it's still my job to resolve these things. Best, --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]]) 14:34, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

:::P.S. The "Greater Croatia Assault Troupes?" Please provide me with links to their pages. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gp75motorsports|contribs]]) 14:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


::::Vandal? Oh yeah, I actually did call you that. Apparently you're not though, just a little misinformed, as I said before. And please provide me with links to these guys. I'm trying to give you a fair trial, but unless you provide me evidence that Direktor is not the only one who's a member of the Troupes, I can't, so I'll be forced to assume that you're just bad-faith POV pushing. --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]]) 14:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) This whole thing is getting a little tiring. Let's just forget about it for now. Truce? --[[User:Gp75motorsports|Gp75motorsports]] ([[User talk:Gp75motorsports|talk]]) 15:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

== Comunicare ==

Se vuoi comunicare con amministratori italiani riguardo la banda di croati anti-italiani penso che questa sia la pagina giusta[http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar/Discussioni/Qualcuno_ha_voglia_di_litigare%3F]. Ilario si riferisce a DIREKTOR. LEO, 24 nov 2007 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/151.67.86.203|151.67.86.203]] ([[User talk:151.67.86.203|talk]]) 18:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Esperimento ==

Ciao ingegnere, riguardo [[Istrian exodus]] concordo con te: quel testo è fazioso. Comunque proviamo a considerare la modifica di AlasdairGreen27 un esperimento: dobbiamo considerare che questo sloveno redige testi aggiungendo collegamenti e informazioni invece DIREKTOR ripristina solo sue versioni eliminando i nostri contributi; praticamente DIREKTOR è un troll ma lo sloveno no. T'invito a segnalare in discussione le tue proposte di modifica così potrei rendere quel testo almeno meno fazioso. Ti faccio notare che DIREKTOR pensa a noi due come fossimo una persona: perde tempo contattando alcuni amministratori per comunicare che noi siamo sockpuppet e si riferisce a noi siglandoci LEO/Giovanni. Tutto questo mi rafforza nel mio parere che DIREKTOR sia un troll o vandalo. LEO, 27 nov 2007 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/151.67.84.212|151.67.84.212]] ([[User talk:151.67.84.212|talk]]) 17:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== First world war ==

Giovanni, in response to your claim that "Not a single battle was fought in the present day primoska", first of all the region is called 'Primorska', and secondly, your view of history does not quite match the facts, I'm afraid.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/isonzo.htm

[[User:AlasdairGreen27|AlasdairGreen27]] ([[User talk:AlasdairGreen27|talk]]) 13:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

No Giovanni, Primorska is one of the seven regions of Slovenia.
http://www.kam.si/primorska.html

Perhaps you ought to check one or two things before you edit articles, especially where you obviously lack the necessary knowledge to edit accurately.
[[User:AlasdairGreen27|AlasdairGreen27]] ([[User talk:AlasdairGreen27|talk]]) 13:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not a personal attack to point out that "you obviously lack the necessary knowledge to edit accurately" where this is quite clearly true. You wrote that "Not a single battle was fought in the present day primoska" without having any knowledge about what Primorska is.
[[User:AlasdairGreen27|AlasdairGreen27]] ([[User talk:AlasdairGreen27|talk]]) 13:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

==Courtesy notification==
[[WP:ANI#Giovanni Giove (talk*contribs)|ANI thread concerning you]]. Also, as you may not have seen my note on GP75's talkpage, I'm asking you both to disengage from this discussion as there is nothing fruitful coming of it and you are both using rhetoric that, if continued, is likely going to cross the line eventually. If you don't like what GP75 is saying, do the mature thing and remove or archive his comments rather than responding in a way that could lead to you being blocked.--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Isotope23|talk]]''</sup> 15:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
:Already done, you have still to read my answer. Cheers!--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] ([[User talk:Giovanni Giove|talk]]) 15:14, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
::Yes I saw it after I posted this.--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Isotope23|talk]]''</sup> 15:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

== pazienza ==

Caro ingegnere, dobbiamo armarci di pazienza: in [[Istrian exodus]] ho integrato il tuo testo ma poi lo sloveno ha ripristinato quello precedente eliminando i nostri contributi. Ho quindi inserito gli avvisi riguardo neutralità e fonti. Poi [[user:Ko'oy]] ha ripristinato una versione simile alla tua. Suggerisco di attendere alcuni giorni discutendo nell'apposita pagina con lo sloveno per capire la sua intenzione. Consideriamo che le nostre versioni sono memorizzate e le possiamo ripristinare quando vogliamo ma per adesso è meglio cercare dialogo e comprensione. Puoi leggere [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement#Giovanni Giove|questo messaggio e quello successivo]] per considerare che i troll o vandali purtroppo sono tanti!!!! LEO, 28 nov 2007 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/151.67.85.5|151.67.85.5]] ([[User talk:151.67.85.5|talk]]) 18:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:You should try [[WP:TALK#Good practice|writing in English]] here LEO; writing in Italian makes it look like you are trying to hide something (and no, I'm not asking for a translation... I know reasonably well what the above says).--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Isotope23|talk]]''</sup> 20:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Isotope23, I am a native speaker of Italian and my English is not good. LEO, 29 nov 2007
::I understand, but my point is that there is often a perception that other languages are used to "hide" conversation from editors who don't speak that language. Nothing you've said above is sinister in any way, but the intent could easily be misperceived... or mistranslated to mean something you didn't intend. It's just a suggestion, supported by our talkpage guidelines here at Wikipedia (and apologies to Giovanni for using his talkpage to communicate with another editor).--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Isotope23|talk]]''</sup> 13:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Leo, I have read your message to Giovanni. Thank you for your patience and forbearance. I agree that dialogue and understanding are the way forward. I am ready to discuss any aspect of this article with you and Giovanni. He, however, as you can see, made a total of 17 edits to it this afternoon, without consultation, which is why I have restored the previous version. I have also added some of the citations that Giovanni asked for.
I think if you read the version as it is now, I hope you see it is neutral. Please let me know what changes you think are appropriate.
[[User:AlasdairGreen27|AlasdairGreen27]] ([[User talk:AlasdairGreen27|talk]]) 20:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Slovenian friend, we can discuss in talk page of article. LEO, 29 nov 2007

I'll be happy to do so. [[User:AlasdairGreen27|AlasdairGreen27]] ([[User talk:AlasdairGreen27|talk]]) 12:30, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

== Temporary block ==

<div class="user-block"> [[Image:Stop x nuvola with clock.svg|40px|left]] {{{{{subst|}}}#if:one week|You have been '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing for a period of '''one week'''|You have been temporarily '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing}} in accordance with [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|Wikipedia's blocking policy]] for {{{{{subst|}}}#if:violating [[WP:3RR|the three revert rule]], and repeated [[WP:CIV|incivility]]|'''violating [[WP:3RR|the three revert rule]], and repeated [[WP:CIV|incivility]]'''|repeated [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|abuse of editing privileges]]}}. Please stop. You're welcome to [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|make ''useful'' contributions]] after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may [[Wikipedia:Appealing a block|contest this block]] by adding the text <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "nowiki" tags. --><nowiki>{{</nowiki>unblock|''your reason here''<nowiki>}}</nowiki><!-- Do not include the "nowiki" tags. --> below. {{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{sig|}}}|&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Coren|Coren]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User Talk:Coren|(talk)]]</sup> 16:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)}}</div><!-- Template:uw-block2 -->

As an aside, you are skirting the gray area of your revert parole, and have been warned repeatedly. I would ''strongly'' suggest you reexamine your behavior if you wish to contribute positively to the encyclopedia. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Coren|Coren]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User Talk:Coren|(talk)]]</sup> 16:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
:That is simply false. You do not know the question and moderator Steel acted in a biased way. I DID several important contribution to this enciclpedia, but I am not protect against an organized group of users!--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 16:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
::The reason ''I'' have blocked you is simply that your have broken [[WP:3RR|the three revert rule]] at the [[:Talk:Birth Place of Marco Polo]] page. But I cannot help but notice this is the ''eight'' time you have been blocked, and by ''six'' different administrators. This hardly looks like the isolated actions of a single, biased admin. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Coren|Coren]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User Talk:Coren|(talk)]]</sup> 16:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
::: Wiki rules say that I can delete personal attacks: it is my right! and the users always insult me. This time he called me ridiculous, but I was discussing in a civil way. I was NOT blocked eight time, because the log is affected by recognised errors. $ block were caused by Steel! Furthermore all my real block are caused by just 2 users: one is [[user:Afrika_paprika]], the second is [[user:DIREKTOR]], they occurred under extreme circumstances, against extreme users. I am a CIVIL users, allow me to work in peace! It is MY RIGHT to be protected but I repeat that I was left ALONE against a dozen of fanatics, that try to prevent me from edits, with insults and edit wars. Why am I not protect from the insults I receive?! Why Steel never did an action against Zem., when he insults me and accuse me of sock puppetry. It IS MY RIGHT TO DELETE INSULTS from talk pages! and the 3RR is NOT valid in this case! Insults and personal attacks are nothing, and they can be deleted in each moment! Just read the wiky rules.[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 16:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
:::: Kindly stop ''constantly'' accusing me of causing your blocks, not only do I revert only ONCE PER WEEK (because you were unable to keep our deal, see ''Resolution proposal'' section, here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Giovanni_Giove#Resolution_proposal]), but I also had absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of your '''10''' blocks, including this one. Also, there are NO mistakes (nor ''can'' there be any) in the block log. --<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 18:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

{{unblock reviewed|1=the present block is the direct consequence of the bad faith of user Steel, who act in biased way. I was left ALONE against a dozen of users, who are again and again, insulting me, accusing me of sockpuppetry and other. The moderator Steel never spent a word against them. He protect the group against me, but he never try a moderation! In the group there are several fanatic nationalist and problematic users, and this is well know by Moderator Steel, that nevertheless is concerned only against me. I've started to discuss with him, but he didn't answered and he asked my block. He abuses of his role!|decline=I see several instances in which you removed comments as 'personal attacks' which were not clearly personal attacks, but simply another user disagreeing with you. If you find it difficult to cope with participating in the sometimes heated environment of articles like [[Istrian exodus]] and [[Birth Place of Marco Polo]], when your block expires, you might choose to edit articles that need improvement but are less controversial, so you can avoid these strong disagreements. [[Toast]] and [[Puppy]] could use expansion. — [[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 17:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)}}
{{unblock reviewed|1=to remove a false accusation of sockuppetry for 2 time in Istrian exodus, it is not to romove a comments. In MP birthplace, I've removed the edits of an user calling "ridiculous" my edits and others. He can answer in a civil way. I dp not find difficult with partecipating if ALL the users act in a civil way. Anyway you do not the question at all.|decline=decline per FisherQueen's comments above and below. All these blocks from different admins are not coinicidence and you to learn to resist the urge to behave in the way you have been (incivility, revert wars, etc. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Rlevse|<span style="color:#060;">'''''R''levse'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)}}
:Please don't edit what I said. As you probably know, we don't edit other people's comments. This is an example of you removing something that isn't a personal attack, but just something you don't like. Doing it doesn't make your case stronger. -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 18:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
:: I NEVER reverted something that I do not like: provide your apologies.--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 16:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)<br /> Really, Giovanni? What about this then? [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Giovanni_Giove&diff=174366797&oldid=174366552]<br />[[User:AlasdairGreen27|AlasdairGreen27]] 16:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
::: IT seems the edit where you suggest me to "go in the evening school". I just reverted personal attacks,--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 10:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Page protected to prevent unblock abuse.<span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Rlevse|<span style="color:#060;">'''''R''levse'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

:Following discussion at [[WP:ANI#Giovanni Giove (redux)]] (permanent link: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=174891779#Giovanni_Giove_.28redux.29], I have extended the block to indef again. Giovanni, you are now banned for exhausting the community's patience. [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 19:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I have tagged his user page and added him to [[WP:BANNED]]. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Rlevse|<span style="color:#060;">'''''R''levse'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:49, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
:: I can show the errors in any moment. I NEVER committed the 3RR of the 2nd and 3d blocks.--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 10:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)



== Revisione ==

Ciao ingegnere, sto cercando d'informarmi affinchè ci sia una revisione della decisione di messa al bando contro di te. Francamente non capisco perchè alcuni amministratori abbiano deciso così poichè nella sezione italiana la procedura è diversa ossia c'è un voto di tutti gli utenti registrati che vogliano partecipare per mettere al bando qualcuno. Tutta questa vicenda è proprio strana. LEO, 1 dic 2007

Caro ingegnere, la revisione è possibile: puoi leggere [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Giovanni Giove (redux)|in fondo a questa sezione]]. LEO, 2 dic 2007

: LEO, even though you may feel inclined to be biased towards him, I think you too can objectively see that he did repeatedly breach his ARBCOM restriction. --<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 17:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

:: Leo, Please look at the way he spoke to people. To him, every comment was a personal attack. You couldn't disagree with him at all - he'd just say "personal attack". It was terrible.<br />Wiki relies on achieving consensus, often from radically different people, with views that are diametrically opposed. Giovanni is just not a consensus person. That's his nature. <br /> [[User:AlasdairGreen27|AlasdairGreen27]] 21:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

AlasdairGreen27 and DIREKTOR, I think so: friend Giovanni is in good faith!!!! LEO, 2 December 2007

: LEO, friend Giovanni was ''restricted,'' not by me, but by the ARBITRATION COMMITTEE. He breached that restriction constantly, he was banned. End of story. --<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 15:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Leo, la restrizione è stata causata dal fatto che Steel ha '''mentito''' sulle mie azioni, dichiarando che ho cominciato a fare RV sui commenti che "non mi piacevano". Tu sai benissimo che ho cominciato a eliminare solo e soltanto i commenti ne quali venivo offeso o insultato, o accusato di sockpuppetry. E' da notare che nella sua infinita malafede l'utente Steel non ha mai intrapreso azioni di moderazioni contro la banda di croati, concentrandosi sulle mie pagliuzze e ignorando le loro travi. Il moderatore tatcher deve essere informato che è stato gabbato su questo punto. Io chiedevo solo di poter lavorare in pace senza essere insultato. Tuttavia sono stato tacciato di "incivile" per aver scritto UNA sola volta in una talk page che "certi utenti sono una vergogna per il loro stesso paese", le offese e le menzogne dei croati venivano non solo ignorate da steel, ma perfino ristabilite quando provvedevo a cancellarle. Non sono nemmeno stato consultato per la mia restrizione permanente, che è avventuta in totale contrasta alle decisioni dell'Arbcom, su proposta dell'infame steel. Lo stessa ci aveva già provato pochi giorni fa, per due RV che non avevo commesso (!) e per quella frase sulla "vergogna". Sono stato inoltre tacciato di inciviltà per aver scritto piu' volte "vergogna" quando eliminavo menzogne e 0 insulti. Una sola volta ho usato il termine "poveri idioti" quando ho tolto l'etichetta di "sockpuppet" che i croati avevano messo sulla mia pagina. Trai da solo le tue conclusioni sull'onestà di questo infame moderatore e sulle sue reali motivazioni. Fai presente i numerosi commenti che gli stessi hanno usato negli ultimi giorni e che sono stati totalmente ignorati. Da un anno ero la sola voce che contrastava validamente un infame castello di menzogne che vengono spacciate come "storia", chiediti perche' io sia stato bloccato. I moderatori onesti devono aprire gli occhi! Ciao Leo e in gamba, non ci piegheranno, perche' noi non siamo mai stati e non saremo mai gli alfieri della menzogna.[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 16:38, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

: Its obvious, Giovanni, that you don't even know what a restriction ''is.'' Please note: a '''restriction''' is not a '''block''', or a '''ban'''. An Arbitration Committee (started by Isotope, not Steel) restriction does not prevent you from editing, it just prevents you from ''reverting.'' <br>
: You were restricted to '''1 (one, uno) revert per week, per article, with discussion''', something I tried to prevent by calling a ceasefire (see Resolution proposal). <br>
: You reverted MORE than '''once per week , per article''', and you didn't discuss nearly enough. This happened SEVERAL times, so you were banned. That's all!
: So PER FAVORE, stop accusing other people (like Steel, or me) for this. Your ban is entirely yours. --<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 11:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

::I did not ask your opinion, dear. --[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 11:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

: ("dear" sounds very strange in English, did you know that?) Anyway, this is not my oppinion, this is simple fact. --<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 11:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
::I do not think so, I thought is common. In Italian is common,..... a little bit "sarcastic". I will start a memorial. I suppos I will be unblocked after. I know you miss me,.... dear.--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 09:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

== WARNING ABOUT Sockpupetry ==
Several users, use this page to accuse me of sockpuppetry. The users shall ask a check user if they have a suspect. They are not allow to use this page to accuse me of sockpuppettry. I've deleted all the accuse, and I will revert all the future accuses. When my alleged sockpuppetry will be supported, that will be properly reported, not before! Stop to bother me--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 11:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

==[[Wikipedia:Sock puppet|Sockpuppetry]] case==
{| align="left"
|| [[Image:Puppeter template.svg|50px]]
|}
You have been accused of [[Wikipedia:Sock puppet|sockpuppetry]]. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Giovanni Giove (4th)]] for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry/Notes for the suspect|notes for the suspect]] before editing the evidence page.{{do not delete}} [[User:AlasdairGreen27|AlasdairGreen27]] 21:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
:You have no the right to put such accused on my talk page. It's the 10th time I've been accused... each time the result was "not guilty". Go on in loosing your time, and discrediting yourself. When one can not win with his ideas, he's forced to "win" with lies.....--[[User:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove]] 09:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
== DO NOT EDIT THIS SECTION: Review==

WORK IN PROGRESS do not place comments in this section
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Franciscus_Patricius&limit=500&action=history]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Franciscus_Patricius&diff=91637495&oldid=91637482][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGiovanni_Giove&diff=92857556&oldid=92365914]
# 09:19, 2 December 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Requests for page protection‎ (Francesco Patrizi)
# 14:48, 29 November 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia talk:Requests for administrator attention‎ (→User:Giovanni Giove)
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Giovanni_Giove&diff=prev&oldid=119767268][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steel359&diff=next&oldid=143157563]

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marko_Maruli%C4%87&action=history][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steel359&diff=prev&oldid=143154192]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiorgioOrsini&diff=prev&oldid=143155963#indefblocked]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steel359&diff=prev&oldid=143483872]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Asterion#GiorgioOrsini]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=174399612]

Revision as of 15:14, 4 December 2007

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