Talk:List of House characters

"Of all the members of House's staff, Cameron is the most empathetic almost to the point that it impairs her ability to be a good doctor."

I would argue (but I'm not going to change it, since I understand this is not really a consensus) that the "almost" does not belong, for many reasons...chiefly, the first episode of season two when she deprives a patient who has cancer of a week of what little time of her life she has left by refusing to admit that it is, indeed, cancer. >.> Vignettelante

Merge suggestion

It has been suggested that the articles on the individual characters of the series are merged into this one as they would not comply to the fiction notability guideline WP:FICT. Any thoughts? --Van helsing 09:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Van Helsing, TTN, all you lot - quit it. You've been shot down every time you suggest a merge, this one will be no different. The characters are notable, and the information is relevant. I believe I saw someone say this to go against you on the Talk:Scrubs (TV series) page - you want all information to be out-of-universe? Then by your own logic, the article about elephant shouldn't be written by anyone on Earth. It's a hyperbole admittedly, but you cannot deny that this is your argument. It is flawed.' Thanks to whoever said that originally. mattbuck 09:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you noticed that I didn’t express an opinion on it? I altered what I consider to be a too bold action (plainly redirecting the individual articles) into a less bold one. --Van helsing 09:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Blame me, not VH and quoting about the most spurious argument I think I have ever seen is not helping the issue here. The guideline is clear and unequivocal: out of universe notability must be asserted for individual articles about fictional characters. The same is true for episode articles but we'll get to those later. As a result, interested editors need to introduce content that establishes notability, backed up by reliable, third party sources. Otherwise, the character pages should be merged per the consistent application of policy. Eusebeus 16:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Merging the suggested characters is ridiculous; they are as notable as can be and there is more than enough to fill an article about them - though I concede that at the moment they are all too long and need to be trimmed down. I say a very strong 'no' to the merging. asyndeton 17:26, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

• I am very sorry asyndeton but beyond your plaintive and emphatic WP:ILIKEIT, masquerading as :notable as can be", can you please point out, with specific examples, where in the WP:WAF and WP:FICT guidelines there is anything that suggests this is actually notable? As I see it, per those guidelines these need all to be merged unless interested editors (like yourself, maybe) can add Out of Universe assertions of notability backed up by reliable, third party sources. Eusebeus 19:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

• I should point out that at the top of that WP:ILIKEIT you linked to is this:(link removed - matt's point is it is an essay)

Now, the information contained in the articles is most certainly verifiable, and is all well sourced. It seems like you're trying to delete it as WP:IDONTLIKEIT. mattbuck 19:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

• Unsure what your point is in noting the ilikeit essay. You seem to be confused about the criteria. Have you read the guidelines? I will paste the WAF below, so please indicate how you intend to rewrite these character articles to satisfy the WAF and FICT guidelines. Eusebeus 21:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

How would this information be improved by including it on this page over the status quo? Atropos 00:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep: Why would someone merge the main characters of a related TV-series into another article that possibly can only contain the very minor characters of that specific TV-series, i say a strong no, by merging the maincharacters into another article where they possibly can loose some of there importance. --Rutherfordjigsaw 05:15, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep The character is notable enough to have its own article. mirageinred 16:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep I agree with the user above me. Each regular character possesses unique characteristics and is prominent enough to warrant their own article. Besides, cramming every thing onto one page will be a shambolic affair. I'm completely against merging. Kiki 17:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• Please note that this is not a vote. Individual discussions cannot trump larger and long-standing community consensus, which is variously described in the Wikipedia guidelines. I urge interested editors to review WP:FICT and WP:WAF and add the necessary content needed to let these articles remain; that means the assertion of out-of-universe notability backed up by reliable third party sources. I understand that fans of the series feel that individual characters deserve lengthy and detailed articles, but wider consensus explicitly dictates that such content is inappropriate and recommends, instead, a merge to a single article. Eusebeus 18:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• It seems to me that consensus on every series you propose this for is that they should remain separate articles, and thus it would seem that wider consensus is that characters deserve individual articles. mattbuck 18:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• Individual series pages generally attract the attention of fans of the series; as a result it is not surprising that different fan bases express support to keep these pages, in spite of the wider consensus. Do not conflate, however, the expression of fan support with wider notability. If you wish, take up the issue at WP:FICT and WP:WAF to make your case that the existing requirements of sources and general out-of universe notability should not apply. Absent that wider solicitation, your argument is tendentious. Eusebeus 18:44, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• Merge Not because the charactes are not notable, but because there are not enough characters like Scrubs, or Friends, or Seinfeld. The characters can be done just like they have been in the Mash or 3rd Rock from the Sun articles. When the list of characters have increased like some of the more established Sitcoms, then it would be a good idea to break it off. But for now, I think a Merge is a good idea. --Maniwar (talk) 16:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The House character is notable, I'm not sure if the others are. Curmudgeon became word of the year because of increased usage when applied to him. 69.140.94.185 02:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

How about this for a suggestion? Each character could have their own page as a bio for each notable character would be helpful to people researching the show, but once there is House (TV series), List of House characters, and individual bios there will be a lot of redundant information. You could easily skip the middleman and just have House (TV Series) and then link each character's name to the bio. Think list of characters page would quickly become redundant to the list on the main page and the information on the individual pages. --In Defense of the Artist 12:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

The list has several other characters on - I'd agree with your suggestion, but alter the list to be MINOR characters only, as is done for Scrubs (TV show). mattbuck 12:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• The protocol is pretty clear here. Any character for which there exists the assertion of out-of-universe notability backed up by reliable third party sources should have its own article. All others, major or minor, should be redirected to a central list of characters page. As for the Scrubs (TV show) characters, they will be redirected according to the same guideline.

  Let me make a point here, since there seems to be some confusion. Per the consensus policy, When consensus is referred to in Wikipedia discussion, it always means 'within the framework of established policy and practice'. Even a majority of a limited group of editors will almost never outweigh community consensus on a wider scale, as documented within policies.

  Thus, if editors disagree with the principles being adduced for establishing fictional character notability, this is not the place to raise those issues. Instead, I urge interested editors to make their point at the WP:FICT and WP:WAF guideline. The merge and redirect is a matter of applying community wide consensus to this particular series. If you disagree, you need to change that community wide consensus, not simply indicate your opposition here, since - and this is the point that some editors are apparently unaware of - the consensus to redirect already exists per that community-wide guideline. Eusebeus 13:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Just came across this odd debate. I am always wary when people continually quote policy at me. How does maintaining this separate character page harm Wikipedia? Separate major fictional character pages add an interesting and useful encyclopedic dimension to Wikipedia. --- Taroaldo 17:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Homer Simpson has a page, why not House? -Flubeca^Talk 14:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Real world perspective

Articles about fiction, like all Wikipedia articles, must be written with the real world as their primary frame of reference. The approach is to describe the subject matter from the perspective of the real world, in which the work of fiction and its publication are embedded. It necessitates the use of both primary and secondary information.

Exemplary aspects of real world perspective include:

• careful differentiation between the work of fiction itself and aspects of its production process and publication, such as the impact a work of fiction has had in the real world (see also below)
• the presentation of fictional material
  • particularly for film and TV related topics, this may include cinematographical aspects
  • for literature, this may include writing style and literary technique
• description of fictional characters, places and devices as objects of the narrative
• making (referenced!) mention of the author's intention

See below for a list of exemplary articles which employ a consistent real world perspective.

The problem with in-universe perspective

The in-universe perspective describes the fiction from the perspective of characters within the fictional universe, treating it as if it were real. Many fan wikis and fan websites (see below) take this approach, but it should not be used for Wikipedia articles. An in-universe perspective is inaccurate and misleading, gives undue weight to unimportant information and invites unverifiable original research. See also the sections on fair use, notability and undue weight, and templates.

Problems associated with an in-universe perspective include:

• Disregarding all or most aspects of a work of fiction as a creative endeavour.
• A plot synopsis written like an historical account.
• A fictional character article or section written like a biography.
• Description of fictional places written like a geographical account.
• Using infoboxes intended for real world topics.
• Discussing a fictional topic's appearances in major works and obscure spin-off material in equal detail.
• Using throwaway comments or jokes as a source of information.
• Trying to reconcile contradictions or fill gaps in a fictional continuity, rather than reporting them as such.
• Placing spiritual successors in the same continuity as the works that inspired them.

Jennifer Morrison image

Here is a possibility for a picture to be used for the Jennifer Morrison's image.

The image is used on the "Allison Cameron (House)" page:

Location: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Cameron

The image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/Cameron.a.jpg/250px-Cameron.a.jpg

Greg Gates

Lake Oswego, Oregon —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ringdesigner (talk • contribs) 02:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Not a good idea - it wouldn't be fair use to illustrate Jannifer Morrison - it's a copyrighted House promotional picture, so fair use only extends to critical analysis in House articles. mattbuck 10:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Other Characters?

Don't any of Wilson's exes, or Foreman's mother, etc, get mention? Dylan 23:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)