Talk:Handlebars (song)

I started this article. It is going to become huge, I can tell, as I created it right as the song was gaining nationwide notability. Come on everyone, lets get this article up to Featured Article status ASAP !!!JeanLatore (talk) 01:33, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Platypus

Platypus was the name of their first album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jailerdaemon (talk • contribs) 02:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is. But how is that relevant to this article? Rau's Speak Page 18:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Someone was removing the music video section due to its platypus reference. Jailerdaemon (talk) 22:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

No, it was removed because of the lack of a source, the platypus just went with everything else. Rau's Speak Page 23:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Meaning

The meaning of the song uses direct quotes from the beginning and ending of the song. It is sourced. Please explain its continual removal or replacement. Rau's Speak Page 21:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I think everyone is misinterpreting the song completely. The song is not about any one person in particular, it is about everyone. This song is about a childlike innocence, the "look what I can do!". It is about John Q Public and how as he grows up, he realizes that he has the power to do things. Sadly, most men with power tend to abuse that power and the song goes on to follow that little boy growing and becoming a man and shouting "Look what I can do now" while using his great power to bring about the end of the world. It is about how we all have the propensity to be either good or evil. Seanmeadows (talk • contribs) 15:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

While I do not disagree with you, that is OR, which is what this entire thing is about. Rau's Speak Page 18:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Right, as soon as you try to divine the meaning of the song and put your opinion in the article, then you've begun telling us about you, not the song. That's not what Wikipedia is for.Elsendero (talk) 21:08, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Citations

You cannot cite the "meaning" of the song by referencing the song itself. Any citations sir need to be from secondary sources, and reliable ones at that. Plz. keep in mind even if you claim to have "heard" those lyrics in the song itself, your repeating/communicating the lyrics is a form of original research as well in that you are merely communicating what you think you heard. Each word, nay each verbal sound, you "hear" whilst listening to the song (or even reading the printed lyrics) is processed in your brain before being passed on, thus subjecting it to your own personal biases, experiences, interpretations, and inherent biases. See Hobbes or Jacques Rousseau on language if you want to know more about that. JeanLatore (talk) 00:50, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

We can use primary sources. This is directly quoted from WP:ORIGINAL:

• only make descriptive claims about the information found in the primary source, the accuracy and applicability of which is easily verifiable by any reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge, and
• make no analytic, synthetic, interpretive, explanatory, or evaluative claims about the information found in the primary source.

What part of that did I violate by citing the song itself? Rau's Speak Page 01:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I still want to know how I continually add OR. Rau's Speak Page 18:10, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Protection

I believe that protection is going a bit too far. Plus, in no way will we endorse the current version. JeanLatore (talk) 19:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Who is we? It's you and a bunch of ip's. And protection will allow us to focus on resolving our debate rather than just continually reverting each other. Also, be glad they did not report us. Rau's Speak Page 19:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

But the IPs are people too. most of the constructive edits come from IPs actually. Like little things, things that will make this article grow into FA. There is no consensus for your version. its just you. JeanLatore (talk) 19:22, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no consensus for your version either. Mine has a source. Yours does not. Mine contains verifiable claims. Yours does not. And the ip's were not adding constructive edits. all information needs to be sourced to make it to FA, the continual addition of unsourced material is unconstructive, and will actually prevent this article from reaching FA. Also I tried to establish consensus above, but you never replied back. Rau's Speak Page 19:29, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, what was that bit about "in the last 24 hours I believe he has made 5 or 6 reverts to the article". I checked the history of the page, I have made two reverts. Sometimes, even simple things like edit histories need to be verified. Rau's Speak Page 22:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. [1] [2] JeanLatore and the anonymous IP user, stop filling Wikipedia with nonsense. Consensus is determined by reasonable discourse, not majority support. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 22:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

This is the true and correct version so far that has consensus

The song is about George W. Bush and saying the people of the United States has elected a leader of little intelligence, and that they have given him enough power to start a nuclear war that would leave many dead. The song begins describing Bush as being so child like in sense as to compare his intellect with only being able to do simple acts as that of riding a bicycle with out the use of its handlebars, but by the end it also indicates that he has the power to execute the act of ending the planet in a holocaust through the use of nuclear weaponry.

The song references many modern technologies, including seeing someone's face "on the telephone;" an example of this technology being an iPhone, and the advances in modern science: "I can split the atom of a molecule." The narrator of the song is a youth of the modern generation, with the line "Look at me, look at me" embodying the narcissism of the younger generation spurred on by the power of modern technology. Global affairs can also be controlled by the narrator, who discusses killing millions "by assassination."The song starts out as the narrator, a young Hispanic male of about 4 to 10 years of age, brags about riding a bike with no handlebars. The bar handles theme becomes rote into this song, providing the chorus, and most likely inspired the title of this piece, which is "handle bars."

Soon this child, playing basketball, learns that he is a platypus (the duckbill platypus theme is found throughout the corpus of Flobots), can discourse about Viking Adventurer Leif Ericson, and can tie a knot in a cherry stem. Later accomplishments in the arts (keeping time with no metronome), business (boasting of marketing prowess), and technology (building an extremely fuel efficient engine) follow this young man, who is now a light skinned black boy. This symbolizes the band's ethos that one must be white to be considered successful in the contemporary Western World.

All is going well with this young man, as the masses that flock to listen to his song and buy his wonderful products are shot down in China and Africa, demonstrated graphically by video montages with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer. This young man, now inexplicably a black female adolescent with straight hair, gains political power, imprisons her enemies (presumably the white race that so successfully manipulated economic markets at the expense of the self-esteem and political aspirations of former minorities), cancels distribution of world wide vaccinations, and eventually presses a large red button that signifies the end of the world.

Later the characsters are riding bikes with no handlebars again, and the process repeats infinitely.

Another Interpretation of this song is that it is stating that just because we can do something doesn't mean that we should. This meaning does support the theory that the song is aimed towards George W. Bush but also shows that it could be any of us who make this terrible decision if we don't watch what it is we are doing and learn from our mistakes.

Structure The song begins and ends with the title lyric: "I can ride my bike with no handlebars." In between, the narrator shows increasing degrees of local, scientific, global, and political power over his surroundings until the eventual apocalypse at the conclusion of the song. The song is done in the post modern "slash & burn" hip hop style associated with Rage Against the Machine, with a horn element taken directly from Cake.

• Lets discuss this like gentlemen, shall we. JeanLatore (talk) 00:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• That is a load of OR. Also, that does not have consensus, if so, show me the discussion that established a consensus for that. Also, we have been discussing this like gentlemen. Rau's Speak Page 01:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• No consensus, sources needed, clean up grammar Jailerdaemon (talk) 03:05, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• JeanLatore, I propose you give it another try. Submit it here again, but simplify a bit, with the interpretations removed (e.g. the Bush stuff) - that would be the first step to a solution here. Elsendero (talk) 18:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Extra help?

WP:3O or WP:RFC. It may be a good idea to bring in some extra help on this article... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:13, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, as it stands, the two of us will continue to but heads. Rau's Speak Page 03:27, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• Agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jailerdaemon (talk • contribs) 04:36, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

  • I think I shall wait until personally requesting it though, I want to see if we can manage to solve this on our own. I hate wasting the public's time on petty issues. Rau's Speak Page 04:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Update

This is a list of things that need to be updated when the protection is removed.

• Update the Hot Digital Songs to 34. Rau's Speak Page 18:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Why has this been removed?

The following section was removed from the article. Why? I think it is concise and explains the meaning of the lyrics in the song quite well.

The song begins with childish braggadocio, as the singer boasts that he is able to ride a bicycle without holding the handlebars, can tie a knot in a cherry stem, has composed a comic book, and has seen a platypus, "because he can do anything that he wants." Next, the singer boasts of business and technological acumen, offering such skills as designing engines, marketing, and running a business.

Finally, he boasts of great political power, including the power to "lead a nation with a microphone", "hand out a million vaccinations / Or let'em all die in exasperation", to order assassinations, and to end the planet in a holocaust. Despite the apparent arrogance and amorality of these powers, he claims that his goals are pure and noble.

The song is in the genre of indie hip-hop but with a horn element very similar to that of the band Cake.

The one thing I might change is horn to trumpet, since that instrument is what is used in the recording.BassBone (talk) 08:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

It was OR, it did not cite sources. Als, some of it isn't even about the meaning of the song. Rau's Speak Page 10:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)