Talk:Bhikkhunī

Meltingpot

It seems reasonable imho to keep Sangha, Bhikkhu, Bhikkhuni, Mae ji etc. as separate yet interlinked articles.--Gakuro 08:16, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Distinct Articles

I'd suggest that these (Sangha, Bhikkhu, Bhikkhuni, Mae ji) remain distinct articles. I imagine that several of these articles will grow significantly, since the situation for women monastics is rapidly changing. Deebki 00:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's reasonable to have an article about the status of bhikkhunis in the Theravada countries and Tibet. But, what sort of information do you suggest should be housed in the other such articles? They seem to me like they are all about the same thing. I don't see any major changes occurring with regard to most of the bhikkhuni sangha.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 00:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Nearly all the articles about sangha groups could use development. I should bring this to the Buddhism project. Most are missing info on specific ordination process, levels of ordination, inclusion or exclusion of leity, culturally specific practices of vinaya, roles within the culture, relationships to government and other cultures, etc. Just thinking about the massive sections on a single article (level of ordination, vinaya practice, roles, etc. for every Buddhist tradition) gives me a headache... perhaps as much headache as looking at all the scattered, proliferating articles gives you, Nat. Maybe they could all be categorized together, under something like Buddhist monasticism or even Sangha. What do you think? ----Deebki 10:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

taiwan

I am of the opinion that bhikkhu and bhikkhuni should remain seperate, just as monk and nun are seperate. Further I think we need more info on the bhikkhuni orders in taiwan en south-korea, and on the history of the mahayana and theravada order.Greetings, Sacca 10:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Also a moerge with sangha is not desire-able, the article would become much too long, and people looking for info on bhikkhunis would have to go to too much other info. keep things to the point.Greetings, Sacca 10:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Theravadan Bhikkhuni Sangha in North America

I do not know if this is appropriate for this WP article (or perhaps it has already been integrated in a way that my scanning of this article did not reveal) but so that others may consider whether or not to incorporate the information into this article, I copy here a FeedBurner post from Bhante G's "Bhavana Society":

News: An Historic Meeting of Theravada Bhikkhunis

(Posted: 20 Oct 2007 05:17 PM CDT)

This November will witness an important milestone for Buddhism in the West. For the first time ever, Theravada Buddhist nuns will gather on American soil for a Patimokkha observance. The “Bhikkhuni Patimokkha” is the monastic discipline for fully ordained women in Buddhism; its recitation one of the main gatherings that affirms the presence and harmonious communion of the Buddhist monastic Sangha. In many eyes this event will officially mark the establishment of the Theravadan Bhikkhuni Sangha in North America. Nine bhikkhunis from across the U.S. and Germany will converge at the Carolina Buddhist Vihara, including Ayya Sudinna and Ayya Sobhana from the Bhavana Society. They will will observe Patimokkha privately on November 9, followed on November 11 by the public celebration of Kathina. (This is the robe-offering ceremony at the end of the monastic three-month Rains Retreat. For more information about Kathina at the Carolina Buddhist Vihara, email: dhammasc@hotmail.com). In the run-up to this event, the Bhavana Society will briefly host four bhikkhunis and an anagarika (female trainee). On November 6-7, our two resident nuns will welcome Ayya Tathaaloka, Ayya Poonsirivara and Anagarika Suvijjana.

This information is also posted at http://www.bhavanasociety.org:80/new/an_historic_meeting_of_theravada_bhikkhunis/.

With metta, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 04:00, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Mess

This article seems to be one. A lot of it seems to be propaganda. I've deleted or modified a lot of the worst. It's still very unbalanced, giving masses of arguments on 1 side, & little or nothing on the other.

Factual inacuracy: the number 311 for the rules is only Theravada.

I've deleted the Thailand section, as there's no indication in the material that anyone there is actually a bhikkhuni (or even claims to be). I've also deleted the Mahayana section as it's entirely about Japan, whose clergy are not bhikkhus & bhikkhunis, but receive a bodhisattva ordination instead, & nowadays are mostly married. An exception is the Ritsu school, but that has only a few dozen bhikkhus & bhikkunis (probably outnumbered by foreign ones in the country).

If the article is to be called Bhikkhuni, it really ought to be about that, not about other female religious. For that matter, it should be about Theravada nuns only, since the vastly greater numbers of Mahayana ones don't use the Pali word. So it should cover only the old order up to the 13th century & modern attempts at revival. Peter jackson (talk) 17:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your attention to this article, Peter. I'm not sure whether ordained Buddhist persons in Japan agree that they are not bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, although to me it seems like a useful distinction to make that a person who does not claim to follow the vinaya is not a bhikkhu(ni), even if his or her lifestyle and discipline might merit the English term "monk" or "nun".

There is at least one Thai Theravada bhikkhuni in Thailand, Dhammananda, who was ordained by Sri Lankan bhikkhunis. Her associates have mostly been samaṇerīs, although I think that in the last year or two some of them may have attained full bhikkhuni ordination as well. [update: according to thaibhikkhunis.org, there are six Thai Theravada bhikkhunis, one living in Sri Lanka and the other five living in Thailand]

Also, I generally don't like splitting up articles unnecessarily and it seems unnecessary to exclude Mahayana bhikṣuṇīs. It seems like roughly the same phenomenon, since they all follow similar vinaya.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 01:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

What the hell?

I removed this sentence: (Please edit this as it was Ananda, the Buddha's attendant, who successfully requested women be allowed to join (after Mahapajapati's requests were rejected)

If this is true, the article needs to be edited. If people have comments on what in the article needs to be edited, they need to keep it on the talk page. 66.42.216.226 (talk) 13:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

From the article:

• clarification: The Vinaya recounts the story of six monks who lifted up their robes to show their thighs to the nuns. When the Buddha learned about this, he made an exception to that rule and told the nuns not to pay respect to these monks. A nun, then, does not have to bow to every monk, but only to a monk who is worthy of respect. [6]

I still don't know what to say about this.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.90.182 (talk) 17:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Already here?

this information [1]?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.197.75 (talk) 15:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

and this one [2]? Article by Bhikshuni Thubten Chodron

Austerlitz -- 88.72.27.48 (talk) 06:21, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I've added this statement Statement of His Holiness the Dalai Lama on Bhikshuni Ordination in the Tibetan Tradition to section External Links. Dalai Lama said besides other "But in terms of the modality of introducing Bhikshuni vows within the tradition, we have to remain within the boundaries set by the Vinaya - otherwise, we would have introduced the Bhikshuni vow in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition long time ago."

Austerlitz -- 88.75.215.112 (talk) 11:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Any stories?

"7) A Monk must not be abused or reviled in any way by a nun." Are there any stories referring to that rule?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.200.77 (talk) 16:51, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Humour

• Diemberger, Hildegard (2007): When a Woman Becomes a Religious Dynasty - The Samding Dorje Phagmo of Tibet, Columbia University Press, 2007, ISBN 0231143206, EAN 9780231143202, Extract

What do you think? does it go with the seriosity of wikipedia mentioning that popular song within the text?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.215.149 (talk) 08:23, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Soma Sutta from Discourses of the Ancient Nuns(Bhikkhuni-samyutta)

• http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.002.bodh.html - Soma, Translated from the Pali by Bhikkhu Bodhi
• http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.002.than.html - Sister Soma, Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
• http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.002.olen.html - Mara Meets His Match, Translated from the Pali by Andrew Olendzki

Should be inserted somehow, maybe into section history.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.202.78 (talk) 10:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)