Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mixed martial arts

Inconsistency among UFC fight event numbering

Since November 7, UFC event fight numbering has been inconsistent and is effecting the numbering of future events. A comparable table is shown below.

List of UFC events
Date	Wikipedia article Needs moved (From → To)			Sherdog	mmajunkie
November 7, 2020	UFC on ESPN: Santos vs. Teixeira	→	— (no change necessary) —	UFC on ESPN 17: Santos vs. Teixeira	UFC on ESPN 17: Santos vs. Teixeira
November 14, 2020	UFC Fight Night: Felder vs. dos Anjos	→	— (no change necessary) —	UFC Fight Night 182: Felder vs. dos Anjos	UFC Fight Night 182: Felder vs. dos Anjos
November 21, 2020	UFC 255	→	— (no change necessary) —	UFC 255: Figueiredo vs. Perez	UFC 255: Figueiredo vs. Perez
November 28, 2020	UFC on ESPN: Smith vs. Clark	→	— (no change necessary) —	UFC on ESPN 18: Smith vs. Clark	UFC on ESPN 18: Smith vs. Clark
December 5, 2020	UFC on ESPN: Hermansson vs. Vettori	→	— (no change necessary) —	UFC on ESPN 19: Hermansson vs. Vettori	UFC on ESPN 19: Hermansson vs. Vettori
December 12, 2020	UFC 256	→	— (no change necessary) —	UFC 256: Figueiredo vs. Moreno	UFC 256: Figueiredo vs. Moreno
December 19, 2020	UFC Fight Night: Thompson vs. Neal	→	— (no change necessary) —	UFC Fight Night 183: Thompson vs. Neal	UFC Fight Night 183: Thompson vs. Neal
December 26, 2020	— (none) —	→	— (none) —	— (none) —	— (none) —

The event numbering since November 7 needs to be updated to reflect these changes. Please change accordingly. Thanks. --Discographer (talk) 11:33, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@Discographer: See here: Talk:UFC_on_ESPN:_Hermansson_vs._Holland#ESPN2_events. Gsfelipe94 (talk) 23:58, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Y @Gsfelipe94: Thanks for the notice. --Discographer (talk) 00:39, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

@Gsfelipe94: Thank you for taking care of this. Good work! --Discographer (talk) 19:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

UFC on ABC

@Gsfelipe94 and Cassiopeia: – Heads up, if you have not already seen this yet -- according to mmajunkie (click here for that link), UFC Fight Night: Holloway vs. Kattar is being planned to be televised on ABC rather than ESPN+
... (UFC on ESPN+ 42 → UFC on ABC 1). --Discographer (talk) 01:09, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

I saw those news and honestly the best thing right now is to wait before the UFC confirms it. That's big news and it would be wise to wait for the confirmation. That being said, I believe the best way to name it would be "on ABC" as well as that would not fill into the same shoes of a regular Fight Night. Gsfelipe94 (talk) 01:53, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, good. Thanks! --Discographer (talk) 02:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Discographer, Good day. If it is confirmed, then "UFC on ABC XXX" should be named for the event page/article page and later change to "UFC on ABC: YYY vs. ZZZ" when the headliners are confirmed. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Stay safe and best. Cassiopeia^(talk) 21:09, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Cassiopeia, yes, like the UFC's last previously network televised UFC on Fox event UFC on Fox: Lee vs. Iaquinta 2 back in December 2018. So, from FOX to ABC, like this:

• UFC on Fox: Lee vs. Iaquinta 2 (also known as UFC on Fox 31)
• UFC on ABC: Holloway vs. Kattar (also known as UFC on ABC 1)
  

We three are in agreement then. Thanks again, to both of you, and have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year too! --Discographer (talk) 22:42, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

The same for you, Discographer! Gsfelipe94 (talk) 00:00, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

New Notability Proposal

A new proposal for MMA fighter notability has been posted at WT:MMANOT#Change in Notability Criteria Proposal. The proposal is the same as the existing criteria except that it also says that any world top 10 fighter (ranked by sherdog or fightmatrix) is also considered notable. This puts more emphasis on the individuals and less on the organizations. Papaursa (talk) 23:52, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

New notability criteria for MMA fighters

The proposal mentioned above has been agreed to by consensus and is now posted at WT:NSPORT#New notability criteria for MMA fighters. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Papaursa (talk) 03:04, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

A new proposal to remove height and reach from MMA fighters

@Ppt1973, Psycho-Krillin, Gsfelipe94, Udar55, A.lanzetta, BEDofRAZORS666, Brusinggiant, Sdpdude9, Ticelon, Dwanyewest, Cassiopeia, Eerie Holiday, UFC Cub Beavis, Antumdeluge, Mehrdaad.wiki, Mr.adamgreen, GameRCrom, Bkissin, Powderkegg, Kosbit4, Ikamborden, KINGFEDORQc, GameRCrom, MadjarMMA, Ptkday, Picograms, HeinzMaster, Leighton94, NEDOCHAN, Imhungry4444, InedibleHulk, Psycho-Krillin, A.lanzetta, BEDofRAZORS666, Brusinggiant, Ticelon, Dwanyewest, and PRehse:

A new proposal for all MMA fighters to no longer include height and reach in any MMA fighter infobox due to a "accuracy" issue. Weight can remain due to its weight class..etc.Kent Bargo (talk) 02:53, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

• Disagree. Though there are inaccuracies with height and reach, it's still pertinent information. Powderkegg (talk) 03:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - Makes no sense whatsoever. Please make helpful contributions. How can we remove those informations related to an athlete? Gsfelipe94 (talk) 04:10, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

I am not sure why you said it does not make sense and "please say make helpful contributions" on this proposal, but there obviously never ending accuracy issue with the height and reach. No suggested solution was presented who opposed. Kent Bargo (talk) 05:31, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

@Kent Bargo: See 'Burden of proof' (onus probandi). Thank you. Kosbit4 (talk) 23:55, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

*Comment - This is Wikipedia and one of the Wikipedia core policies is content need to be verified by independent, reliable sources and not about the true - see Wikipedia:But it's true!, thus, if (example) XXX have three children in real life, but the source we could find is 2 children, then we put 2 instead of 3, same as how Alexander the Great die is based on which sources you read, from poising, to malaria and typhoid fever to infectious (meningitis) to acute pancreatitis. Secondly, the height, reach and weight is measured by different ppl in different situations/settings/events/, no one can tell who measured them correctly and some info might be converted from metric to imperial and vice versa and also, how do we know the info is filled in by the fighters themselves, by someone who did it on behalf of the fighters, or by the person who keys in the info from the source/website? So the key and policy here is verifiability and not the true. (site note: the weight on the infobox rightfully is the last fight weightclass the fighter fought and the division is all the weight divisions the fighters have fought). Cassiopeia^(talk) 06:21, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

@Cassiopeia: Oppose - Height is the measurement, and measurement is the numerical quantification. It is empirically verifiable. Kosbit4 (talk) 23:55, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Kosbit4 I think you have misunderstand me and it is nothing for you to oppose as this is the Wikipedia core policy and here we are discussing whether to remove height and reach of fighters and not Wikipedia policy. If the XXX is 5'10" in real life, and the source indicate XXX he is 5'9", then in Wikipedia, we would put 5'9", this mean the info (5'9") is verified by the source in regardless the "info (5'9")" was the error made by the person who measures XXX or a typo. It is the same thing, if XXX weighted 155 Ib during weight in, but XXX is actually 155.2 ib, and if the source indicated XXX is 155 ib, then XXX is 155 Ib in Wikipedia.

• Oppose: Same with Powderkegg - the data is mostly consistent (excluding the pioneers of the sport) and needed information. From time to time there are disputes regarding some individuals but it doesn't make the need for the height and reach obsolete. Ticelon (talk) 06:27, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Agree with the above users. It there are disagreements regarding height, reliable sources can be found and cited. GameRCrom (talk) 09:50, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose: Data is usually consistent. If it's not, there's always reliable sources.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ptkday (talk • contribs) 01:05, February 12, 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - Good for gamblers to know which fighter has the advantages in a matchup. Certainly not immune to the odd bad info, but no field is. Neither is any standard section of the body. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose: I think we all agree height and reach are important data about a fighter, right? And both numbers are usually given by the promotion the fighter is signed to hence we have a reliable source. Furthermore, height and reach can change slightly (depending on if the measurement is taken in the morning or in the evening, for instance). From my experience, maybe these numbers are corrected once or (seldomly) twice when a fighter comes to a new promotion but they tend to stabilize after that. It's not like height and/or reach will be changing every time there's a fight. Psycho-Krillin (talk) 01:31, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Recent UFC Fighters been suddenly moved

@Ppt1973, Psycho-Krillin, Gsfelipe94, A.lanzetta, BEDofRAZORS666, Sdpdude9, Ticelon, Dwanyewest, Cassiopeia, Eerie Holiday, UFC Cub Beavis, Antumdeluge, Mehrdaad.wiki, Mr.adamgreen, GameRCrom, Bkissin, Powderkegg, Kosbit4, Ikamborden, KINGFEDORQc, GameRCrom, MadjarMMA, Ptkday, Leighton94, NEDOCHAN, HeinzMaster, Imhungry4444, InedibleHulk, Psycho-Krillin, A.lanzetta, BEDofRAZORS666, Brusinggiant, Ticelon, and Dwanyewest:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gilbert_Burns#Requested_move_11_January_2021
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alexander_Volkov_(fighter)#Requested_move_7_February_2021
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kevin_Holland#Requested_move_11_January_2021

Do you MMA editors to keep page like that or reverted back?