User talk:Jidan

Welcome!

Hello, Jidan, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Please don't use the article mainspace for tests. Do so in your own userspace if you wish (like User:Jidan/test). Otherwise Welcome to Wikipedia! We are glad to have you! If you have any questions feel free to ask! Gkhan 20:48, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

Why do you think the Azd tribe still exists today?Yuber^(talk) 23:16, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

I thought that this tribe still exists in yemen, but I was wrong. Only the family name still exists.Jidan 01:24, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

preventive warning

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.

I'm warning both you, User:MB, User:ManiF and User:Zmmz. I'm not going pick sides here as there is some truth in everbodies arguments. However your collective actions are damaging the articles. If you truly are intresting in writing a good and objective on al-Khwarizmi you will stop editing and take your differences to talk page and discuss things civily. And please thouroughly read through WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:NOR and stop all the speculations and citing of websites and other encyclopedias. And please do go out to the library and find some books on him and see what the historians have to say on this matter. Cheers, —Ruud 23:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Dynamic synchronous Transfer Mode

Your article Dynamic synchronous Transfer Mode has appeared in the Dead End Pages list because it is not wikified. Please consult the Wikipedia Guide to Layout for more information on how to write a good, wikified article. I would encourage you to revisit your submissions and {{wikify}} them. Thanks and happy editing! James084 14:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Al-Kindī

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--Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 13:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Please leave the categories alone; if you continue to remove legitimate categories for PoV reasons, you may end up being blocked from editing for a while.

No, its not for PoV reasons, its for scientifc reasons. Jidan 18:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

That is nonsense, I'm afraid. There are no "scientific reasons" for removing categories. Your claim in your edit summary was: "Al-kindi was a scientist! Being shia or sunni muslim has no relevance". First, it's relevant to his philosophy, for which he's at least as important. Secondly, dates of birth and death, nationalities, etc., are also irrelevant to being a scientist; why did you only remove the categories that involve his being Sunni (not even the categories that refer to him as a Muslim scientist, etc.)? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:37, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

At the time of al-kindi, being shia or sunni meant only if you want the caliph to be a descendent of ali or not, its not the shia we know today, which was largely created by the 15th Safavid dynasty to isolate themselves from the sunni ottomans.Anyway, its a minor thing and i will not change it in the future.Jidan 20:43, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Jabir_ibn_hayyan.jpg

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Ibn Nadeem

I dont have the book at my personal disposal, but our library has it [1]. If you need me to check on something, it will be a while. I only visit the library once every few months. (for occupational reasons)--Zereshk 02:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

There is also an English translation for the book available, by Bayard Dodge, (New York, Columbia University Press, 1970.)--Zereshk 02:29, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Zereshk! I was hoping you might have it as a pdf! I was able to download half of the book by emule, 3 months ago, but the user went offline and never went online again ;-(. I am talking here about the original arabic version. Jidan 03:30, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Jidan I need your help

al-Khwarizmi article is being continuosly edited to put al-Khwarizmi as Persian, I need you to help me put an end to this. Also, do you know how to end an adminship of a wikipedian? MB 22:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Dont worry, I am having an eye on that! I know enough to prove that he is not persian. And i have non-arab friends that study islamic history and they back me. Jidan 22:40, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

re: Arabic-English translation

Thanks, I suspected he forgot that one because of the word count. I would still be interested to know what the text at the bottom says, though. Cheers, —Ruud 01:03, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Arab (Persian-born) seesm like a reasonable compromise and is supported by the sources provided so far. I'm not allowed to use my admin powers to interfere here. I will be contacting two professors in the history of mathematics (oen who specializes in islamic mathematics) soon to hear what they have to say about this. Cheers, —Ruud 01:07, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

my 2nd propoposal

Hi, have you had time to read my second proposal for the introduciton yet (Talk:Al-Khwarizmi#Proposed_introduction_by_User:R._Koot_.282.29). It sasy he was of Persian encestry (which you don't dispute, right?) but lived in the Arab culture, which seems to be the core of the problem. Zmmz reluctantly accepted it, so please consider it. Cheer, —Ruud 11:22, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Whats the problem with Zora's version? Its introduction is very open and very unbiased. Saying that he was born in baghdad or khwarzim, indicates he may be arab,persian, or turk. And do you think the turks will accept the "persian ancestory" part? I dont think so! Thats why I think Zora's version is the most "open" and same time informative version! Jidan 11:44, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I think Zora's version is fine but that's exaclty how it was before this dispute started (User:MB didn't like it). Also al-K was Persian or Arab but not Turk (at least I've never heard or read anyone refereing to him as a Truk except for User:Rgulerdem). So to return the question... what do you think is wrong with my second proposal (I'm always open for suggestions). —Ruud 15:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

If you mean like: arab mathematican with persian ancestory , then OK! Jidan 19:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Your last revert at al-Khwarizmi

With your last revert at al-K you did not only 125.247.105.242's changes but all my changes as well. Please be more careful in the future. —Ruud 19:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Look, I'm actually trying to write a biography here and I really don't care about the sad war all of you are fighting over his etnicity. Like I've said to Mani just change Muslim to Arab or whatever you like but please don't destroy the text the readers are actually interested in. —Ruud 19:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

OK Jidan 19:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

So, could you undo your revert for me so I can continue? —Ruud 19:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Ruud, you have worked on the version which ManiF reverted, and by that you wiped off the work of 2 hours by me and others with a simple mouse click!(look at history). You can do with the article now what you want! Jidan 20:05, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

First of all, this is a not a battlefield, there is no war, we are all mature individuals having a discussion. Second of all, average reader would regard "Al Khwarizmi" as an Arabic name and and the name is also posted only in Arabic besides the Latin version, so mentioning the man's origin is very important not to confuse the reader. Also, saying he's of Persian origin is not the same thing as saying he's Persian. If you like Zora's version, then rewrite it so it sounds more encyclopedic, edit out the Turkish part which is historically impossible and is not even part of the dispute, and then propose it and have it discussed on talk BEFORE POSTING it so we can all reach a consensus on it and get this over with. Otherwise, this will go on forever. --ManiF 16:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

If you'd like to talk to me then please stay civil and do not make accusations and personal attacks against me. --ManiF 16:31, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

To add a whole new section full of speculations which are not encyclopedic, you'd first have to propose it and discuss it on talk. --ManiF 17:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Jidan

Hey..did you know that your name means 'serious' in Persian? Jed-dan or jid-dan! maybe it has connections to Arabic, I don't know --Kash 20:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hehe interesting. My name comes from Xerxes I I think it means 'Ruler of the heroes' :) --Kash 23:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Ooh look what we have here, a comedian! :) --Kash 23:25, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Jidan

Unfortunately I know exactly the kind of people you are talking about and they are very annoying I agree!

However please keep in mind that people from all backgrounds, including Arabs, are sometimes doing the same thing.

and a few outsiders like Zora are attacking and questioning anything that Persian editors say and they justify it by claiming that all Persians are brainwashed and racists and nationalists!

It is really wrong that just because a few idiot Persians exist out there, all of us have to be labeled “extreme nationalist and racist." So believe me I am frustrated too!

Gol means FLOWER in Persian and yes I am a girl. What Arab country are you from? One of my good friends is from Jordan.Gol 13:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

hehe! That does sound like a comment an idiot Iranian likes to make!! Of course these comments were much more frequent before 1979 but you can here them even today in Iran. I am curious when did you visit Iran?

Thank you for the compliment. I am very interested in history and especially that of Middle East.

Gol 02:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Warning

Hi, please know that you cannot call others names, or attack anyone here in Wiki, just stick to talking about the article itself. Also, please know that erasing an entire section that comes with a valid references, or refusing to accept any references, can be considered a form of vandalism, and it also violates the NPOV policy. [2] Thank youZmmz 08:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

User:Diyako is trying to make an alternative ficticious definition of Newroz

User:Diyako has created an article on a Turkic-Nowruz without mention of its Iranian history and roots. Soon we will here Nowruz has nothing to do with Iran too. His article is Nevruz. This should be merged or edited properly. He has gone on the Turkish discussions to promote it.

Here is what user:Diyako has written;

Nevruz is the spring festival among Turkic-speaking nations, from Turkey to Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc. It is very similar to the Iranian festival of Norouz.

According to Turkish legends Nevruz dates back to era of Gökturks.

Th user Diyako is definnityl anti-Iranian and has an anti-Iranian agenda.

Nevruz is not very similar to the Irnian festival of Norouz it is Norouz!

He has claimed the Kurdish flag has nothing to do with Iran and is a crime to fly in Iran. The Kurdish flag is based on the Iranian flag it is even in the memories of the founders of the Mehbad Republic who wanted to showcase their Aryan and Mede heritage. Back then Kurds only had a oral history about their only know ancestors the Mede and Mede heritage, before other ancestors were accepted. The Sun is also very significant element of ancient Iranian and Zorasatrianism. Diyako is misleading everyone. Go to Kurdistan 20 years ago let alone 50 they will say we are Aryans and our own blood relatives are the Persians. The Kurdish flag is not banned in Iran and is based on Iranian colours. This user also claims the Iranians are only a lingustic group after he saw that the tide was against him that Kurds are in definition an Iranian people so he worked to undermine the definition of Iranian people and even Persians with user:Acuman.

69.196.139.250 21:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

templates substituted by a bot as per Wikipedia:Template substitution Pegasusbot 04:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Ibn Khaldun

Could you keep an eye on this article? Some people are trying to remove the dispute tag without even answering the questions. Aucaman^Talk 01:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Could you also ask for help? I'm afraid some users only respond to numbers. Aucaman^Talk 04:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

"List of Arab Scientists"

Many of the scientists you have included in that list are are either not Arab ( Khwarizmi and Karaji) or may not have been Arab (Gaber and Alhazan ). If you want to include these people in your list without any objections from my side, then move the page to "List of Muslim Scientists" or "List of Arabic-speaking Scientists". --ManiF 05:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

If you want to avoid controversy and conflict, then just move the page to "List of Muslim Scientists", and I'll even help you expand it. --ManiF 05:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Read NPOV, you can not label people who are not Arabs as Arabs. --ManiF 05:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

And while you are it, read WP:VANDAL and understand what vandalism means before making accusations and threats. --ManiF 05:27, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Reply

Hi Jidan,

I see what you mean. However, most Persians see these people as ethnically and culturally Persian. That's why I think it would make a good compromise if we have the disputed people in a different section.

Here's another suggestion: if you still think it's a good idea to include all these people perhaps you could change the title to "List of Muslim scientists and scholars".

As for the List of Iranian scientists and scholars page, we'll have to fix that one up as well. --Khoikhoi 06:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Re:Arab scientists

Salam,

I'm glad you created that list. Anyway, I'm of Yemeni descent, it's nice to meet a fellow Yemeni.--Inahet 07:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I can relate, I wanted to write and improve Yemen-related articles but I also got sucked into editing Arab scientists articles. I thought about creating a Yemen regional notice board but I didn't think anyone else would be interested. How about a regional board concerning the entire Arab world? Tell me what you think. --Inahet 02:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Attempt to circumvent process

This is not the appropriate way to go about things. Firstly, there was no discussion about that information, so you can hardly say that it would be deleted (and even if it was being deleted, you need to work with other editors to discuss the information). Trying to 'hide' part of an article somewhere in an attmept to circumvent the process of gaining consensus is out of line. Secondly, making accusations about "Nationalist Iranians" is also completely innapropriate. Wikipedia guidelines dictate that we discuss article content, not other users. Please try to remain civil in future discussions. --InShaneee 19:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I understand your frustration, and I do agree there is a problem here, but how it is addressed is key. First of all, you must assume good faith at all times, which means discussion what they do, not who they are or why they're doing it. If you have a problem with their edits, or you would like to insert an edit of your own that seems to be getting removed, discuss its merits on the article talk page. If, after extensive discussion, you seem to be at a deadlock, take a look at this page (which goes through the whole process in greater detail than I ever could). If you've truly exaughsted all discussion options, the steps there (especially mediation and request for comment) are the best way to proceed. But above all, you must respect other editors and remain civil, and I say again, discuss the articles and edits themselves, not who made them or what 'agenda' they might have had in making them. --InShaneee 21:13, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, please take notice of wikipedia's 3 revert rule, which says that you may not re-add information to a page more than 3 times a day except in cases of VERY obvious vandalism (ie, "so-and-so is poop", ect). This is simply to prevent edit wars and to encourage more discussion of content. However, you may be blocked temporarily if you violate it. --InShaneee 21:16, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Reply

Hmmm... InShaneee is pretty neutral, it looks like you've already contacted him. I told Kash that the move was made to early, and explained that the "consensus" is too controversial. Another admin you might try is Alex Bakharev. --Khoikhoi 05:36, 5 April 2006 (UTC)