Talk:Mining of Ceres

This article was nominated for deletion on 12/9/2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

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As this article was obviously created in an attempt to highlight potential loopholes in the Wikipedia reliable sources ruleset I'm a little reluctant to suggest that it's failed. Bravo on trying to cheat the system into lending both bandwidth and credence to conspicuous cabbagery, and great work on the flagrantly redundant replication of information from the main article on Ceres, however it may be prudent, in subsequent attempts at perversion, to actually identify a loophole first before trying to ram the joke home so vigourously. Hitting the 'no personal homepages as a source' rule square on the nose might embody a spirit of ebullient anarchy, but it's also liable to trip the alarm system. Good luck in future endevours to subvert the system, and long may this and other such ejaculations fly under the radar of the enabled here at Wikipedia. ◄ИΞШSΜΛЯΞ► 23:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• Disagree. It seems a good and interesting article, although with little information. Good enough. Since a kid I read this kind of ideas in astronomy books, and I don't get it why you think it is not encyclopediac. -Pedro 11:54, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
• Speaking for myself, I'm not entirely sure why any attempt to subvert any part of Wikipedia should be cause for congratulation. It's not proving anything, since it's a given that any system can be corrupted by those with sufficient desire to see it fail. In other words, there is nothing clever in doing so. I'm sure Wikipedians have a sense of humour, in general - but even so, this is an encyclopedia. See a joke article, laugh about it by all means, then delete it. There is a clear difference between those who highlight failings in a system out of a genuine desire to drive its improvement, and those who simply derive pleasure from seeing or contributing to the disruption of the system. The former can be tolerated as they help to develop the system. But there is no reason to indulge or excuse the selfish motives of the latter. - Adaru 01:34, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Other than a sense of humor or irony. This poster's sarcasm detector is broken. -Anymouse

Rebuttal of Difficulties

Citation is heavily needed for this article. Shouldn't Ceres be moving with relation to other asteroids in the belt? Nintenfreak 18:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

This is unverified original research

Has the colonization of Ceres been explored at any length by any reputable, peer-reviewed publisher? The page sourced as the "[proposal]" of 1 Ceres is a self-published source. Dave Boll (to whose page detailing his plan to colonize Ceres), is nowhere mentioned as an astronomer, as an astrophysicist, as a government worker, etc. His page has not been submitted to a peer-reviewed journal. His article is an original, novel synthesis of thoughts without any regard for science. Thus the whole basis of this article is likewise, is an unverified colonization plan.

Unless this article provides verifiable, peer-reviewed colonization research, I plan to nominate it for deletion. This is not a personal attack; I am noting a violation of of two Wikipedia policies: verifiability and no original research.

I think this article is interesting. I found it because of my interest in the solar system. Good luck. I would love to see this article improved, but I will otherwise be a strong advocate for deletion.

Note: I am unable to edit this article myself because of foregoing commitments.

--Iamunknown 02:55, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I've added a link to a good relevant research.--Nixer 10:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't see anything in this stub that can be classified as original research. There are obviously no serious colonization plans; those are just ideas, which astronomers have while writing a book. We can't even go to the moon, our neighbour; colonizing Ceres, for the time being, are just thoughts... I think we should also have article stating how people in late 19th century, or other decades, imagined these worlds, for instance, the tropical Venus theory. It would help when one wants to write history or introductions about the subject. --Pedro 11:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

This is original research and the article should be deleted. Gnixon 17:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

You are all invited to discuss this on this article's AfD page. Awolf002 18:13, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Why not just merge this page with the main article on Ceres, under a heading like "potential for colonization"? 206.21.141.61 (talk) 04:41, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Speculation

If we are to have speculation on what areas are to be colonized before Ceres then there's no sense in giving Mars special treatment since nothing has been decided in that area yet. Since the Moon, Venus and Mars are all easier targets than Venus I suggest we either include them all, or leave them all out. For those that doubt the delta-v claim, here it is (pdf). Earth to Ceres = 1.29 years. Venus to Ceres = 1.15 years. The faster rotation makes travel to Ceres easier, as well as the greater number of launch windows. I would prefer all speculation be removed, but if we are to include Mars we will need to include the Moon and Venus as well. Mithridates 19:53, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Ceres definitely an easier target than Venus.--Nixer 20:06, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Please take it up with Geoffrey A. Landis then. He's part of the team that designed the rovers currently running on Mars and he doesn't agree with you. Mithridates 20:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
PS - it's not the surface of Venus that's being proposed as a location. Mithridates 20:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I know this paper. Colonising Venus' clouds will not help colonizing Ceres anyway. It is not required to colonize Ceres.--Nixer 20:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Colonizing Mars is not required before colonizing Ceres, but is preferred in the studies I've seen (there is one by Robert Zubrin, for example). It is much easier to get to Ceres from Mars than it is to get to Ceres from Earth, so if you have a large colony on Mars, you can use it to support operations on Ceres. This assumes that Mars is colonized before the asteroids, and you could go direct to Ceres with high-impulse. Hence the 'possibly'. Re. Landis and the colonization of Venus, I have also read the paper. I'm not sure if I trust his results. That, however, is strictly personal and is not to be included on Wikipedia.Michaelbusch 21:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it's preferable to have Mars colonized before Ceres, but since we're speculating here (such as with high impulse instead of making use of rotational speed of a planet) I see no reason to make the cloudtops of Venus the only exception. I think we're all in agreement that Ceres won't be the first place where colonization will happen so if we are to speculate we might as well include all areas that have been proposed by people with serious qualifications such as Landis et al.Mithridates 21:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Most researches on Mars and Ceres colonizations (i.e. for example, Zubrin) imply Ceres will probably serve a colony on Mars. Since that I cannot say it is speculation. Landis do not say a colony on Venus should necessary precede the colonization of asteroids.--Nixer 06:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Water Content

The main article on Ceres says that "A study led by Peter Thomas of Cornell University suggests that Ceres has a differentiated interior: observations coupled with computer models suggest the presence of a rocky core overlain with an icy mantle. This mantle of thickness from 120 to 60 km could contain 200 million cubic kilometres of water, which is more than the amount of fresh water on the Earth.[19][2]"

And yet this article notes that the water content is only 1/10th of Earth's. Which is it? JinnKai 00:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a difference between total fresh water and total water on Earth. Ceres may have more fresh water than Earth does, but that is still only about 10% of all of Earth's water (which is mostly salt water, not fresh)Cromdog 20:29, 19 April 2007 (UTC)