Talk:Hockey: Difference between revisions

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"For example, in North America, hockey refers to ice hockey, the finest form of the sport, whereas in the UK the same word denotes field hockey, which is regarded as a lesser version of hockey."

the part about ice hockey being the finest form of the game, while I whole-heartedly agree, seems more than slightly POVish...

I second the opinion above. To maintain NPOV, I think that the words that I have shown in bold should be removed. Since I don't actually follow hockey (of either type) I shall leave the edit to someone who watches these pages and has contributed. Although maybe as a neutral observer I should be the one...(?) Maybe I will come back and check in a week or so... --Muchado 05:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I dont understand why this is an disambiugation page. The characteristics of hockey regardless of whether it is on field or on ice sure needs a wiki entry. --- froderik

Perhaps because most people searching for "hockey" are looking for a particular hockey. This page will let them select the hockey they meant. Tom Brown 17:39, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What about ball hockey? Where would that fall under? In Canada, we usually play ball hockey, meaning a sport like ice hockey (same sticks) but with an orange ball, usually in a gym or outdoors on pavement.--Sonjaaa 21:16, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)

That is not hockey, that is ball hockey. All forms of of ice hockey is originated from the true original ice hockey. Therefor we should not refer to hockey as ice hockey but as hockey.

Field Hockey at www.scporto.com

There is no such thing as "ice" hockey. Hockey played on ice is hockey. Other forms of the game are field hockey and ball hockey, but hockey played on ice is hockey. Calling hockey "ice hockey" is like calling baseball "field baseball". That sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it?

This is an international encyclopedia, and we cater for for everyone around the world. When someone says "hockey" in Australia they only mean field hockey. Hockey played on ice is "ice hockey". Think outside the rink.--Commander Keane 23:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's the UK bias of this encyclopedia. It claims to have an international point of view, but it's really a European point of view.

Do you really think that the american POV is international? If i said 'ice hockey' to you, you know exactly what i mean. If you said hockey to me i would instantly think of field/turf hockey (which btw was invented before ice hockey...)PhatePunk 09:34, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ice hockey is thought to be descended from lacrosse, and who knows how long that had been played? Besides, as soon as they started playing hockey on ice, you'd think they'd have immediately stopped playing that wimpy field hockey! :-) Biff Loman 00:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, what a bunch of bull. Hockey refers exclusively to what ignorant people may term "field hockey". The people who seem to place ice hockey are the Canadians and Americans. (202.177.229.252 08:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC))[reply]

And Russians... And Swedes... And Finns... And Germans... And... all of the northern world in general.

Only pussies play field hockey. 70.49.243.186 15:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As much as i love arguing against americans in wikipedia's best interest both sports should be refered to as the longer meaning; ice hockey and field hockey to avoid confusion. Jezzyjez 07:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just like to say i think this article is very good. I am a player of both ice and field hockey and it sadens me that some people fail to apreciate either of the sports. Purely due to ignorance of course... I would suggest more info on Street hockey, also more field hockey links. Maybe http://www.narrowstep.com/fieldhockey/nsp1-tabs.htm as one? 172.203.154.149 00:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disambig?

I think this is an article rather than a disambiguation page, and will adjust accordingly if there is no objection.--Commander Keane 13:57, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There are still nearly 300 links to this article which do not intend to link to hockey in the general sense. Those links still need to be cleaned up, a task upon which I am slowly working. D-Rock 00:29, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the links are cleaned up, there are a few that I could not use Google or context clues to figure which kind of hockey was being spoken of, and some that actually should point here. I would suggest removing the redirect on hockey (disambiguation), and making a shorter, actual disambig page there. (containing only field, ice, roller, & street?) D-Rock 02:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If Hockey played on ice is going to be called "Ice Hockey" it absolutely needs its own entry.

It has ! Ice hockey. Lvr 16:49, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

the field hockey sucks bit

Took out the "less spectating but strong participation" bit on account of its generally being wrong. WookMuff 01:23, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hockey

Street Hockey or Ball Hockey is usually played with either a tennis ball or, a hockey ball. The hockey ball is an orange plastic and depending on the weather or area of play, a hard or soft ball is picked. Mostly, there are no in-line skates. Due to the fact of injury. Playing this type of hockey takes a minimum of equipment. Most of the time, just a hockey stick and gloves. Orginized ball hockey teams wear knee and elbow pads, jock/jill,shin guards and sometimes a helmet. Shoulder pads are not worn because this keeps the aggretion to a minumum. Golies wear all ice hocky gear.

Capitalisation and other variants

Why do "Floor Hockey", "Foot Hockey", "Mini Sticks", "Gym Hockey" and "Sled Hockey" have a capital "H" here, unlike the others? Are these five brand names?

There's also no mention in the list of rink hockey or Unihoc. It also isn't clear whether either Floor Hockey or Gym Hockey is the same as Unihoc. Unihoc is played with a puck and plastic double-sided sticks, which are more rounded in shape than those used for ice hockey. It was quite often played when I was at school. -- Smjg 16:27, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here we play Unihoc with a ball ;-) Lvr 16:33, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whereabouts is "here"? -- Smjg 10:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oops... Belgium Lvr 15:56, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unihoc is nowadays more known as Unihockey in german speaking countries which is similar to Floorball. And this is played with a Ball which is like a T-Ball known from Baseball.

Why is there no mention of the similar sport La Cross?

Lacrosse has similarities to hockey but is a completely different sport with different antecedents. Hockey did not come from lacrosse, nor vice versa. Eron 19:13, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lacrosse was an influence on hockey, but it didn't evolve directly from it. Ice hockey was never just field hockey on ice, either, it had different rules from day one. At least as far as there is evidence. Who knows what the reality is? The First Nations people could, possibly, have played lacrosse on ice and there would be no record of it. We have to go by the evidence, and that suggests that Lacross was at least an influence on the ice version of the game. Biff Loman 13:01, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And that is mentioned, in the history section of the Ice hockey article. As this is a general article on all the sports that fall under the rubric 'hockey', I'm not sure lacrosse needs to be discussed here. Eron 13:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I guess if you don't want to talk about it here, you really shouldn't be making up a bunch of crap about how hockey didn't come from lacrosse. Then others wouldn't have to set you straight. Biff Loman 01:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to talk about it here, on the talk page. I just don't think that lacrosse's influence on ice hockey needs to be discussed in the generic hockey article, when it is already discussed in the ice hockey article. And please refrain from making personal attacks, thanks. Eron 01:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ice hockey origin claim

I removed the statement "yet many demand that the first true game of ice hockey was played at [[St. Paul's School (Concord, New Hampshire) on Turkey Pond." Is there a citation, source, or reference for this claim, as compared to the claims of other 'birthplaces' of hockey? Eron 02:32, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History of ice hockey

What is said here about the history of ice hockey isn't consistent with what's said on the ice hockey page. Neither is well referenced. Can anyone with access to scholarly work on this sort it out? seglea 19:16, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ordering of codes

Please don't let this degenerate into nationalistic/regionalistic/hockeyistic feuds, but I think ice hockey should be listed above field hockey for two reasons. First, a vast majority of native English speakers (U.S. + Canada = ~330 million, UK + Ireland + Australia + NZ = ~90 million) will refer to "ice hockey" simply as "hockey". Yes, I know this encyclopedia is not limited to native English speakers, but cent(er/re)s of popularity of each code in other regions will offset each other. (That is, this is not like "football", where there is little popularity for codes other than soccer outside the Anglosphere, and the association code should deservedly be listed first.) Second, if you look in the history, the article originally redirected to ice hockey, and when ordering is in doubt one should go by the original contributor's intentions. I'm not so foolhardy as to change the order unilaterally, so please discuss. Just keep it civil. Starry Eyes 01:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't care about the order. But I think you're wrong when you say a vast majority of native English speakers. In Australia, UK, NZ, RSA,... "Hockey" is "Field hockey", just because field hockey is far more popular than ice hockey. The code behaind "hockey" depends of the geographical region more than of the language used in this region. Lvr 10:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Plus add in those in India and Pakistan, and the European countries where (field) hockey is strong, and english is commonly a second language, I wouldn't be so sure that a random person searching in English wikipedia for articles on "hockey" would expect it to come up with (ice) hockey as the primary usage of the word (or that "centres of popularity of each code in other regions would offset each other"). David Underdown 10:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So if India and Pakistan are added, why not Latvia and Russia, where "hockey" (or its variant, say, "hokkej") refers only to ice hockey? Why not Finland, Czech Republic, Sweden and Slovakia, where an English conversation about "hockey" is sure to be about the game played on ice, even if "ice hockey" (or its variants) were the official term? With all that non-POV being said, COME ON! The game played on ice was called hockey and when some retards start playing it on grass, they steal the name and call the original "ice hockey". How about I start playing football on ice and just decide that it's "football" to me and call the original one "grass football"? 212.182.207.100 10:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I thought consensus had already been reached, and it was alphabetized... Field, Ice, Rink. silly me. --D-Rock (commune with D-Rock), (hockey fan) 19:14, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A "girls sport"?

It says "Field hockey is popular among both sexes in many countries of the world, particularly in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and South Asia, though in the United States and Canada it is considered a girls' sport." Now granted I'm not much of a hockey buff, but I've never personally heard that. When I was a kid I used to play that with my friends quite a bit since ice rinks aren't easily available. There never seemed to be any shame or girliness associated with that. Cereal box conspiracy 15:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've always considered it to be a girls' sport.. --SodiumBenzoate 21:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's considered a girls' sport in the UK as well. Reason being there's a dominant winter sport (soccer) which girls tend not to play, so they play hockey instead. Same reason soccer tends to be associated with girls in the U.S. - there's a winter sport girls don't usually play, American football / ice hockey. So they play soccer / hockey instead. That might be more encyclopedic than just saying it's a girls' sport, because that just sounds like a macho endorsement of ice hockey. The way Brits might call baseball a girls' sport (rounders) when they compare it to cricket. Beyond school these distinctions tend not to apply. Hakluyt bean 16:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NCAA only sponsors field hockey for women [1]. Search through random US high school athletic conferences and you'll find the same results. But yes, there should be better phrasing than "girls' sport". ccwaters 17:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some in the UK might consider it a girl's sport, partly becasue of the "jolly hockey sticks" image and St Trinian's, however, the fact remains that actually participation rates are pretty equal at club level (possibly even more men play, can't remember the figures on numbers of teams at the moment), which simply isn't the case in the States, where it is played almost entirely in high schools and colleges by girls. There's a tiny number of clubs in the US, most people never play after college I believe. Boy's participation raes are also kept down by the fact some areas insist that they wear the same kit as the girls, even calling it a kilt doesn't change the fact it looks like a skirt, which is a fairly major obstacle for teenaged boys... Girls' and young women's sport might I suppose be more accurate. David Underdown 08:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am currently at a school, i know many other schools that have more boys playing the sport then girls. I also play for a club, which has more boys paticipating thatn girls, and there are also more mens teams then womens. I can see that hockey used to be classified as a girls sport, but i feel it is now more mixed. Moneal04 21:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)Neal Monk — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moneal04 (talk • contribs) [reply]

I cant stand having sports only for females when they still complain about how they are discriminated and kept seperate from boys sports. Girls can play with boys in; Hockey until they become a certain age in which they choose if they wish to stay with the hitting boys or switch to the none hitting girls team. Boys do not have the option of hitting or not, or have a say in whether or not girls are on there team. So in my opinon we should finalize the question of girls strength and abilities vs boys and see if they can really skate with us or not. We must also create the option of all boys and all girls teams.

What a load of rubbish how in today's society can you say 'girls' sport thats like saying football is a boy's sport when its is obviously not, yes prodomintally men play it, but alot of women play it too! Jezzyjez 07:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Naming convention

The article has: "The dominant version of hockey in a particular region tends to be known simply as hockey"

Isn't that a bit misleading?

Hockey ('field hockey'): International Hockey Federation

6 out of 116 countries use 'Field Hockey' - Azerbaijan, Latvia, Moldova, Romania, American Samoa, Canada, U.S.

Ice hockey: List of members of the International Ice Hockey Federation

Out of 60+ countries looks like(?) only in the U.S and Canada is it known simply as 'hockey'

Olympics http://www.olympic.org/

As far as they're concerned the sports are 'hockey' and 'ice hockey'.

Hakluyt bean 16:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I cant stand having sports only for females when they still complain about how they are discriminated and kept seperate from boys sports. Girls can play with boys in; Hockey until they become a certain age in which they choose if they wish to stay with the hitting boys or switch to the none hitting girls team. Boys do not have the option of hitting or not, or have a say in whether or not girls are on there team. So in my opinon we should finalize the question of girls strength and abilities vs boys and see if they can really skate with us or not. We must also create the option of all boys and all girls teams.

The article has: "The dominant version of hockey in a particular region tends to be known simply as hockey"

Isn't that a bit misleading?

No, it's an accurate statement, and doesn't make any claim about the number of countries in which either form is dominant. If you come to North America, "ice hockey" is known simply as hockey (National Hockey League, American Hockey League, East Coast Hockey League, Hockey Canada, USA Hockey, etc., etc.). To call the sport "ice hockey" here would be redundant, though people would know what you are talking about. If you want to talk about field hockey, you need to call it "field hockey." If you use the word "hockey" here to refer to field hockey, now that would be misleading.

North America is roughly 350 million people, and has the majority of native English speakers in the world. Since this is the English language Wikipedia, we should go with the terminology that the majority of native English speakers use to refer to these sports. Namely "hockey" (meaning "ice hockey") and "field hockey" for the other form.140.251.125.50 15:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)Matt[reply]

Ringette ... variant?

The sport was originally developed for girls, but I don't think it was developed to be an alternative for hockey. Girls, I'm sure, could play hockey back then, because back then most likely both levels (ringette and girls hockey) were at the same level. The term variant, I don't think, fits it very well. If someone could cite an official source stating that it is (or was) supposed to be an alternate to ice hockey, then I'll be okay. Til then, I think that should be rephrased somehow. Perhaps make a list that lists sports that are similar to hockey, but are not variants or alternates. Disinclination 09:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a quote from the Ontario Ringette Association

"The Sport of Ringette was developed in 1963 in North Bay, Ontario, by the late Mr. Sam Jacks. Originally designed to be a unique winter team sport for girls and an alternative to hockey, Ringette has evolved into a fast paced, exciting sport that combines the speed of hockey with the strategy of basketball. The first game played in Espanola, Ontario, was nothing like the sport of today" Felix the cat29 23:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

I find the picture [2] of the (field) hockey players not very resambling with the sport... it looks very slow on that picture... the picture used on the Dutch page [3] looks much more like the Hockey sport is like.

Wouldn't this be a better picture for this article?

The second picture would be better, but let's face it - the game is pretty slow, which is why it's runner-up to real hockey. 67.71.140.234 11:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rink hockey - Hardball hockey - Hoquei em Patins

I've edited this to cut the name down to just Rink hockey, which is the name of the main Wikipedia article. It seemed a bit much to include the common name, a variant name (Hardball hockey), and a non-English name. I've also request a citation on the "one of the three most popular hockey variants" claim. While the global popularity of the ice and field versions is self-evident to me, I'm not so sure about a claim ranking any other variant as number three on the list without further evidence (e.g. number of active countries, etc.) Eron 01:13, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your regarding the popularity- but I also need to add, ""Rink hockey - Hardball hockey - Hoquei em Patins"" are all the same sport called different names all over the world- all are commonly referred to as Roller_hockey. The name roller hockey was used before the invent of inlines -Hardballhock

layout for images idea

I centered the images because any time someone added some text or another piece the /right/ wouldn't keep things tight. The images would sort of bleed over into other parts. If you can find a better way to keep images with their parts than using Center which I did (wince) give the layout a shot. --Hardballhock 03:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

added "Origins" section

I'm a sports historian, and I thought a sport as important as hockey needs some description of its origins.Kozushi

hockey

i think that hockey should be played with only four players, that way, there would be more room and creativity on the ice. [nhlray8338]

I dont see how that would work, surely it takes more skill and creativity to coordinate more players then less?? Jezzyjez 16:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ice hockey puck

Call me crazy but I don't think it's necessary to tell people twice that a puck is made from vulcanized rubber. Maybe I am crazy and there's a good reason, but I can't see it. :-) As a Canadian I am ashamed to admit I did not know that they froze the puck to keep it from bouncing. Joe Dick 20:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

== Disambig and Name ==

Hello there,

As I'm working on the wikiproject sports I would like to restart the discussion on botbh the function of this page and the naming convention. 1) This page should be nothing more than a disambiguation page. It distincts between different kind of sports that (partly) share/are known by the same name. There is no reason to include other information here. 2) I propose throught the project that we use the olympic naming convention on sports. And that American predominance in namegiving is not applied. Therefore; Field hockey should be called hockey and ice hockey should be given that name. See above for some reasons. Discussion is invited, as is participation in the wikiproject.Thanks -Catneven 08:23, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of Field Hockey

According to Official website of Olympic movement, records exist of hockey having been played in Persia in 2000 BC. I don't know how valid are the citations that refer the origin of this game to Egypt. I think the citation from the olympics website is more resonable as this game was and is strongly played in Pakistan and India which are closer to (and even part of) big old persian empire. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.251.85.42 (talk) 21:43, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

@@ Line 141: / Line 141: @@
 I cant stand having sports only for females when they still complain about how they are discriminated and kept seperate from boys sports.  Girls can play with boys in; Hockey until they become a certain age in which they choose if they wish to stay with the hitting boys or switch to the none hitting girls team.  Boys do not have the option of hitting or not, or have a say in whether or not girls are on there team.  So in my opinon we should finalize the question of girls strength and abilities vs boys and see if they can really skate with us or not.  We must also create the option of all boys and all girls teams.
+:''The article has: "The dominant version of hockey in a particular region tends to be known simply as hockey"
+:Isn't that a bit misleading?''
+:No, it's an accurate statement, and doesn't make any claim about the number of countries in which either form is dominant.  If you come to North America, "ice hockey" is known simply as hockey (National Hockey League, American Hockey League, East Coast Hockey League, Hockey Canada, USA Hockey, etc., etc.).  To call the sport "ice hockey" here would be redundant, though people would know what you are talking about.  If you want to talk about field hockey, you need to call it "field hockey."  If you use the word "hockey" here to refer to field hockey, now that would be misleading.
+:North America is roughly 350 million people, and has the majority of native English speakers in the world.  Since this is the ''English language'' Wikipedia, we should go with the terminology that the majority of native English speakers use to refer to these sports.  Namely "hockey" (meaning "ice hockey") and "field hockey" for the other form.[[User:140.251.125.50|140.251.125.50]] 15:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)Matt
 == Ringette ... variant? ==