Talk:The eXile

Please keep the obvious libel off this page. I believe that I have gone through all the proper channels to have this removed, and that the removal of an obvious libel is completely in sinq with Wikipedia policy.

Thanks, Peter D. Ekman

• I disagree. Blanking entire sections is not a proper channel, nor in sync with wikipedia practices. As an easy criticism: you removed the section about the eXile book, but this doesn't appear to have anything to do with the "libel" you claim exists. This and the repeated bad-faith nominations to AfD (1, 2) indicate a clear vendetta against the eXile, which is not surprising given who you are. However, wikipedia is not a place to push one's own personal agenda, and I think you'll find many people here are in fact encouraged into vigilance by attempts to censor content. The repeated blanking is thus not only non-productive and not in line with the wikipedia spirit, but probably counter-productive to your goals!

As for the libel being "obvious", I and others just don't see it that way. It seems to me that the section simply reports on something that the eXile has published, and that you have denied. Elaborating on why you think this is libelous, or (much better) improving the text so that it is agreeable to everyone, would be a much better way to proceed. Most of us are interested in building a comprehensive encyclopedia, not in personally attacking you. — brighterorange (talk) 01:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

• I also disagree. No one is doing anything to this article to spite you. Don't turn this into a personal matter. There is information on wikipedia that you don't like. If you want to improve it, by all means go ahead and do so. If it's inaccurate, provide proof. If you consider something libelous, support your allegations. But considering that this entire time you've been absolutely alone in all your allegations, I would suggest trying to get some sort of consensus on the talk page before touching the main article in the future. Remember, it's not up to you to decide what is up on wikipedia or not. It's up to the community. Not one single person has agreed with your edits, or supported your point of view so far. Like you said, you did go through all the proper channels, in addition to the improper ones; and all of them turned you down. Didn't they?

Images

Can we use one of the covers on the website? I'm guessing they're copyrighted Dsol 16:26, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Necessary Content

I see a number of things that I think we should to add to this article. 1) I think we need to have some more representative links to eXile material.

2) the pranks section is desperately in need of information since it doesn't come close to describing the spirit of the eXile. We at least need to talk about: a) Hitting New York Timesman Michael Wines in the face with a horse semen filled cream pie. b) the meta-prank where the eXile accepted responsibility for a notorious bogus fax that it didn't send and earned condemnation from US Represenative Bonilla. c) The Buns McGillicuddy "Touch my Buns" prank where an eXile intern successfully posed as an international nightclubbing celebrity. d) The Gorbechev/New York Jets prank. . . There are some other ones, too, but I can't think of them right now.

3) an Enemies list detailing those with whom the eXile has a contentious relationship with: Michael McFaul, Michael Bass, Michael Wines, Fred Hiatt, Victor Davis Hanson, ... this list is actually very long now that I think about it.

Regarding

"The accusations of fascism were discounted by many in part because of the eXile's Jewish roots - Ames, along with the eXile's publisher, deputy editor and several contributors are all Jews - and because of the paper's satirical editorial bent"

I agree that this info should go in, but it sounds kind of like opinion (espcially the "by many") and should be sourced. Also I think the main point is satire, not the fact that someone is Jewish (anyone can be a fascist). On another note, I intend to add some more to this section when I have time. Dsol 17:43, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Deletion

This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 07:35, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

It survived a second nomination as well. — brighterorange (talk) 01:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Salnikov/Brecher

Regarding the recent change by 212.46.255.138, I don't see why the fact that the identities of Brecher and Salnikov are dispute should be left out. I'm reverting in 24 hrs if no explanation, till then realphabetizing the list. Dsol 13:40, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

RE: Salnikov/Brecher

In answer to above, it makes this alleged "dispute" the primary important piece of information on these two. The "dispute" in each case is almost non-existent in the larger body of web discussion on them, though it does arise in perhaps 1% of the total info out there or less. More accurate to keep this "dispute" to each one's page, rather than making it the primary relevant bit that distinguishes them.

The larger body of web discussion on them? The fact is that absolutely nothing concrete is known about either. I don't mind leaving it as it is for now, but after cleaning up Brecher's article a bit and making one for Salnikov, I'd like to revisit this issue later. At the very least we might put a footnote on their names. Dsol 11:58, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Edits by Clarence Thomas

Great work overall. Especially the extra pranks etc., I'm glad someone did this as I've been meaning to for a while but way too lazy. Two minor changes I'm going to make though 1)Rename "Johnson's Russia List" Prank to Ekman Prank, the list plays only a minor role 2)Take out the links to the articles for sexist, otherwise objectionable, etc. If someone has made a statement that those articles are those things, then we need a link to that statement. To make an unsourced blanket statement about sexism etc. and back it up with links to eXile articles is orignal research.

I also would like to add the Combed Over prank [1] if I have time. Dsol 15:10, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Regarding the links on "sexist, racist, otherwise objectionable":

Basically, I think the exile isn't so much "sexist" or "racist" as it is rude, blunt, and willing to use stereotypes when they fit. There's a reactionary association with the labels "sexist" and "racist" and this clearly isn't the case here. I think people should be provided with specific examples of the kinds of content that people might find objectionable so they can decide for themselves.

Clarence Thomas

Libel

I deleted the inacurate and libelous material about me in this article. I think the whole article should be deleted as it is just an advert for a very low class newspaper. I deleted the listing of the exile's book, this was pure advertisement. Sincerely, Peter Ekman

Dear Mr. Ekman,

I restored the content in reference to you since the article clearly describes the eXile's allegations about you as such, and qualifies them with adjectives such as "unsubstantiated" and "unverified." Since the article is merely describing what the eXile said without making any claims, implicit or explicit, about the eXile's accuracy, the wikipedia article cannot be libelous.

As you know, whether or not a subject is "very low class" or not does not determine the subject's suitability for Wikipedia. Since the article survived a vote for deletion last summer (100% voting to keep) I believe it has been established that the eXile magazine is a worthy subject. If you think there are problems with the eXile article, then why not help us write a better one? That seems to me like a constructive way to handle your objections.

We welcome your help.

Clarence Thomas

Repeating a libel and then saying - of course this is unfounded and has no justification, we're just reporting what was said - is simply a ruse. There is no purpose for including the statement, except to continue the libel. If a statement libels somebody and is unfounded then it should be deleted. The entire purpose of the exile is "Sex, Drugs, and Libel" according to the title of it's own editors' book. I will pursue this, through the proper channels until the libel is permanently removed. I'm sure Wikipedia has lawyers, who will recognize the statement in question as libel, so you will lose. The libel will be permanently removed.

Mr Peter Ekman,

Wikipedia has a policy against the use of legal threats, so I hope you will instead abide by Wikipedia's policies for resolving disputes. I believe we can work out any differences on this page.

Let me address your concerns regarding libel. Libel has a legal defintion, and this definition specifically excludes facts from being considered libelous. This definition is not "a ruse," this is a well-established legal precedent. If you cannot find factually incorrect claims being made by the article itself, then I would ask that you cease accusing the authors of this page of illegal conduct.

If you can find libelous statements, please correct only those statements without eliminating swaths of valuable content. Since we seem to disagree about what constitutes libel, it would be constructive for you to explicitly list the offending claims here in the talk page. I believe this will expedite a resolution.

Finally, this article has already survived a vote for deletion a few months back. If you cannot demonstrate why the previous vote was flawed, then I am going to ask you to stop trying to delete this page.

Again, we invite you to make constructive contributions to our resource, but please respect the rules of Wikipedia and of other Wikipedians.

Clarence Thomas

I've made no legal threats here, I've simply identified an obvious case of libel. I will continue to try to work through the Wikipedia system. I haven't "eliminated swaths of valuable content" - only about 2 paragraphs of pure libel that have something like "of course this is completely unsubstantiated" appended at the end. Very clearly the wording of this section is a transparent ruse, used to pretend that it is a statement of fact. Since the personal attack is completely unsubstantiated, I believe that Wikipedia rules say that it should be deleted.

 I am under no obligation to dignify an obvious case of libel, by trying to refute

individual parts of the whole. The whole thing is libel, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, and untrue.

Mr. Peter Ekman,

I am going to insist that you abide by the Three Revert Rule. You have made seven revisions to the eXile page in the past day. This is becoming egregious. Please note that violating the three revert rule is grounds for being banned from wikipedia.

You claim that you are under no obligation to "dignify" an "obvious case of libel." Mr. Ekman, we are governed by consensus here. You do have an obligation to justify your actions, especially when these actions are called into question. We expect anybody who makes accusations of criminal libel against other wikipedia authors to, at the very least, be able to name the libel they believe took place.

Clarence Thomas