Talk:Pirate metal

Other bands

Wouldn't Alestorm qualify? 174.62.68.53 (talk) 03:12, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Christopher Bowes's reaction about pirate metal as an official genre

https://www.reddit.com/r/Alestorm/comments/3l357i/pirate_metal_is_officially_a_genre_laddies/ according to this he thinks it's awful, not sure if he's sarcastic or not but he's still awesome for responding to fan posts (Chris is hyperchrisz) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.142.156.209 (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

In light of this interview (and his general demeanour), I'm positive he wasn't serious, yeah. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 00:59, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

How Subgenres Work

A genre is considered a subgenre of another genre when it can be entirely encompassed by the parent genre. For example, all black metal can be described as extreme metal, as the core elements that encapsulate black metal music by definition will also be considered a form of extreme metal. Since all pirate metal bands cannot necessarily be described as power metal, folk metal, thrash metal, or speed metal, it cannot be described as a subgenre of any of these genres. It's an entirely different genre that has stylistic origins in quite a few various metal genres. If you look at all bands described in this article, unless they all could be described as any of the above genres on top of pirate metal, pirate metal cannot be described as a subgenre of these genres. However this is not the case. If you want to link to this article on other subgenre pages from which it originated, do it in the "Other Styles" or "Related Styles" section. As subgenre is not an accurate word for the genre. Vortiene (talk) 05:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

"Piratical jargon".

Visions of Atlantis

Who keeps remove the part about them? They are now pirate metal just like most other bands listed. Most of Running wilds songs are not about pirates so why are they listed if not visions? 73.134.56.192 (talk) 17:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Why are you being so controlling over this? Do you not like expanding a wiki page with more information? 2601:5CB:C381:6CA0:D07F:A78E:B363:689 (talk) 12:53, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Why are you promoting a future album so hard? Binksternet (talk) 15:08, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Doesn’t answer the question. Most of what was there was about the previous albums. So again why do you think you control the pirate metal wiki page? 73.134.56.192 (talk) 14:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Visions of Atlantis are consistently described as symphonic metal with lesser connections to goth, pop and power metal. Nobody calls them "pirate metal". Which means there is very little reason to put more detail about them into this article. Binksternet (talk) 16:20, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I wanted to add to this conversation. I saw before there was a link to an article that labeled them has pirate metal. Also I noticed that by the definition at the beginning of this page they fit the definition " characterized by its incorporation of pirate mythology within the music and sometimes in stage performances". They are symphonic power metal with a pirate theme to their music and image why would you not include what that user added? Maybe not the next album thing (I kind of get that). Also goth and pop are not what they are described has. Maybe look them up and see for yourself they are by definition pirate power metal now. 2603:3003:320E:6100:98B8:7B28:7A65:70EE (talk) 17:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I would be much more convinced if WP:SECONDARY sources were calling them pirate metal explicitly, which hasn't been happening. Of course the band qualifies for a mention in this loosely defined topic, with their pirate-themed albums. However, without lots of uninvolved secondary sources discussing them as pirate metal explicitly, I'm not seeing why we need to document their every move. They are not proved to be super important to the topic. By the way, AllMusic called their first album "symphonic metal" with "pop hooks" and "goth metal tendencies". The second album was called "symphonic pop metal" with influences of prog rock and "AOR pop". Even in 2022, Pirates was described by Blabbermouth as symphonic metal with three "immaculate pop-metal gems" among the songs, and two power metal songs. So pop is part of the picture. Binksternet (talk) 21:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Allmusic is not a good resource. I have found them to be riddle with errors over the years. Also they just like to add styles and genres to bands just because and their albums are out of release order. Motorhead is listed has pop/rock. I dont wanna be such a stickler about it but they truly are like THE definition of the style now. Almost all of Alestorms albums are listed and the last few albums most of the songs lyrically have been about partying and they now longer dress like pirates. Detritus is listed and they are

Christian Metal. So in conclusion I don't think you are being fair about it and the fact that you dont wanna expand the article is truly a mystery to me. 2601:5CB:C381:6CA0:7567:23D6:6372:41A7 (talk) 23:06, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia exists to summarize reliable sources for the reader. AllMusic album reviews and artist biographies written by career music critics are considered quite reliable. The unreliable part of AllMusic is the automatically generated genre list which used to be in a sidebar, and now is seen above the review or biography. See WP:ALBUMAVOID which talks about this problem. Aside from automated genres being unreliable, AllMusic is a great source, and we use it all the time. Even if you take issue with AllMusic prose reviews, they are undeniably part of the literature on a topic, and they will always contribute to the summary about an album or a band. Binksternet (talk) 23:52, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

You just said there genres are unreliable but then say they are a good resource? Additionally you did not address anything else said. If the bands own social media accounts and their website is not a reliable source than I don't know what is. Again I ask why do you think you control this page? They meet all the criteria of the genre. 2601:5CB:C381:6CA0:CD5C:A942:C03B:BE9E (talk) 02:27, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I said the AllMusic prose review is reliable, the one signed by a career music critic. If the music critic discusses genres then that is a reliable source.

A band's own opinion doesn't count for much on Wikipedia because the foundation of knowledge is always uninvolved WP:SECONDARY sources. Music critics define the genre, not the band. Binksternet (talk) 13:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Thats your opinion on whether critics define a genre. They can but they do not dictate what genre a band is completely. And you still have not addressed how they do not meet the criteria of genre. Style origin: Power Metal. Pirate mythology and in music: empirically yes and including their stage performances. Pirate jargon in lyrics: again empirically yes. And whichever "critic" said they are gothic metal do not understand what the genre of "gothic metal" is. So i guess i give up and allow you to be the dictator of this page for you seem to be an expert all a lot of things except this music style. 2603:3003:320E:6100:B8B4:5B63:4DB9:B0C8 (talk) 14:02, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Example: the critic review for Metallica's Load album calls in "heavy metal" when in fact it is a hard rock album with a few thrash metal elements. That just one out of many. 2603:3003:320E:6100:B8B4:5B63:4DB9:B0C8 (talk) 14:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)