User talk:Venki123

Welcome!

Hello, Venki123, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!  Will (Talk - contribs) 23:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Welcome

I noticed you placed a warning on a user's page here [1]. I removed it, as warnings should be placed on talk pages. I also noticed that you placed a block notice on the user's talk page here: [2]. There are specific rules about when a user may be blocked and only editors with admin priviledges can block users. Therefore, placing this notice has no effect, so I removed it. I will review this user's contributions and see if a block is warranted. In the future, please report suspected vandals to WP:AIV, but also please read WP:VANDAL first, as a guide to dealing with vandalism. Cheers. Dina 23:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

You will also find a list of templates that you can use at Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace. Be sure to subst them. Will (Talk - contribs) 23:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

3RR at Mudaliar

Calling it vandalism does not make it so, it is a content dispute. You and User:Mudaliar are both guilty of violating WP:3RR. Revert the page again and you will both be blocked, or I will rollback both of your edits to a prior version and protect the page from editing. Take your dispute to the talkpage and hammer it out, it is the only way to resolve such conflicts. Consider yourself warned for 3RR. Cheers. Dina 23:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Mudaliar article Message to Dina reg Vandalism/Reverts

Hi Dina, This is Venki123. I and the user Mudaliar have a content dispute regarding the article Mudaliar. The main issue here is which group of people have used the title Mudaliar as their surname. The user Mudaliar has no proof for claiming that it was the group Thondai Mandala Vellalar who used it. I have asked for proof many times. But he refuses to give it. I am unwilling to accept his claim without proof. I also have given proof of other groups who are claiming the same as he is. I have given proof from inscriptions dated from 1000 AD that the group called Kaikolar have used the title. I am not even claiming that Kaikolar were the first to use, since there is no positive proof. The user Mudaliar keeps deleting all the positive information about Kaikolar and seems intent on denigrating the Kaikolar group. Further he is not willing to allow other groups who also use the surname Mudaliar to add their name to the list of groups. He refers to certain sources and when I give the same source for more information, he deletes them. Please advise.

thnx Venki123 Venki123 02:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion is to create a Request for comment. Do not keep reverting the page. I have warned you both. You reverted (from your IP) and I blocked you for 24 hours. I am not a party to this dispute and would have blocked User:Mudaliar if he had reverted. I mean this in the nicest possible way: I don't care. I have no opinion about the content of this dispute. You can also go to mediation for some help. But do not simply continue reverting each other's edits. It's just against the rules. Content disputes happen, but the encyclopedia should not suffer. You cannot edit for the next 24 hours. When your block is over, please take care not to violate Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Dina 02:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

Making the edit not logged in still counts. Please take this time to consider how to approach your edit conflict more constructively. Cheers. Dina 02:23, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Mudaliar article Message to Dina reg Vandalism/Reverts

Hi Dina, I am willing to follow the rules regarding RFC and then mediation. In the meanwhile can you please revert the Mudaliar article to its previous state before the user Mudaliar started denigrating all other groups. While the user Mudaliar has given proofs, he is not willing to accept statements from the same source he has given. Some of his legitimate sources are websites created by people belonging to his group and hence are not independent. thnx Venki123 16:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Mudaliar article reverts by User Mudaliar

Regarding the username Mudaliar, it is the same as the article in dispute. Hence I suggest that he change his username to a different username so that it is easy to refer to him in the RFC and mediation process. Venki123 17:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Crossposted to both your talk pages

I'm going to be really frank here. I originally thought that the reason I didn't understand this dispute is because I am a self-centered American women. But then I realized I wasn't giving myself enough credit. I am capable of understanding a well-written english article on nearly any subject. The reason I don't understand this dispute is because both versions of the Mudaliar article are terrible. Sorry to be so harsh, but I believe that that's true. I cannot fix this article. You guys can. Before you continue to bicker over this tiny, tiny dispute that half the world could give a fig about, you need to make at least that first paragraph make some damn sense! Here's my more constructive criticism:

Venki's preferred version

Mudaliar also Mudaliyar, Mudali, Moodley is a title and is the surname of many distinct groups. (Huh? title meaning what? a royal title, a professional title? Surname of many distinct groups of what? Scottish people? Any famous people with this name?) It does not refer to one caste or race. (Again, huh? I know this is part of the dispute, but why is this the second sentence? What's a caste? And who says its the name of a race? I've never heard of any race called Mudaliar?). The term Mudaliyār literally means a person of first rank in a feudal society. (What language? What society? England had a feudal society? Is this the word for first rank worldwide?) [1] However in recent times (How recent?) due to social upliftment the name (Really, what social upliftment? Who got "socially uplifted") is used by people belonging to various castes originally from Tamil Nadu (Where?)and in the Tamil diaspora (There's a Tamil diaspora? Is Tamil a language or an ethnic group? Where did the diaspora originate? Antartica?)for the purpose of social upliftment. (You already said that, but it's still unclear) Some castes are forward-caste (What on earth does that mean?) while most are backward-caste ( That sounds like an insult to me, is it a commonly used term?). Mudaliars are usually more financially well off than other communities. (This absolutely needs a reference. Also, where? I've never met a Mudaliar. Are they richer than Bill Gates?) Mudaliars also tend not to marry outside their community (Again, what community? I live in Boston, are there Mudaliars here?). Most Mudaliars are pure Tamilians with Tamil as their native language (Okay, I guess. Is there a ref for this?). Due to the strong interaction of Mudaliars with Telugus (Where do these people interact? When? What do you mean interact -- do business? marry each other?) some people confuse them with Telugus. (I'm so confused already, there's no danger of that) Mudaliars acquiring Brahmin dialect (I've heard the word Brahmin, but the fact that it's a dialect is new, oh, and a dialect of what? Tamil?) and Telugu dialect is mainly due to their strong interaction with various groups in the past. (so vague as to be meaningless) There are mudaliars in Sri Lanka too and they speak Sinhalese. (the surname or the caste? Also, why?)

Mudaliar's preferred version

Mudaliar also Mudaliyār, Mudali and Moodley in Tamil language literally means a person of first rank in a feudal society[1] (Again, where? Scotland?). It is originally the title and the surname of Tondaimandala Vellalars only, (Where? India? What part of india? Or is that a kind of people? Also when -- 1987? 400 BCE?) [1] [2] [3][4]. However in recent times due to the process of sanskritization (Huh?)the name is used by people belonging to various castes originally from Tamil Nadu (Where?!?!) and in the Tamil diaspora (What Tamil diaspora? Where did they originate, where did they end up?) for the purpose of social upliftment (Oh really? How?. Some castes are forward-caste (totally confusing term) while most are backward-caste (confusing and sounds borderline insulting. Meaningless phrase to this english speaker). Mudaliars are usually more financially well off than other communities. (Where? In Brazil? How well off? Needs a ref) Mudaliars also tend not to marry outside their community (Again, "tend" is uncyclopedic. Why? Where? What community?). Most Mudaliars are pure Tamilians with Tamil as their native language. (Okay, what's a Tamilian)

I hope it's clear that I am somewhat mocking an ignorant American here, and that neither of you will be insulted. I am just trying to explain that this dispute is sidelining you both from creating an article that could answer these questions. Answer the questions!!!! :)

I will unlock the article sometime this weekend. Not sure when. If you revert war and violate 3RR I'll block both of you for 48 hours and lock the article again, for at least a week. We can keep doing this, or you can work together to answer the stupid American girl's questions. Lastly, more writing advice: Make me care about this topic as a reader. Because I'll be honest, right now I really don't. And please stop fighting on my talk page. Cheers. Dina 16:42, 5 January 2007 (UTC)