Talk:Jiraiya (Naruto)/Archive 1

How strong is Jiraiya

Could he really kill Tsunade by himself? Dragonball1986

i think so. He is very strong.--Kenshin -Himura 21:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, don't forget that Tsunade almost killed him once already.BLaCk 00:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

o please, are you telling me that you think Jiraiya was fighting back? If Jiraiya fought back full force he might have killed her.--Kenshin -Himura 11:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

well we don't know if he did or not. no doubt he is very strong and more than likely hes grown more during the time that they were apart however medical ninjas are no joke either and Tsunade the "medical specialist" for sure has a good amount of tricks up her sleeves.BLaCk 17:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh! don't get me wrong she is strong but my point is is she strong enough? and for all we know Jiraiya might have "A good amount of tricks up his sleeves" too. We will never know because they will never fight full force against each other so the answer to Dragon ball's Question is we don't know.--Kenshin -Himura 21:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm not saying this could be true with them, but usually both of the guys are stronger than the girl in their team.

If he and Tsunade battled Orochimaru to the death, wouldn't Oro still defeat them easily? (since he's in a young person's body?) Dragonball1986 11:30, 1st September 2006 (UTC)

He fought pretty evenly with Orochimaru, even though he was poisoned. - Malomeat 14:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

no. it is stated:oro fears itachi and itachi said:if we atack Jiraiya we will likely both die so jiraiya is a hell of alot stronger than oro.--Kenshin -Himura 00:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. Orochimaru-sama is in a young person's body making him more youthful and more energetic than the old Jiraiya. I do belive, however, that Orochimaru-sama could have defeated (and possibly killed) the valliant Jiraiya if he had both his arms restored by the Godaime Hokage at the time he battled him in that field. Kabuto Yakushi

No.NO.NO.As i said:it is stated:oro fears itachi and itachi said:if we atack Jiraiya we will likely both die so jiraiya is a hell of alot stronger than oro. Just leave it at that.--Kenshin -Himura 18:14, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Not everyone has to agree with you. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 18:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

i didn't mean that but who do you think is stronger?

It may be that oro is just as strong but his style of combat is trumped by Itachi's Sharingan while Jiraiya is less depandant on close combat and could defeat itachi.

There seems to be a circle strength between these characters. One can overpower another but is weak against the other like rock, paper and scissors or like the bosses in megaman/megaman x --Beef noodles 21:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I dont think that Jiraya trumps Itachi by being less dependent on close combat, he trumps him by using mostly summoning jutsu's. Somthnig that the sharingan cant copy and I dont know if the sharingan can copy rasengan. Itachi can be effective from close or long range combat(more long rang I think).BLaCk 01:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

But, have you seen Itachi copying jutsus? It appears Itachi doesn't rely on copying jutsus anymore since his Mangekyou Sharingan (MS) based jutsus are more formidable than most jutsus performed by other characters. Also I believe that there might actually be a way for a shinobi without an MS to defend against a person with a MS. Apart from the what Maito Gai has developed, there may still be a special technique to counter the effects of the powerful kekkai genkai. --64.14.194.26 02:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

True that we havnt seen him copy jutsu's ate the exact moment of the battle but I think thats beacuse He's at a level where he can counter perfectly with other copied jutsu's without copying the exact jutsu the opponent throws at him. Also remember that befor Akatsuki made big movements they went around gathering information and techniques so who knows how many jutsu's he has in his arsenal to counter with. The one person with powerful jutsu's worth copying that we saw him face was Jiraiya but couldnt beacuse of the blood agreement needed for the powerful summonings of his. Im sure if he could he would have copied jiraiyas techniques. As for the MS, he only uses it when he wants to end the battle quickly or when he is forced to. Those Jutsu's are very powerful but cost alot too(great amount of chakra, lot of strain on the body and a deteriorating eyesight).With those stipulations he would like to use it the least bit possible.BLaCk 21:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I agree with part of your explanation. Itachi with the Sharingan alone should have copied many jutsu before and during his time with Akatsuki and that using MS based jutsu is very costly to its user thus would be best if only used in rather special situations. What I don't agree with is your explanation on how Jiraiya, Orochimaru and Itachi fare if they fought each other. It appears, according to you, that Jiraiya's advantage lies on his advanced summoning techniques alone. Don't forget that Orochimaru can also summon powerful entities. If Itachi has problems dealing with powerful summoning technique users, then why would Orochimaru fear him? My point is, we still don't really know much about what these 3 guys can do if they used 100% of their abilities in a fight. --Beef noodles 00:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Orochimaru can summon creatures, people, and gates. Jiraiya can whole creatures at a distance and summon parts of creatures which he can willfully control. He's far better at it. Jiraiya's considered strong because his summoning techniques are some of the deadliest known, and are next to inescapable. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 00:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

That's true. Jiraiya seems to have superior mastery of the technique and later in the series probably, it would be revealed he is the best at it. But then again, we still don't really know much about what these 3 guys can do if they used 100% of their abilities in a fight. What I'm saying is that there may be more to Jiraiya than what we know. When Jiraiya and Itachi first met, Jiraiya doesn't appear to be bothered much about Itachi's MS. Kakashi however, knew that Asuma and Kurenai would not stand a chance against Itachi because of his MS and told them to immediately close their eyes. At that point, he also said that he was the only one that can face him since he also has a Sharingan. --Beef noodles 01:35, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

jiraiya is a hell of a lot stronger leave it at that

nick

You are so biased. However, this triangle could be like... Neji, Sasuke, and Naruto. Neji was the "strongest" and Naruto beat Neji, but Naruto can't beat Sasuke. It can be rock-paper-scissors, like how the Sannin can't beat eachother. A circle of power, you could say, until we can get more information.

This entire discussion is inherently flawed. One cannot determine how these characters would fare against each other unless they actually fought free of all outside influences. The fight between Jiraiya and Orochimaru during the Search for Tsunade arc cannot be used as a basis since Jiraiya's ability to mold chakra was crippled (thus rendering him unable to use a great deal of his techniques) and Orochimaru lacked the use of his arms (preventing him from using ninjutsu or genjutsu). One cannot compare any Akatsuki member against the Sannin either, seeing as none of them have directly fought in a manner that would appear to be conclusive. The only definite evidence was when in Episode 83, Itachi referred to his and Kisame's inability to defeat a certain person, even with the aid of more people (which can be assumed to be other members of Akatsuki). It can be inferred that he was referring to Jiraiya, but this is not confirmed. Itachi's willingness to retreat after Jiraiya arrives could be taken as more evidence of this, but again, it could be due to other reasons. As such, conjecture is all we basically have. For instance, Itachi could be naturally at a disadvantage against Jiraiya due to his numerous summoning techniques (which are unable to be copied) and his ability to break genjutsu (it can be assumed that this is possible, as he taught Naruto how to do it. Given Jiraiya's talents, however, he's likely immensely better). Perhaps, he can, say, break Itachi's Tsukuyomi or produce a shield to guard against Amaterasu. However, we do not know whether Tsukuyomi can be broken, or is simply too strong an illusion to be broken by conventional means. Even for Amaterasu, we do not even know the mechanics of the technique. Yes, we are aware that the result is the production of flames as hot as the sun, but we do not know the requirements for Itachi to produce it. However, all this is conjecture, and nothing can be determined from this. By the way, isn't this just random discussion? It's quite irrelevant to the article. Sephiroth BCR 02:11, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

strongest character

isn't Jiraiya the strongest character in naruto?

Well besides naruto in ultimate kyubi form(which we havnt seen but i hope we will) we cant say for sure beacuse there are still strong characters that have to display what they can do but following the power chain (orochimaru fears itachi, itachi is cautious if not fears Jiraiya) it does stand to reason that he could be one of if not the strongest. but its a big world out there.BLaCk 23:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

whith the Akatsuki leader in it.--Kenshin -Himura 11:03, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd say Orochimaru-sama is the strongest character in Naruto. He can summon the dead to eternal life by easily obtaining human sacrifices, though I'm not really sure if he can summon the First and Second Hokages again since they were sealed within Shinigami. Can Orochimaru-sama summon the Fourth Hokage? Kabuto Yakushi Kabuto Yakushi

That's still open for debate. If Orochimaru is the strongest, why would he be afraid of Itachi? --64.14.194.26 21:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, he can summon the fourth. Remember when he was fighting with Sandaime and he summoned the first two Hokages? Sandaime stopped him from summoning the last one - the Fourth because he was thinking: "O shi-"

I bet Orochimaru is just afraid of Itachi because he has the Sharingan and can copy most of his techniques.

The Fourth Hokage is said to be the strongest ninja ever produced from Konoha, which would make him stronger than Jiraiya, Itachi, and Orochimaru. It also says in the 3rd Hokage's article that he's the second strongest after the 4th. The only non-Konoha person who might be stronger than him is the Akatsuki leader (assuming he's the strongest akatsuki). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.75.11.200 (talk) 01:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Rasengan

It said by Kakashi that Yondaime only created half of Rasengan. And since only Jiraiya and Yondaime knew Rasengan, could it be possible that Jiraiya created the other half?

No. Read it again. You misunderstood. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Rasengan itself is only a half-complete technique. The ultimate in form manipulation, creating a perfectly swirling ball of chakra. It won't be a complete technique, however, until someone manages to add nature manipulation also, which is what Naruto is attempting to do with his kage bunshins.

Jiraiya might have done it, but we don't know. It's like Kishimoto avoided to say if Jiraiya has done so. But that might make Naruto's Fuuton : Rasengan look like crap, so ...SSJ 5 03:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Differences between Manga Chapter 90 and Anime Episode 52

• In the Manga, Jiraiya is only briefly reluctant to train Naruto and agrees to do so fairly quickly. In the Anime, he is much more reluctant, and Naruto chases him all over Konoha before realizing that the Ninja Centerfold is his best bet.
• In the Manga, Jiraiya and Naruto are not observed. In the Anime, Ebisu recovers consciousness in time to see Naruto transform into a luscious Nymphet. Ebisu falls down a well.Das Baz 18:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
• In the Manga, the entire first training session takes place at the Kohona hot springs. In the anime, Jiraiya takes Naruto to a beautiful lake.
• In the anime, Jiraiya praises Naruto's trim body. The boy is angered by this comment, apparently feeling that the perverted Jiraiya is making a move on him.
• At the conclusion of the anime episode, Jiraiya, Naruto and a giant toad or frog take a pleasant and companionable dip in the hot baths, bringing a day of hard training to a happy conclusion. Das Baz 18:35, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The Chief Toad's Opinion of Jiraiya

Jiraiya, Peeping Tom and Pornographer, is called a "lecherous lout" by the King of Toads. This is unkind, but accurate. Das Baz 18:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Episode 53

The next episode of the anime also has some incidents that are not found in the manga. Jiraiya is more interested in observing some shapely young female tourists wearing swimsuits and splashing around in the lake than in training Naruto. (This is in both the manga and the anime). To reel his wayward teacher back in, Naruto uses (in the anime, not in the manga) his power of instant transgendering, becoming once again the "Ninja Centerfold." Das Baz 17:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Jiraiya needs Naruto to use up his ordinary chakra. In the manga, Naruto does this by doing more walking on water. In the anime, he transforms into a whole platoon of Narutos (a technique which once saved him from getting digested by a giant snake) and fights a battle royal with himselves, until he is the only shinobi left standing. Das Baz 16:30, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there a particular reason why you keep adding to this? ~SnapperTo 18:55, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Several Reasons:

• The story keeps developing.
• The manga and anime keep diverging.
• Jiraiya is a fascinating character.

Das Baz 17:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll rephrase that for him: is there any useful reason you're doing this? This is a talk page for the article, not the character. That said, you exaggerate. The differences are minor and pointless. They don't even merit mention. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 18:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The differences are neither minor nor pointless. Three times already so far in the anime, though only once in the manga, Naruto has used his powers of transgendering to transform himself into a sexy young woman in order to control his unruly teacher. This makes the anime story more erotic and disturbing than the manga story. It is also uncannily timely, given the Mark Foley scandal.Das Baz 15:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

If you really must point it out, do so on the specific episode's summary, because putting it on one of the affected character's talk pages isn't really going to accomplish anything. ~SnapperTo 00:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

You do realize the anime predates the Mark Foley scandal by a period of several years, don't you? – Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

That's right! "Coincidence reveals the will of God," as Karl Jung said. And thanks for the good advice. Das Baz 16:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Young first and second Hokage?

Jiraiya's Genin team, with the Fourth Hokage on the right. The identities of the other two are unknown (likely to be the First and Second Hokage).

No. Learn the timeline. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 05:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

It could just be symbolic - no need to worry about timeline. Besides, look at how similar they look: Land_of_Fire#Hokage.2C_First. So, put the info back in.--141.213.198.142 06:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Again, no. Learn the timeline. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

You are so stubborn. It's no harm to say they might be First and Second Hokage. It's also more interesting, and thus better for the reader. Your censoring edit was wholly unjustified. So I suggest you correct your mistake by adding the info back into the caption. --141.213.198.142 06:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

We don't add speculation. Take it to a forum. Jiraiya wasn't even born when those two were children. Use some common sense. Should I even bother pointing out that neither the First or Second Hokages looked anything like those two? – Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If the picture is purely symbolic, then the other two could very well be the First and Second Hokage. Just as caterpillars don't look like butterflies, niether should you expect them to look like adults. It is no speculation when we have solid evidence as in this case. So, you have no right to delete the info from the caption.--141.213.198.142 06:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

You don't have any evidence. You're guessing. Every other image in that particular episode showed actual teams. Therefore, that is Jiraiya's team. Does that make any sense, or should I make it sound more condesending to get my point across? Read WP:OR and stop proposing such theories. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I will not argue anymore on this issue. However, there is a clear resemblance between those two shown in the picture and the First and Second Hokage. In the future, I expect you to show more understanding of the edits others make.--141.213.198.142 06:48, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

And in the future I expect you to understand the difference between speculation and fact. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

And just incase you have any doubt, remember this: Tsunade is the First Hokage's granddaughter. Additionally, she was Jiraiya's teammate as a child. So, why would Jiraiya be the teacher of his peer's grandfather? ~SnapperTo 07:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I looked at their similiarities, and I find none. The only white-haired character in Jiraiya's team is himself, therefore there is no Second Hokage. The child with a profile view is a girl (to balance girl:boy ratio in team), and the last one shares little resemblance to the First. Also, the Second Hokage trained the Third Hokage. In a flashback with a young Third, the Second Hokage was probably in his 20s, along with the First Hokage. When the Third Hokage is older (likely in his early 20s), he trains Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru (who are six, according to the official data book). By the time Jiraiya gets his team, the two Hokages are either dead or old men. -Anonymous

Ok ok ok look at this Jiraiya was thought by the 3rd Hokage and the 3rd knew the 1st and 2nd Hokage when the 3rd was a child. So the 1st and 2nd came first and then the 3rd and then Jiraiya.

-That is clearly Jiraiya's genin team. That episode (and indeed that chapter of the manga) show the progression of time from the days of the Shodai and Nidaime, who train Sandaime, who trains Jiraiya, who trains Yondaime, who trains Kakashi, who train our lovable brats. That picture is clearly meant to be Jiraiya with his genin team. The context of the episode should make this absolutely 100% clear.

ERm I think the two on the Left is Morino Ibiki and his sister Anko. It fits the timeline better than the first and Second...LOLTriblade84 16:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Except Ibiki and Anko aren't related, there's a three year gap in their ages (making it unlikely they were ever teamed together), they are both close to Kakashi in age (and the Fourth Hokage was Kakashi's sensei), and they were both teenagers when the Fourth Hokage (an adult at the time) sealed the demon fox into Naruto. So, I'd say the odds of the Fourth Hokage's teammates being Anko and Ibiki are zilcho. ~SnapperTo 22:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, Orochimaru trained Anko.

ive been thinking maybe the two mystery ninja Are maybe Kurenai and Asuma. --Spartan117009 00:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Not possible, considering Asuma´s relative age. - !Malomeat 00:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

It's fair to say that we simply don't know who those people are and, take not of this, shouldn't add speculation about it until we do know. Retlor 11:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

agreed--Spartan117009 06:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

In all your talk of Itachi and Jiriya

You guys left out the confrontation between Itachi/Kisame and Jiriya/Naruto/Sasuke from the article.