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Hoofmaster

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Article asserts author's notability as an author of gaming books, so I removed the speedy tag and moved the discussion here. No opinion from me. Article is full of irrelevant nonsense about cows, which needs to be removed even if article is kept. NawlinWiki 17:34, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - This was a CSD just a few hours ago by Dweller ... see User_talk:KathrineS#May_2007 ... then it was recreated and the {{db-repost}} tag was summarily removed ... this article is just vanispamcruftisement disguised as a biography ... lacks any WP:A to establish WP:N. —72.75.73.158 (talk · contribs) 17:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete Vanispamcruftisement put up today because Gothador is being deleted. Matt Brennen 18:10, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Not spam. An article regarding a notable programmer and author. The cow links are VERY appropriate as they are pertinant to the person in question. The article was reposted after a 'hangon' notice was blatantly ignore this morning. KathrineS 18:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)— User:KathrineS (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Weak Delete. I originally put a {{db-bio}} on this, but the books listed were written by him, and one of the links is to a scan of an article about the subject. Still, he seems to fall short of the requirements of WP:BIO. If not deleted, the article should be moved to "Andrew Mulholland". Gtg204y 18:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unless notability is demonstrated by independent, reliable sources. --Dhartung | Talk 18:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: see also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gothador.--Dhartung | Talk 18:55, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- for clarification a search on amazon.com shows 4 books written by this author. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/103-7944629-2440630?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Andrew%20Mulholland I'm not sure how to put in links yet, I'm still new to posting, editing etc. Maybe why I avoided it before. Neither here nor there, amazon.com is an independent and reliable sourse. SatinNSilk 19:12, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No claim of notability in the article, almost a speedy candidate but not quite due to the claim of having written books. Also unsourced and looks pretty much unsourcable. The fact that his "studio" gets less than 100 unique Google hits doesn't help matters any. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- and you keep pages on WWE wrestlers, and little known authors such as Allen Apell? I fail to see the difference.SatinNSilk 19:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - The Authoring appears bogus or self published. The ISBNs were all invalid. Also, no Andrew Mulholland ever graduated from Abertay. There was a Darren P. Mulholland, but he did not graduate with honors. Matt Brennen 19:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - I haven't checked the ISBNs but the books were certainly on Amazon with the subject of this article named as the author. Adambro 19:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - So amazon.com is not a valid source? That is where I got the ISBN's and the newspaper said he graduated from Abertay, not I.SatinNSilk 19:38, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Amazon.com does not have the resources to check all the ISBNs, only prints whatever the author claims. Feel free to run the ISBNs yourself if you don't believe. Also feel free to go to the Abertay website and look up the alumni. Matt Brennen 19:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - google search on ISBN-10: 1556228686: **http://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/1556228686 **http://www.aewnet.com/Store/1556228686.aspx **http://www.allbookstores.com/book/1556228686/Andrew_Mulholland/Developer's_Guide_To_Multiplayer_Games.html
- http://www.biggerbooks.com/book/1556228686
- http://www.thehobbydirectory.co.uk/22-13384091-1556228686-Developers_Guide_to_Multiplayer_Games_Wordware_Game_Developers_Library.html
- http://thattechnicalbookstore.com/book.aspx?isbn=1556228686&cp=0

I think that would be enough, but I could continue with the other books if you like.SatinNSilk 19:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not close to being enough. Anybody can provide fake ISBNs to a drop shipper, and have the ad show up on google. Run the actual ISBNs through the Library of Congress (you can do it right here on wiki) and the numbers come up as nothing. They are bogus. These books are most likely self published. The author adding fake ISBNs to make them look legit. Self published books are not wiki sources. Also, feel free to examine the alumni at Abertay. We don't need any more Essjays in Wikipedia. Matt Brennen 19:58, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- Thank you, I did run ISBN-10: 1556228686 through the Library of Congress with the following result: http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=1556228686&Search_Code=STNO&PID=6511&SEQ=20070501160116&CNT=25&HIST=1SatinNSilk 20:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm struggling to see any doubt about whether these books are genuine. They are listed on Amazon as been published by Wordware Publishing Inc and appear on their out of print list. I'd also question the assertion that the degree is fake on the basis that it seems unlikely that all graduates would be listed. Adambro 20:14, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The books are genuine and have sold worldwide. I'm not sure where you looked up the ISBN, but they are also genuine. Andrew Mulholland graduated, with honours from the University of Abertay in Dundee. Would you like a copy of the certificate, or is that not independant/valid either? Not all graduates pay the fee to be listed as Alumni, I'm sure you are aware of this. Are you now trying to suggest that Andrew Mulholland does not exist? KathrineS 20:07, 1 May 2007 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
- - I also found I had one of them written down wrong, but the results were ISBN: 1556220448
  - for ISBN 1556220766 http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=1556220766&Search_Code=STNO&PID=6511&SEQ=20070501160116&CNT=25&HIST=1
  - and for ISBN 1556229631 http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=1556229631&Search_Code=STNO&PID=6511&SEQ=20070501160116&CNT=25&HIST=1
  - All coming back as attributed to Mr. Mulholland.SatinNSilk 20:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
    - It should be noted that the question about whether or not to keep this article does not just involve whether the books are genuine, the real question is whether the subject meets the criteria set out in WP:BIO. Adambro 20:14, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - Comment Thanks for running those ISBNs. My Library of Congress search filters out vanity publishers like Wordware, who printed the 25-print runs for andrew. Vanity published books are not valid wiki-sources. Matt Brennen 20:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - I still say that as a programmer and an author he holds as much interest as many on here. I have things to actually do tonight, so I will look them up sometime tomorrow. I have delayed things that needed attending long enough. I only delayed them because it seemed like if I did not, this issue would be killed without further thought. So for you all, have a good night.SatinNSilk 20:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The author's works do not appear to rise to the level of significance indicated at WP:BIO for inclusion in Wikipedia. PCock 20:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I don't question the existence of the person or books, but I don't see non-trivial independent secondary sources for verification and notability. --Wafulz 22:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It's a nickname for a legitimate business owner with verifiable sources of business and income. What, are you going to ask for Bill Gates to be removed next? --NytDunne 23:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
Delete junk JuJube 03:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete possible speedy. I deleted this as patent nonsense and as an article lacking context earlier today and in my view the article is still nonsense. The article does not mention the books currently although it did today. Unless the books are published under the name Hoofmaster, the article should be in the name of the author. Further, they should demonstrate that the author has some level of notability. Capitalistroadster 03:52, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not notable per WP:BIO. --Dweller 08:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- Keep - A notable author and programmer

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Programming-Multiplayer-Wordware-Developers-Library/dp/1556220766/ref=sr_1_1/203-7610856-3469561?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178107760&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Developers-Guide-Multiplayer-Wordware-Library/dp/1556228686/ref=sr_1_4/203-7610856-3469561?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178107760&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Java-Programming-Wordware-Developers-Library/dp/1556229631/ref=sr_1_8/203-7610856-3469561?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178107760&sr=8-8

His newest game has flown since its release and has a much higher Alexa rating than the webgame standard - Outwar.com - http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.fallensword.com

--Radneto 13:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 55: / Line 55: @@
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Java-Programming-Wordware-Developers-Library/dp/1556229631/ref=sr_1_8/203-7610856-3469561?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178107760&sr=8-8
-His newest game has an good Alexa rating - http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.fallensword.com higher than the SO called Webgame standard - Outwar
+His newest game has flown since its release and has a much higher Alexa rating than the webgame standard - Outwar.com -  http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.fallensword.com
 --[[User:Radneto|Radneto]] 13:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)