Talk:Moonsund operation: Difference between revisions

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Title

Moonsund is more commonly used in English than Moonzund, thus I propose moving the page appropriately. Thoughts? Martintg (talk) 01:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Other articles on similar operations have used the Russian transliteration where there is no established English name for the operation; whether there's an English name for the place or not hasn't been relevant. As I doubt there is any tradition of calling this operation by a particular English name, I'd argue to keep 'Moonzund'.Esdrasbarnevelt (talk) 12:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Esdrasbarnevelt. The Soviet historical name is the one which 99% of people will be searching for. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed atrocities

The following comment was removed by a user:

The Russians in particular gained a reputation for not taking prisoners, shooting them out of hand or even torturing captives to death. The fighting on Saaremaa is a grim example , it is not known whether any Germans were taken prisoner at all. For instance, an officer was hung from a nearby road sign, a few Germans who just missed the last evacuation were forced to stand in the icy Baltic sea for hours, then pulled ashore and shot.^[1] Civilians were also brutally murdered.^[2]

I consider this paragraph relevant. While not intending to clear the German forces of their various crimes, it is now generally accepted that Russian forces frequently shot or tortured captured Germans. German excesses are well known and documented, whereas Allied excesses are little known. These examples are mentioned to try to balance the black/white picture. They are documented, and such examples figure in several stories and anecdotes written by German soldiers.

I therefore suggest that this paragraph should be reinstated. Falk74 (talk) 10:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would exercise caution here - why does the paragraph state that russian soldiers "in particular" gained a reputation for brutality? If the German excesses are "well known", why should the Soviet forces be portrayed as having a brutal reputation "in particular"?

Hanging someone from a road sign wasn't exactly excessive by the standards of the Wehrmacht - a sadly common enough war crime. Esdrasbarnevelt (talk) 11:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

^ Halten bis zum letzen Mann..
^ Verbrechen an der Wehrmacht, p.343

[1] Halten bis zum letzen Mann..

[2] Verbrechen an der Wehrmacht, p.343

[1]

[2]

Revision as of 15:15, 15 November 2008 edit Miacek (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users 13,481 edits m moved Talk:Moonzund Landing Operation to Talk:Moonsund Landing Operation: if this area is called MoonSund archipelago, then the operation connected with it has to be called accordinlgy, too. ← Previous edit	Revision as of 10:46, 1 December 2008 edit undo Esdrasbarnevelt (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users 1,361 edits m moved Talk:Moonsund Landing Operation to Talk:Moonzund Landing Operation over redirect: See previous discussion on talk page. Next edit →
(No difference)