Talk:Dragon Ball GT

GT Is Fake.

Note: This discussion is purely off topic in respect to the guidelines of the "Discussion" portion of this article and should be removed. it essentialy claims that because there are plot holes(most of which are speculation based) and akira toriyama didn't have a lot of involvement in the series. the bottem line is that it DOES take place in the Dragonball time line. there fore it is associated with Dragonball. Evirus 69.14.33.214 14:42, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that Dragon Ball GT should NOT be considered important at all. Although fun to watch, and interesting, it doesn't relate corectly to DBZ, and was not created by Akira Toriyama. Therefore, i concider DBGT to be FAKE and simply a "What if?" T.V. series. KojiDude 04:46, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

as far as i'm concerned, DBGT never existed. 71.224.24.99 14:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it was a bad series, but we need to learn from mistakes. --Yancyfry jr 03:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not a good series, I agree. It even damages the reputation of the good series that came before. But, your opinion or mine doesn't matter here: it's just about making good articles about what was released. JRP 15:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

is there anywhere i can buy the Blue Water dub version

Dragonball GT sucks. I hope Akira Toriyama makes someday a real sequel to Dragonball Z that explains that everything that happens in GT , never occured (a bad dream). Everything in Gt sucks, excepting possibly the Bebi Arc, which is the only with a earlier Dragonball style.

Well I liked it >_>

I don't understand you people, GT is canon to the anime not the manga. The manga is what DB and DBZ follow very closley but there are still parts of DB and DBZ that are filler in order to fill up the half-hour, are the filler parts canon to the manga. No, the events didn't occur in the manga but GT is canon to the anime, the anime and manga are different continuities. GT is part of Dragon ball Anime canon not manga, and it is rude and disrespectful to the creators of DBGT to say that the show they worked on is not canon.

Actually, no it isn't cannon to the anime either. If it was, Pilaf wouldn't be alive. KojiDude (talk) 21:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Why wouldn't Pilaf be alive? If you're talking about the time Kid Buu destroyed Earth and only the good people were restored, Pilaf was in space at the time. He was looking for the Black Star Dragonballs. Jienum 19:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I specifically remember (on earth) Pilaf making some sort of comment when Goku was gathering energy for the Genki Dama and asking the people of earth for help. I could be wrong, though.--KojiDude 20:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I think GT is a total fabrication of DB/Z. To me, GT isn't even part of Dragon Ball!

1)This isn't a messageboard, this is a talk page about ways to improve the article. 2)While Akira Toriyama didn't create GT, he did eventually come in to work on it(around the Evil Shenlong saga). 3)DBGT is part of Dragon Ball canon, wheter you like it or not(I personally LOVE GT). TJ Spyke 00:25, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

• It is not canon. It is laden with plot holes and errors. It isn't even that great, average at best. Though Toriyama did work on it eventually it still doesn't have a place within Dragonball canon.--suit-n-tie 04:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. Let's focus on the plot holes. Since one huge plot hole leads to all of the others, I'm going to state the reason why GT should not have happaned. Pilaf was alive. This has been posted a couple of times on several different pages already, but Pilaf should not have been alive because Buu blew up the Earth and when Dende wished for the people of Earth to be ressurected, he wished for only the good guys to come back. Somebody said that Pilaf was alive because he was looking for the black star dragon balls at the time, which is false because they were introduced in GT. I haven't seen every episode of Z so I could be wrong, but I have the last three manga and I don't remember seeing Pilaf looking for the dragon balls at all. So that means Goku would never had been turned into a kid, they never would've gone to space looking for the dragon balls, they never would have met Baby, etc. One more thing, how does Dr. Myuu, the Ginyu force and all of those other villians who were fought on planets other than Earth end up in Earth's hell? I can see how Freeza would be in Earth's hell (when he came back as Mecha Freeza), but shouldn't he have been in his mecha form? And don't the other planets have their own hell? Sasuke-kun27 21:45, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

100% correct. The Pilaf thing is undoubtedley Toei's biggest screw up ever. Also, for those that are obsessed with GT and want to say he was in space at the time, that would be fanwanking it. There's no concreate evidence that he was in space. Also, the supossed "HFIL" thing should just be ignored... Nobody ever really went down there in the manga, and Toei made it different each time it was shown. (The explanation for the Ginyu force, though, is that they were "invited" to King Kai's and thrown into "Earth's hell".)--KojiDude 01:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Pilaf was probably lying in a ditch with his cohorts, not flying through the galaxy. Also, how would he have found out where they were anyway? Its not like he was flying around in space and happened to find the BlackStar Dragonballs.Also, why did Cooler come out of hell? Because GT is fake. Cooler is not a canon villain, so GT is fake. That was just one out of, like, a helluva lotta plot holes that make GT fake.--suit-n-tie 04:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it might to a point be fanwanking it, however just because it wasn't stated doesn't mean something didn't happen. There probably is an explanation for the Pilaf thing, but it wasn't stated because it didn't seem important. So you're saying basically that because you don't see say Krillin being born it doesn't mean it happened? That's just what it sounds like to me. I think some things have to be assumed in order for continuity to occur because not everyone can think of everything. Yes, I have seen the Dragonball series and I enjoyed DBGT.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 02:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

But if you think about it, enough uncanonical things happen in GT that make it non-canon. There is no explanation for the Pilaf thing. He was on Earth. He's evil so he wasn't revived.--Suit-n-tie 02:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

When the series was created, Toei intended it to be a direct sequel to DBZ. Even with all the plot holes and how much they hurt the series, it's meant to be canon. Things like Pilaf still being alive and Gohan going SSJ are oversights in light of the bigger picture. DBGT, plot holes and all, is TOEI (not Toriyama) canon whether you want to accept it or not. Unlike the movies, GT isn't a "side-story". It takes place after Dragon Ball Z. I apologize if I sound rude. GI Judd 20:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

But the whole "Pilaf being alive in GT" thing is not only the biggest plot hole in the series, but also proof that GT shouldn't have happened. People say that it is a continuation of Z (which would be impossible. See my previous sentence) and even an alternate ending to Z. I'm not sure what they mean, but if they mean that if everything after the World Tournament Saga didn't happen, that would mean that Uub would never have been created, Bebi would have destroyed Goku and the others (if you saw GT, Majuub was inside Bebi in his final form and Oozaru form and prevented Bebi from attacking the Z fighters), Earth would have been destroyed for good, Super 17 wouldn't have been created and the Evil Dragons wouldn't have been set free. See where I'm getting at? Sasuke-kun27 21:30, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Why is this discussion still going? GT isn't canonical. Toei made that strange alternate what-if series because they wanted to milk DB for all its worth..--Suit-n-tie 21:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I think we probably all can agree with that. They made GT because they wanted more money. Ok, but since Akira Toriyama did come and work on it then it is canon. He had to agree with it at one point then and because it's universe then it's canon. If some random fan came and made it then yeah, it's non-canon but the fact that the creator had to have agreed at one point then it makes it canon. I'm not trying to be rude or anything but how can it not be canon? Plot holes are plot holes but it doesn't make it non-canon. It might make continuity a little weird but being canon is completely different than have continuity.  Orfen ^{User Talk} 22:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't it have to be in the original manga to be canon? Sasuke-kun27 23:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

From my understanding it has to come from the original author, as Akira Toriyama is the original author and he eventually worked on GT, it would be considered canon. "Usually items that are considered canon come from the original source of the fictional universe while non-canon material comes from adaptations or unofficial items." - canon (fiction)  Orfen ^{User Talk} 00:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I said that earlier. But, just because he worked on it he never said he considered it canon. He just went on about how he didn't mind the show and thought it was ok. He didn't say anything about it being a part of his story. It was part of Toei's DB World. Not Toriyama's. Is that a fair compramise?--Suit-n-tie 01:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

While I believe GT is canon, the fact that Toriyama worked on it doesn't mean anything. Toriyama also did some work on quite a few of the DBZ movies, yet those are non canon. GI Judd 20:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC)GI Judd

Canon in fiction is defined as genuine or official within the pertinent fictional universe. The involvement of the original author has nothing to do with it. I haven't seen proof here either way on GT's canonicity, but saying "Toriyama didn't write it so it's not canon" doesn't really hold water. The same goes with saying "Toriyama worked on it so it's canon". A good example would be in comics. Few comics continue to be writen by the original author. They are still considered canon. Some stories ARE written by the original author, but take place outside of the established universe. These are not considered canon. And the presence of plot holes doesn't determine canonicity either. That's just bad writing. CPitt76 16:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

1st off let me on this topic. I have been following DBZ for a very long time. So I know alot of what I'm talking about when it comes to DB. I believe the GT is canon and this is why. As said before by many that it is a anime source for DB not manga. Yea the manga is the true DB, but anime wise GT is canon. 2nd Akira Toriyama has himself and you can find this on nearly any sources on A.Toriyama, that he acknowledges DBGT which in itself make it canon as many of you said that the creator of DB can acknowledge if something is or isn't canon. Yes there are a few plotholes but he himself again said that if he continued DB that he would have went the same route with DBGT that the writers did. Yes he also worked on GT and he did help create some of the characters too as well as some designs for a few main characters.

If you wanna talk plothole? In a realness DBZ has just as many plothole as GT does. Also it has the biggest plothole in DB history that is shown in the anime. The Garlic JR saga. Now to you ones thats about to try and come with that it non canon stuff you better look a DBZ a lot more closely because plothole that you guys overlook that can make DBZ Anime in itself non canon. go ahead and argue me down but its true. I'm not a DBZ hater. I love DBZ and think it canon but you do have to think about that for a second.

On Pilaf, do not put speculation on him being on Earth or not at the time of Earth's destuction by Buu. No one except the creator can tell you this so i suggest you contact him and ask. Also if it was like that about the people that were bad and/or evil in nature not being wished back, then why was #17 who did appear in the anime and manga near the end of the Buu saga giving energy to Goku's Genke Dama alive? Unlike his sister #18 who became good he was and is still consider bad or evil. So it can be said that either Dende said the wish wrong(can any of you speak Namekian to understand the actual wish)in the excitment or the Porunga doesn't care who is evil or good and revived everyone. Also there are quite a few bad natured people that shows up in the filler before the end of DBZ, and if I'm not mistaken it was wished that the Most Evil not to returned and I don't think you can consider Pilaf the most evil.

However the FACT is if the creator of DRAGON BALL acknowledges DRAGON BALL GRAND TOUR as part of the anime portion of the DB series then the fact is that it is CANON part of the anime!! If you are going to use the manga line then all the Dragonball Animes are all non canon since there are so many plothole in every last one. Sorry to hurt anyone's feelings but know the true facts before your opinion is put on a page. Heat P 22:15, 5 November 2006

We get it. This discussion ended a while ago, and someone keep's starting it all over again. Also, none of this benefits the article. --SUIT⁴² 03:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Plot Holes

Removing some lines from the plot holes section:

Son Goku's immature behavior in his child form, despite retaining his adult memories and strength.

There's nothing to indicate that he should not have acted the way he did. He was after all, a kid again, even with the strength and memories of Adult Goku.

Vegeta growing (and then shaving off) a mustache, when Saiyans are previously stated to only have hair that grows in a set pattern, to a certain length. (There is no previous evidence of Vegeta shaving in the series, though his father, when depicted in the anime, had a mu

The comment about hair growing in a set pattern referred to the hair on the top of one's head. The line even mentions King Vegeta's beard, so Vegeta could have one as well.

Pan having a space suit in her size, with her name on the tag, when there should only be ones for Goku, Trunks and Goten.

Is this serious? This isn't a plot hole, it's a nitpick. There's nothing to say she couldn't have one herself, anyway.--GeneralDuke 16:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes there is, she shouldn't have one because she wasn't supposed to goKotenks 23:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

They might have had extra suits stored, and making a nametag for her would be pretty easy. TJ Spyke 00:34, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

This is an error, but a plot hole is stretching it a little. The point of this section is to make the case that Dragon Ball GT is not a true continuation because of some errors. There are errors like this in Dragon Ball Z does that mean that Dragon Ball Z isn't a continuation to Dragon Ball. This should be removed because it is not a plothole if anything it is trivia. Super 4 Vegeta 08:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I wanna let the speculation on Vegeta's hair be know. Yes it is said and stated that when a saiyian's hair reaches a certain leight it stops growing and remains that way even during adulthood(a Full Blooded Saiyian)but it was not stated that if their hair is cut off it wont grow back to it original leight. But it is now know that they can regrow their hair. This is evident when Vegeta lets his hair grow again. Meaning that a saiyian can regrow his hair and lose his hair from old age(Nappa). Mustache, guess at a certain age he could grow one. People do shave, why not a saiyain? Heat P 03:00, 03 November 2006

You're also forgetting the number of times in the series that Goku has been attacked (through DB and Z) where he's just escaped and a weapon has shaved off part of his hair, his hair returned to it's original shape and design later. When he said "A Saiyan's hair does not change from birth" could mean anything. As for Pan's Space suit, it's Capsule Corp created? They can fit entire houses into a the equivilent space of a USB thumb drive, i'm certain they can stock more then 1 space suit, or make suits that can be automatically customized to a user's shape. "The Great Saiyaman" anyone? - 59.167.46.225 03:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Navigation at bottom

It says dragonball | dragonball | dragonball GT down there. I looked around and saw an embedded DB navigation .. thingie. I don't know how to modify that, but if you click on dragonball, you will know what I mean.

Pie :) Piepants 17:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)Piepants

Vegeta's hair

Why is it a plot hole that he changed his hair? He cut it shorter. Big deal, its not like he grew a mullet.--suit-n-tie 20:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Because Vegeta himself states that full-Saiyans can not ever change their hair style. Why this is is never explained, but, hey, they turn into giant monkeys for crying out loud. They're obviousley not anything like humans. It's widley accepted as a plothole, so just leave it.--KojiDude 20:15, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Cool.--suit-n-tie 03:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

KojiDude hit the nail in the coffin. Full Saiyins(although at the end of GT Vegeta is the only one left alive) cannot grow their hair back out, so by cutting it he's gonna be stuck with it being that short forever(which for Saiyins is longer than humans). TJ Spyke 00:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion

Should we add a "Series Summary" to the article? 70.156.238.169 02:31, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

There already is one.--suit-n-tie 03:30, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Plotholes 2

Why was it gotten rid of? Those are important to show GT story faults Kotenks 21:56, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Vegeta's tail ....wth???

I was watching episode 62 of GT and when Vegeta powers down to Normal, his tail literally disapears in thin air (even on camera lol) . What the hell? Did his tail fall out of go back in or something?

Can anyone come up with a logical explanation for Vegeta's tail? I mean I've seen plot holes but WOW....that's just crazy (Thats as if In Matrix, Neo suit just changed colour in the next shot and they never mentioned it again)

It's a plot hole. Use your imagination to find out where it went to.--Suit-n-tie 02:24, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

hehe......I get it sort of "Went back in". That's a big plot hole in "Z" too (Goku SSJ3........how the hell is the hair suposed to "ungrow back?" (Happens alot to saiyans in both series...........so it's safe to say that it's normal for their hairs to grow and ungrow back (like vegeta ssj4 or goku ssj4........their red hair just aparently disapears)

What you have to understand about the hair is that they're a fictional race from another planet. You can't expect aliens to be "normal". The hair is just a trait of the Saiyan race. I bet Dogs probably think we're weird when we play video games or put on clothes.--KojiDude ^{(viva la BAM!)} 23:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Nice simile. Thats true about them being aliens people need to realize they are not normal. User:Big foot123456789

You should also keep in mind that SSJ4 seems to put them in an optimal form of sorts, regardless of the base. Goku goes from child-sized to full grown, so Vegeta's tail shouldn't be too much of a stretch. Onikage725

Same way Goku returns to child form in GT, Vegeta's tail disappears. When they power down, they go back to their old forms. It's not a plot hole or even a nitpick. - 59.167.46.225 03:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

You are right. In is not nitpickin or a plothole. Remember Goku was growing his tail back when it was pulled out by the Kaioshins. Because he was a kid again and saiyan children grow their tails back until they become an adult where it stop growing once it's removed is the reason Goku bacame a SSJ4 naturally. As for Vegeta, He became a SSJ4 through artifical means. He was give a enormous amount of blutes waves to transform so when he powered down he would need that amount of blutes waves to become a SSJ4 again because he never naturally grew his tail back or becaome a SSJ4 the same way Goku did. That may also explain why he does not totally look the same as Goku's form like the other SSJ forms look so much a like (that's just my opinion and not an Original Research). So him not having his tail when returned to normal was because he went back to his base form before the artifical blutes waves was used on him. Meaning his tail disappeared. SSD4 08:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Tapion's Sword

Trunks uses a sword in this series, which he recieved in Movie 13 (coincidently 1 of the 2 movies that can fit into the DB timeline with no contradictions)

I was wondering, does that Make Movie 13 part of the official timeline? (or is it also considered not official by most fans? ) <Not an argument, just a question>

Well, that's sort of a redundant question seeing as how most people consider GT non-canon. If it was canon, however, then scicne movie 13 fits into the timeline, yes, that would officially make Movie 13 canon.--KojiDude ^{(viva la BAM!)} 23:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

yeah the reality is is that this story fits in with the dragon ball story....if you consider trunks in gt to be canon. since the sword trunks recieved was never really seen in gt......i dont know leave it to your imagination. User:Big foot123456789

Just drop this. It's not even in the correct place.--Suit-n-tie 04:04, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Peer review alert!

Attention Dragon Ball experts; Son Goten, an article that is closely related to this article is being Peer Reviewed. Please help out with the peer review by giving your opinions, statements, and most importantly; voice at the review. The peer review's page can be found here. Don't forget to spread the word! SGFF 01:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

To the IP who keeps starting this disscussion,

Please, stop. It's over. No assumptions are to be made about what is or is not canon, and personal attacks aren't allowed. Any attempt you make at starting the discussion again, or any personal attacks you make, will be removed/reverted.--KojiDude ^{(viva la BAM!)} 00:22, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, really.--Suit-n-tie^{Talk About The Suit} 00:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the personal attacks are out of line and support their removal. I also see that you've removed large sections of this page (some of which contained personal attacks, some of which really didn't). Please be careful of what you remove on discussion pages. Wikipedia allows editors to remove personal attacks, but not to dictate what others may talk about. Even in cases where discussion strays from the article itself or seems to rehash previous discussion, it's not standard practice to just remove/revert other people's comments. CPitt76 01:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

...Oh...sorry...--a stressed out Suit-n-tie^{Talk About The Suit} 01:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

No worries. I understand how frustrating some people can be. The important thing is that you two don't let vandals bait you into violating Wikipedia policies and get you in trouble. If you guys get blocked, who's going to keep the DB articles in check? :) CPitt76 01:53, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Somehow, that slightly raised me outta my rut...Thanks.--Suit-n-tie^{Talk About The Suit} 02:32, 27 September 2006 (UTC) Not stressed no more!

Appears in: DBGT Template

Does anyone know what happened to the template? Last I remember, it was up for deletion but I don't know if they went through with it or not (I'm guessing so). Whenever I type in the template, nothing pops up. So really, I have two questions: 1) What happened to the template? And 2) What are we supposed to use in it's place? We can't have DB, DBZ or DB Movie templates if there is no DBGT. // Sasuke-kun27 11:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't deleted. I think...--SUIT⁴² 20:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Dubai TV

Please be advised: A vandal (IP1 IP2 IP3) has made an edit to this page which has not been reverted. See here. If this fact cannot be verified independently, it's suggested that you remove it. His word alone cannot be trusted given his contribution history. –Gunslinger47 04:54, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I've been assured that Dubai TV has never carried DBGT, nor has Spacetoons. See here: User talk:Al1976#Dubai TV I'm removing the link now. –Gunslinger47 04:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

About the villains list

... There's one there "Black Smoke Shen Long" which redirects to the top of this page. I find it sorta annoying when a link on a page redirects to itself. However, I don't know much of the workings of this place, so I'm not sure how to fix it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.69.88.64 (talk • contribs)

Thanks for the notification. This is how you correct it: Firstly, find out where it ought to link to. In this case, List of dragons in Dragon Ball#Evil Shenlong. Try to navigate to Black Smoke Shen Long, but then you'll get sent here. However, at the top of the page, there is text that says "(Redirected from Black Smoke Shen Long)". Click the link there and you'll be taken to a place where you can edit the redirect. From there, it's pretty easy to figure out. For more help on redirects, please see Help:Redirect. –Gunslinger47 03:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)