Talk:Babel (film)

Bias in meaning of the word "Babel"--source of subjectivity

By omitting the first definition of "babel" in the first part of the Extended Summary section, the writer seems to be purposefully misrepresenting the definition of babel, so as to make a certain point. I feel as if including the first definition of babel ought to be there. Without it, this is a rather subjective Extended Summary section, when we should be aiming for an objective one.

Just my two cents.

What was the Japanese guy hunting in Morocco?

What important game would make a man from Japan come to Morocco?

Bias in "Themes"

I just saw the movie, and it seems like this section is extremely slanted to promote an individual's political beliefs. The nanny's deportation is a fine comment, but Brad Pitt's character is only frustrated over the reality he's in. As a matter of fact, he offers the Morrocan money before he leaves in the helicopter!

Yeah, here's another great example of someone putting their own ideas into a supposedly non-partial analysis: "perhaps under pressure from the US government (though this is never explicitly shown)" Take this out immediately please! 210.20.86.85 16:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Nationality of the Film

Should this be considered an American film or a Mexican film? The studio is American, as are the producers. The director is from Mexico and filmed some portions there. So where does that leave the film? The cast is international, the languages are numerous. I couldn't even say which language is used the most. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 23:48, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be considered American because of the studio. But I think that the article should reflect what you stated -- the international cast, the languages used, the locations in which Babel was filmed. --Erik (^talk/_contrib) @ 00:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I ask primarily for the purpose of categorization. The infobox describes it as Mexican but I disagree. I don't know how much discussion of the international nature of this film is warranted in the actual article, but I suppose there's no harm in it either. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 02:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The Summary is missing Information

The movie doesn't end with the Mexican woman. The plot summary is somewhat incomplete. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.109.51.239 (talk) 23:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

The movie ends with the message, "guns are mean and scary, border enforcement is mean and scary, and Western nations are too blame." What more do you want? --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 06:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

For starters, a description of the film's meaning might be a nice addition. As of 2/8/07, there is no mention of the original city of Babel, where, according to the Old Testament, God made it so that everyone suddenly spoke different languages. As a result of not being able to communicate, the people couldn't cooperate productively and weren't able to finish building the Tower of Babel. I respectfully disagree with the above contributor, Haizum who thinks the film's goal is to show that guns, border patrol, and Western nations are "mean and scary." Although I understand how one might arrive at this conclusion, I believe the film's title gives us a better clue as to its message. Just like the people in Babel, not one character in the movie is a particularly good communicator--especially when trying to interact with someone from a different culture. All of the countries represented in this movie are at times portrayed as "mean and scary." The Japanese are portrayed as a culture that is cold and stand-offish and has superficial, drug-abusing teenagers; the Mexicans are seen as barbaric, uncivilized, drunk-driving fugitives; the Moroccan children randomly fire rifles at buses filled with innocent people. Since all of the characters or countries are flawed and imperfect, it is too narrow an interpretation for us to say the movie "blames" the USA, and only the USA, for all the world's problems. I think as an English speaking American my gut reaction was to feel defensive (as Haizum did) after watching Babel. But that is the film's "message": in today's world it's easier for us to sympathize with our own kind than it is for us to try to understand other people and other cultures. It's not just that Americans can't relate to other societies--other societies can't relate to Americans either! Our planet has become just like the biblical town of Babel, only on a larger scale. We all speak different languages, have different values, and communicate poorly (if at all) with those who aren't like us. M. Frederick 08:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know what Chieko's final note to detective Kenji Mamiya said?

Answer: She sexually propositioned the officer??

Boxoffice statistics weren't NPOV, too fanzine

If we need to know that the movie made more money than the director's last movie, and other upbeat facts, we should also know that Box Office Mojo concluded from the anemic American boxoffice that America's interest in films like Crash and Babel has plainly declined. I spliced in a quote, to give context-- but took none of the upbeat stuff out. Profhum.

Summary

Needs a brief plot of the film to say what its about as well as the full plot

In that, might make mention of the Berbers, plus the language and cultural difference in Morocco too. Nothing much, just a note. I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, but as with Syriana, I had fun listening to the interplay between languages (don't understand a word of Berber, just knew it wasn't Arabic!). Somebody who has knowledge with the region might be able to add some insight, apart from the classic U.S. foreign policy tough-talk needlessly escalating a sensitive situation, on the domestic circumstances within Morocco itself. The Berber-Arabic mirrored the Spanish-English interplay in my mind, as well as that between the Japanese-Japanese Sign Language. Khirad 21:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

transeities?

To the best of my knowledge (and I've searched the term, singular and plural), the word "transeities", used in the plot summary, is not an English word. It apparently is a typo, but I have no idea what it might be. If someone knows, it needs to be fixed. Ward3001 00:45, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler marks

There are two "Spoilers end here" marks. 200.49.224.88 17:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Deaf-mute

The issue of the offensiveness of the term "deaf-mute" to deaf people was discussed and resolved in previous edits of this page. See talk page User talk:Cop 633. Also see discussion of details about why the term is offensive at Deaf-mute. Thank you. Ward3001 04:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Shootout Scene Inconsistencies

During the shootout scene when the Moroccan police engage Yussef, his brother and father on the hillside there is an interesting error. The police open fire, Yussef's family takes cover behind larger rocks, the shooting continues, Yussef's brother gets scared and starts to run away until he is hit in the back of the leg. He falls, Yussef's dad crawls over to him and pulls him slightly out of the line of fire. No sooner does he finish that when he notices Yussef is about to return fire on the police. Yussef's father shouts and begs Yussef to put the gun down, but Yussef ignore's him and wounds an officer in the shoulder or arm. The film then returns to the other parallel stories until it comes back to Yussef's family in Morocco. Back on the hillside Yussef's father is pulling the gun away from Yussef while Yussef's brother lies alone uphill. The brother tries to stand to run away when he is fatally struck in the back and collapses. Given the distance between Yussef's and his brother's locations and the lack of cover seperating the two areas it's unlikely Yussef's father could have returned to Yussef without getting shot, especially since he would have had to crawl over Yussef's brother to get back to Yussef. 70.135.195.113 11:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)