User talk:Lochdale

A welcome from Sango123

Hello, Lochdale, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Happy Wiki-ing!

-- Sango123 16:03, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you need help with anything or simply wish to say hello. :)

---

There has been a lengthy and exhausting discussion at Talk:Abraham Lincoln and now at Talk:Elvis Presley and its archived Talk pages surrounding the exact same issue as was discussed and voted upon already on the Abraham Lincoln matter. Because this has the potential to create a new standard for what is acceptable Wikipedia sources, I thought that you might want to be aware of it. If the policy consensus arrived at on the Abraham Lincoln issue is set aside in the Presley article it will result in new ones for countless others. I think the existing determination of what constitutes a proper source should be defined by the Wikipedia community and set as firm policy which would go a long way in helping to substantially reduce the tiresome and repeated edit wars. Thank you for your interest. Please note I have left the same message for others who worked on this matter. Ted Wilkes 20:42, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Your comment at Talk:Larry Bird

I noticed that you replied to another user's comment at Talk:Larry Bird. You also attempted to sign it with [[Lochdale]]. A couple of suggestions:

1. To refer to your WP account, you need to use [[user:Lochdale]]. A far easier way to sign is to enter four tilde's (~~~~), which will be turned into a signature containing your id and a date/time stamp. This can also be done with the second button from the right on at the top of the editing window.
2. When replying to another user's comments, it is customary to indent your reply by putting a colon (:) at the beginning of your comment. If you are replying to a reply, you can use ::, and so forth. I took the liberty of indenting your response.

If you have any questions, please leave a message on my talk page. Thanks. --rogerd 00:51, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Elvis, etc.

No problem. It's just one more reason for edit summaries. Cheers! Deltabeignet 05:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Accusations by User:Onefortyone against you

I just came across this. - Ted Wilkes 15:37, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Elvis Presley

It might not have been your intent, but you recently removed content from Elvis Presley. Please be careful not to remove content from Wikipedia without a valid reason, which you should specify in the edit summary or on the article's talk page. Thank you. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. AmiDaniel (Talk) 22:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC) Not vandalism, misunderstood content dispute. AmiDaniel (Talk) 22:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for my reversion as I see that you made this edit in good faith and in the interest of improving the article. In the future, please use edit summaries as they alert others of the changes you have made and will help to prevent your edits from being erroneously reverted. AmiDaniel (Talk) 22:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Elvis Presley

Thanks for the message. In theory, the page could be protected, but I think the problem can be contained by reversion. I've added the page to my watchlist, and encourage you to do the same. Deltabeignet 05:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Deletions

• 22 July: you delete the whole "Male friendships" section, with no edit summary.
• 24 July: you delete the whole "Male friendships" section, with no edit summary.
• 25 July: you delete the whole "Male friendships" section, with no edit summary.

When you delete material, please say so. Thank you. -- Hoary 05:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Careful with edit warring on Elvis Presley

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.

While I appreciate your view, edit warring is not the way to solve this dispute. Please be careful not to violate the three-revert rule.

Thanks!

--Pcj 19:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I understand, and if you'll notice, I've participated in the debate myself. But constantly reverting the page to the version you prefer won't solve anything. I have tried to contact some people about Onefortyone's probation, to no avail. Maybe it's time for mediation...

--Pcj 22:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

See [1].

--Pcj 19:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I wouldn't dare to advise you on how to respond. But there is a reason that the administrator blocked him and not you; I'd try to expand on that.

As to editing the article, I'd just be sure to stay within the guidelines of verifiability and POV.

--Pcj 20:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

And yet more on Presley (though not edit warring)

Thanks for your comments, primarily addressed to NicholasTurnbull but I suppose also to some extent addressed to me. I agree with much of what you say. I have a couple of observations, though. First, you say: the Presley page differs extensively from other biographies on rock musicians given the number of quotes and secondary sources attributable to the article. This suggests that the article has basically been hijacked. I think you may be onto something here, if you mean that the number of sources suggests that the net has been thrown very wide to catch any little minnows of tawdriness. After all, questions about its quality and reliability aside, the two-volume bio by Guralnick is so large that one would expect it to be sufficient as a source for an encyclopedia entry. Secondly, I'm not sure what you're saying about Guralnik's work. It seems to be favorably regarded, but you seem dubious or even dismissive. Why is this? Are there documented flaws? (I really don't know.) -- Hoary 07:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Markup screw-up

In this recent edit, your deletion of a single "</ref>" caused a pile of footnotes to be concatenated. Please be careful about this kind of thing.

I also noticed that none of your recent series of edits was accompanied by an edit summary. Indeed, a look at your list of contributions suggests that you rarely provide edit summaries. Please provide them. Thanks. -- Hoary 06:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Elvis Presley article

I saw your involvement in the Elvis Presley article and that you were planning to rewrite the "Allegations of racism" section. I left a comment on the issue on the Talk Page that you might want to look at. I suggest reviewing Professor Michael T. Bertrand's work Race, Rock, and Elvis, at least from the University of Illinois Press website[2]. I also strongly suggest an article that provides much information on racism and Presley's musical origins from an unimpeachable source. I have copied parts of it below but I suggest you read and download the entire PDF file.

United States Department of the Interior re Graceland National Historic Landmark Nomination report prepared by Jody Cook, Architectural Historian and edited by Patty Henry of the National Park Service: [3] (Click on PDF file original at top of page for easier reading)

• According to Richard Penniman of Macon, Georgia—"Little Richard"—the first African American musical artist to break through on the pop charts: "He was an integrator. Elvis was a blessing. They wouldn’t let black music through. He opened the door for black music."

• When Elvis died in 1977, Rolling Stone magazine devoted an entire issue to Elvis Presley (RS 248). Dave Marsh's contribution made clear just what Elvis meant to America:
  • But if any individual of our time can be said to have changed the world, Elvis Presley is the one. In his wake, more than music is different. Nothing and no one looks or sounds the same. His music was the most liberating event of our era because it taught us new possibilities of feeling and perception, new modes of action and appearance, and because it reminded us not only of his greatness but also of our own potential. If those things were not already so well integrated into our lives that they have become commonplace, it would be simpler to explain how astonishing a feat Elvis Presley’s advent really was.

• Elvis Presley was influenced by all kinds of American music: gospel, blues, rhythm and blues, country, and pop, at a minimum. He clearly embraced African American music and culture and did so at a pivotal point of cultural change in American history. Similarities between Presley and rhythm and blues singers of the early 1950s have often been noted, but Presley’s true roots in black culture go much deeper. Gospel music was his primary musical influence. In the early years of the twentieth century, the evangelical Pentecostal movement with its "vibrant worship style" became extremely popular with working-class Christians, black and white. The Presley family belonged to the Assembly of God, a Pentecostal Holiness church.
  • The Holiness-Pentecostal connection to southern gospel is particularly important because it is precisely that wing of the white Protestant world that has generally been overlooked and misunderstood by music historians. Convinced that white Protestants displayed little emotion in their services, writers have stereotyped black gospel as expressive while stereotyping white gospel as staid. The fact is that both white and black Christians affiliated with the Holiness-Pentecostal wing of Protestantism found much to shout about in their worship services and those emotions logically spilled over into their singing. The roots of gospel music are found in the rural churches that routinely failed to conform to the more sophisticated style of their urban counterparts.”

• • In the 1890s . . . white and black Pentecostal congregations sprang up all over America, especially wherever the people were poor and depressed. Because the Holiness people jumped, shouted, danced, and fell out for Jesus, because, in a word, they acted "crazy, " they became a national laughingstock, the Holy Rollers of fable and cliché . . . At least twenty million Americans have had long and deep exposure to Holiness. There are easily as many white Sanctified as black, and their behavior may be even more frenzied.

• (NOTE: The opening chapter, "Tupelo Above The Highway," in Peter Guralnick's book Last Train To Memphis. [4] deals with his Pentecostal church and its music.)

• The Presleys' relocation to Memphis in 1948 expanded Elvis's musical horizons. He spent hours in local record shops listening to new releases and older records, primarily blues and rhythm and blues. After he was old enough to drive, Presley began to attend Sunday services at the East Trigg Baptist Church, a black congregation in south Memphis. Its minister, the Reverend W. Herbert Brewster, was one of the country's greatest black gospel songwriters. "East Trigg was not just another black gospel church. Its leading soloist, Queen C. Anderson, is by legend the greatest gospel singer the South has produced. And its preacher, Reverend W. Herbert Brewster, is a magnificent songwriter, at the very least a Milton to Thomas A. Dorsey’s Shakespeare."

• Presley has been accused of "stealing" black rhythm and blues, but such accusations indicate little knowledge of his many musical influences. "However much Elvis may have 'borrowed' from black blues performers (e.g., 'Big Boy' Crudup, 'Big Mama' Thornton), he borrowed no less from white country stars (e.g., Ernest Tubb, Bill Monroe) and white pop singers (e.g., Mario Lanza, Dean Martin)," and most of his borrowings came from the church; its gospel music was his primary musical influence and foundation, especially the close harmony of the gospel quartet. Accusations of stealing also reflect a basic misunderstanding of the art of making music, because collaboration and sharing are essential components, borrowing and appropriation are expected, and theft is simply not an option. According to Miles Davis, ground-breaking jazz musician, composer, and band leader, the creation of music happens like this: “He influenced me and I influenced him [Jimi Hendrix], and that’s the way great music is always made. Everybody’s showing somebody else something and then moving on from there. "
  • There was nothing shameful about appropriating the work of black people, anyway. If Elvis had simply stolen rhythm & blues from Negro culture, as pop music ignoramuses have for years maintained, there would have been no reason for Southern outrage over his new music . . . But Elvis did something more daring and dangerous: . . . The crime of Elvis’ rock & roll was that he proved that black and white tendencies could coexist and that the product of their coexistence was not just palatable but thrilling.

--207.67.145.214 22:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Edit summaries (again)

The screenful of the fifty most recent changes to Elvis Presley shows several edits by you. Not a single one of these edits has an edit summary. Please provide an edit summary every time. Examples:

• this might be "rephrasing one link"
• This might be "removing trivia about a play about Presley"
• This might be "removing excess detail about Residents CD"

Note that explanations on the talk page may be excellent supplements to or expansions of edit summaries, but do not render edit summaries unnecessary. Thank you. -- Hoary 04:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Advocate

If you still need an advocate for your Elvis Presley article dispute, please contact me on xblinterface@hotmail.com.

Otherwise, good luck with your editing.

--GuyIncognito 05:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

It is suspected that this user might be a sock puppet or impersonator of Ted Wilkes, DW, Black Widow and numerous others.. Please refer to contributions for evidence. See block log.

There is, and never has been, a connection between me and Ted Wilkes or any of his various aliases. I edit from two specific places: My work and my home. Both of those IP addresses should be different than anything ever posted by Ted Wilkes or any of his various sockpuppets. The fact that I like Marvel Comics is scant reason to connect me to a User called Nightcrawler. Moreover, the fact that I have reverted changes to the Presley pages is based on my knowledge of Presley and some of the questionable edits posted by User Onefortyone. It's even more of a punch to the stomach when a fellow Irish Wikipedian (I was born and raised in Dublin and go home every two months or so) is the one who banned me! Please let me know what I can do to confirm that there is no connection between myself and Ted Wilkes et al. Other that the fact that I have edited the Presley page and I happen to like Thor (I also like Roy Keane and Michael Collins for what it is worth) there is NO connection. Lochdale 19:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I've also forwarded a message to the unblock list containing some additional information which I hope will distinguish me from Wilkes et al.Lochdale 20:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)