Talk:War crimes in Afghanistan: Difference between revisions
Moved discussion on accuracy of reporting on ADF war crimes here. |
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== Controversy around reporting of alleged Australian war crimes in Afghanistan in 2012 == |
== Controversy around reporting of alleged Australian war crimes in Afghanistan in 2012 == |
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I have moved the following debate from the [[Mark Willacy]] biography page here, as it was less about Mark Willacy and more about the nature of the evidence of alleged ADF war crimes in Afghanistan. I feel this page is more appropriate for this debate. I disagree with much of what is written below, as most sources primarily originate from a person allegedly involved in the killings in question.[[User:Sparticusmaximus|Sparticusmaximus]] ([[User talk:Sparticusmaximus|talk]]) 07:00, 14 December 2021 (UTC) |
I have moved the following debate from the [[Mark Willacy]] biography page here, as it was less about Mark Willacy and more about the nature of the evidence of alleged ADF war crimes in Afghanistan. I feel this page is more appropriate for this debate. I disagree with much of what is written below, as most sources primarily originate from a person allegedly involved in the killings in question, and entirely inaccurate claims that there are doubts about the investigation occurring, as well as spurious evidence that seeks to imply the ABC investigated at the wrong dates.[[User:Sparticusmaximus|Sparticusmaximus]] ([[User talk:Sparticusmaximus|talk]]) 07:00, 14 December 2021 (UTC) |
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: Some war crime allegations reported by Willacy and ABC Investigations involving Australian special forces in Afghanistan in 2012<ref>{{cite web |title=Reports, allegations and inquiries into serious misconduct by Australian troops in Afghanistan 2005–2013 |url=https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp2021/Chronologies/AllegationsAfghanistan |website=www.aph.gov.au |access-date=23 November 2021 |language=en-AU}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |author1=Mark Willacy |author2=Alexandra Blucher |author3=Dan Oakes |title=Australian soldiers killed prisoner because he could not fit on aircraft, American marine says |url=https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-21/soldiers-killed-man-who-could-not-fit-on-aircraft-says-us-marine/12782756 |access-date=14 November 2021 |work=ABC News |publisher=ABC News |date=20 October 2020 |language=en-AU}}</ref> have been both disputed, and criticised, by the then commander of the allegedly responsible soldiers from the [[2nd Commando Regiment (Australia)|2nd Commando Regiment]]’s 'November Platoon', [[Heston Russell]],<ref>{{cite web |title=Australian Army Commando Hits Back At Allegations Of Misconduct In Afghanistan |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dewC14D9vmQ |website=YouTube |publisher=The Project |access-date=14 November 2021 |language=en}}</ref> who claims Willacy's reporting is "unsubstantiated" and "an appalling and preposterous lie".<ref name="vcf">{{cite web |title=Letter to the ABC |url=https://vsf.org.au/abc |website=Veteran Support Force |access-date=24 November 2021 |date=25 October 2021}}</ref> |
: Some war crime allegations reported by Willacy and ABC Investigations involving Australian special forces in Afghanistan in 2012<ref>{{cite web |title=Reports, allegations and inquiries into serious misconduct by Australian troops in Afghanistan 2005–2013 |url=https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp2021/Chronologies/AllegationsAfghanistan |website=www.aph.gov.au |access-date=23 November 2021 |language=en-AU}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |author1=Mark Willacy |author2=Alexandra Blucher |author3=Dan Oakes |title=Australian soldiers killed prisoner because he could not fit on aircraft, American marine says |url=https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-21/soldiers-killed-man-who-could-not-fit-on-aircraft-says-us-marine/12782756 |access-date=14 November 2021 |work=ABC News |publisher=ABC News |date=20 October 2020 |language=en-AU}}</ref> have been both disputed, and criticised, by the then commander of the allegedly responsible soldiers from the [[2nd Commando Regiment (Australia)|2nd Commando Regiment]]’s 'November Platoon', [[Heston Russell]],<ref>{{cite web |title=Australian Army Commando Hits Back At Allegations Of Misconduct In Afghanistan |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dewC14D9vmQ |website=YouTube |publisher=The Project |access-date=14 November 2021 |language=en}}</ref> who claims Willacy's reporting is "unsubstantiated" and "an appalling and preposterous lie".<ref name="vcf">{{cite web |title=Letter to the ABC |url=https://vsf.org.au/abc |website=Veteran Support Force |access-date=24 November 2021 |date=25 October 2021}}</ref> |
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Question
"Taliban forces claimed responsibility for the 6 August assassination of Dawa Khan Menapal, head of the governmental media and information centre, in Kabul."
This is probably a stupid question, but why is this considered a war crime? I'm not contesting it I'm just curious. - Kevo327 (talk) 19:03, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- It's the execution of a civilian during a war. There's no suggestion of this being unavoidable "collateral damage" in a military operation. Boud (talk) 18:08, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
- That makes sense, thank you for explaining. - Kevo327 (talk) 07:52, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
- If the cited sources do not explicitly refer to it as a war crime, then it should be removed as original research/WP:SYNTH. A charge as serious as calling an assassination a "war crime" must not depend upon the interpretation of Wikipedia's volunteer editors.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 13:37, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
- Per the cited source:
"'Attack on civilian employees of the government, cultural activists and media workers is a violation of the armed conflict law and a clear act of war crimes,' said Zabihullah Farhang, spokesman to Afghan Human Rights Commission."
TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 13:43, 15 August 2021 (UTC)- Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission - in case readers of this discussion didn't notice. Boud (talk) 13:46, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
Taliban taking over.
The Taliban has once again taken over many parts of the country. It's only appropriate to talk about this and to mention that the US has sent troops back there. 150.101.89.147 (talk) 07:18, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
- IP, the U.S. is sending troops on a limited mission to evacuate the U.S. embassy in Kabul (not to resume the war against the Taliban as your draft edit inaccurately suggests). That has nothing to do with "war crimes by the Taliban," which is the topic of this Wikipedia article. Wikipedia articles are not an appropriate forum to copy/paste breaking news reports in a sensationalistic way (especially when said reports have almost no relevance to the Wikipedia articles in question). Please review WP:RECENTISM, etc., and note that edit warring may result in sanctions and/or page protection.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 13:34, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
- TheTimesAreAChanging is correct on this - this topic is war crimes by the Taliban, not a general description of the ongoing 2021 Taliban offensive. Boud (talk) 13:43, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
Controversy around reporting of alleged Australian war crimes in Afghanistan in 2012
I have moved the following debate from the Mark Willacy biography page here, as it was less about Mark Willacy and more about the nature of the evidence of alleged ADF war crimes in Afghanistan. I feel this page is more appropriate for this debate. I disagree with much of what is written below, as most sources primarily originate from a person allegedly involved in the killings in question, and entirely inaccurate claims that there are doubts about the investigation occurring, as well as spurious evidence that seeks to imply the ABC investigated at the wrong dates.Sparticusmaximus (talk) 07:00, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- Some war crime allegations reported by Willacy and ABC Investigations involving Australian special forces in Afghanistan in 2012[1][2] have been both disputed, and criticised, by the then commander of the allegedly responsible soldiers from the 2nd Commando Regiment’s 'November Platoon', Heston Russell,[3] who claims Willacy's reporting is "unsubstantiated" and "an appalling and preposterous lie".[4]
- The Australian Defence Minister, Peter Dutton also criticised the reporting by Willacy and the ABC on this issue, stating "On many occasions our soldiers are treated, particularly by the ABC, with complete disdain", and "If the ABC has evidence, cough it up".[5]
- In November 2021, the ABC reported that the Department of Defence had denied access to documents and audio recordings under a Willacy's Freedom of Information (FOI) request which related to November Platoon and the US Drug Enforcement Administration during 2012, when war crimes are alleged to have occurred. The Department of Defence stated the release of information could compromise “a current investigation of a possible breach of the law”. The ABC reported that the conduct of November Platoon was therefore subject to an active criminal investigation.[6] Disputing the ABC's report, Russell claimed Defence's Freedom of Information request denial did not confirm November Platoon was under investigation because it did not name any specific platoon or individual.[7][8]
- After Russell made a complaint to the ABC’s Audience and Consumer Affairs (A&CA) unit, the ABC released a statement affirming Willacy's reporting on the story and its key source.[9][10]
- On 23 November 2021, the Veteran Support Force (VSF) organisation with Heston Russell released a video statement noting the ABC did not initially accept a review due to the complaint being lodged more than 6-weeks after the original article was published. The ABC stated on 19 November the complaint regarding the October 2020 story by Mark Willacy is now being investigated.[9] Russell also stated that Willacy and the ABC's reporting the alleged Afghanistan war crime by November Platoon was demonstrably false as it was alleged to the have occurred before November Platoon had even deployed to Afghanistan and before November Platoon has commenced any missions working with United States Marines, whom Willacy's investigation used as a source witness.[4][11][12] Russell has also criticised that the accusations reported by Mark Willacy and the ABC have contributed to Australian Defence Force Veteran suicide.[13]
- Australian Radio broadcaster 2GB reported on 24 November 2021 that the ABC claim that Defence confirmed November Platoon was under investigation for this allegation was false, and that a formal petition to the Australian Parliament has been lodged to request an inquiry into the report by Mark Willacy and the ABC.[14][15]
- ^ "Reports, allegations and inquiries into serious misconduct by Australian troops in Afghanistan 2005–2013". www.aph.gov.au. Retrieved 23 November 2021.
- ^ Mark Willacy; Alexandra Blucher; Dan Oakes (20 October 2020). "Australian soldiers killed prisoner because he could not fit on aircraft, American marine says". ABC News. ABC News. Retrieved 14 November 2021.
- ^ "Australian Army Commando Hits Back At Allegations Of Misconduct In Afghanistan". YouTube. The Project. Retrieved 14 November 2021.
- ^ a b "Letter to the ABC". Veteran Support Force. 25 October 2021. Retrieved 24 November 2021.
- ^ Fordham, Ben (1 November 2021). "'Cough it up': Defence Minister wants ABC to prove damaging claims". 2GB. Retrieved 20 November 2021.
- ^ Josh Robertson (19 November 2021). "Defence confirms criminal investigation into conduct of Australian commando platoon in Afghanistan". ABC News. ABC News. Retrieved 19 November 2021.
- ^ "Defence FOI 212 2122". www.documentcloud.org. Retrieved 21 November 2021.
- ^ Russell, Heston. Facebook https://www.facebook.com/HestonRussellOfficial/posts/2433567630140345. Retrieved 20 November 2021.
{{cite web}}
: Missing or empty|title=
(help) - ^ a b "ABC statement on Mark Willacy's reporting on war crimes allegations". ABC. ABC. 19 November 2021. Retrieved 20 November 2021.
- ^ Giannini, Dominic (19 November 2021). "Calls for faster action on war crime probe". Northern Beaches Review. Northern Beaches Review. Australian Associated Press. Retrieved 20 November 2021.
- ^ Fordham, Ben (22 November 2021). "Fresh doubts over the ABC's unproven war crime allegations". 2GB. 2GB 873AM Radio. 2GB. Retrieved 23 November 2021.
- ^ "New timeline throws doubt over ABC war crimes claim". 22 November 2021. Retrieved 23 November 2021.
- ^ Miranda, Charles. "'It was a mess': ABC report makes war veterans 'break down'". TheAdvertiser. AdelaideNow. Retrieved 23 November 2021.
- ^ Fordham, Ben (24 November 2021). "Petition launched to hold the ABC to account over unproven war crimes". 2GB. 2GB. Retrieved 25 November 2021.
- ^ "e-petitions EN3637 - Independent Review of the ABC's War Crime accusation story 21/10/2020". www.aph.gov.au. Retrieved 25 November 2021.
- Start-Class Afghanistan articles
- Low-importance Afghanistan articles
- WikiProject Afghanistan articles
- Start-Class Human rights articles
- Low-importance Human rights articles
- WikiProject Human rights articles
- Start-Class military history articles
- Start-Class Asian military history articles
- Asian military history task force articles
- Start-Class Post-Cold War articles
- Post-Cold War task force articles