Talk:Ecocide/GA1: Difference between revisions

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GA Review

Unsuccessful. 48 JCL 23:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: John Cummings (talk · contribs) 12:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: 48 JCL 23:51, 18 June 2024 (UTC) Reviewing this. I am seeing some immediate concerns just looking at the lead.[reply]

Feedback: Address the current maintenance tags and also make the lead summary style. Try not to use excerpts. Paragraphs are pretty short, permanent dead links, blogs as sources?? What??? Anyways gonna QF this. 48 JCL 23:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi 48JCL thanks very much for the review, I really appreciate it, could I ask a few things to help me imporve the article?

I don't see any maintainance tags on the article and can't find any in the version history in the past weeks, can you tell me which ones you are refering to?
I've just been through the refs but I don't see any that I'd recognise as a blog, can you tell me which ones you mean?
I'm assuming you have a tool for checking dead links you used? Can you tell me which ones are dead and I'll go and fix them
Can you tell me what QF means?
If you have any other suggestions for me to get it up to standard I'd really appreciate it, I can work on the article, would it be ok to come back to you once I've done that to ask you to reassess it?

Thanks again

John Cummings (talk) 10:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@John Cummings: Should’ve phrased that better, there were a lot of blank-needed tags.

Blogs: [23] [62]. [155] is dead, [175] is SPS. QF means quickfail, [44] is permanently dead, and ecocide is a pretty big topic, so I am unsure why old sources have to be used. Also, for the examples some stuff is too long or too short. I’m also sure that the In Popular Culture section needs no sources, because pretty sure on most FA films like Saving Private Ryan, citations are not needed for the plot of the story. Cheers, 48 JCL 12:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to disagree with you on whether "In popular culture" sections should be sourced. My experience is that they are a magnet for people to put in examples that are tenuously connected to the topic, or only connected in one viewer's opinion. So it's reasonable to require that films have been mentioned in a source as depicting ecocide, to make sure we don't end up including all war films. MartinPoulter (talk) 12:46, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi John, this was an edit conflict so I'm probably duplicating 48JCL's points, but having glanced at the article:

I see minor maintenance tags on two paragraphs "In May 2017 the grassroots citizen's movement..." and "In order to enforce implementation and increase citizens' trust in EU rules,..." It seems these can be addressed easily and it would not be normal to quick-fail a review just because of those problems.
Examples of dubious sources, in the current version, refs 103, 112, but also there are a lot of activist sites used as sources: not that they should be totally excluded, but the article shouldn't rely on them greatly for factual content. Usually the actions of activists should only be mentioned if they are covered in third-party sources. In general, the citations need to make clear who is publishing the source: is it an official body, a recognised publication, a campaigning group, or just someone with a Wordpress installation? For example, ref 132 is credited to OHCHR. It could be made clear to the reader that this is the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. That helps the reader to recognise that it should be taken seriously. Where there's a named author like with ref 58 that should be clear too.
refs 155 and 44 are marked as permanent dead links.

Please don't be discouraged! MartinPoulter (talk) 12:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 30: / Line 30: @@
 :::{{yo|John Cummings}} Should’ve phrased that better, there were a lot of blank-needed tags.
 :::Blogs: [23] [62]. [155] is dead, [175] is SPS. QF means [[WP:QF|quickfail]], [44] is permanently dead, and ecocide is a pretty big topic, so I am unsure why old sources have to be used. Also, for the examples some stuff is too long or too short. I’m also sure that the In Popular Culture section needs no sources, because pretty sure on most FA films like [[Saving Private Ryan]], citations are not needed for the plot of the story. Cheers, [[User:48JCL|<b style="color: #004d5c; text-shadow: 2px 2px 4px;font-family:Trebuchet MS">48</b>]][[User talk:48JCL|<b style="color: #007d96; text-shadow: 2px 2px 4px; font-family:Trebuchet MS">JCL</b>]] 12:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
+::::I'm going to disagree with you on whether "In popular culture" sections should be sourced. My experience is that they are a magnet for people to put in examples that are tenuously connected to the topic, or only connected in one viewer's opinion. So it's reasonable to require that films have been mentioned in a source as depicting ecocide, to make sure we don't end up including all war films. [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]]) 12:46, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 :::Hi [[User:John Cummings|John]], this was an edit conflict so I'm probably duplicating 48JCL's points, but having glanced at the article:
 :::* I see minor maintenance tags on two paragraphs "In May 2017 the grassroots citizen's movement..." and "In order to enforce implementation and increase citizens' trust in EU rules,..." It seems these can be addressed easily and it would not be normal to quick-fail a review just because of those problems.