Talk:Confederate States Marine Corps

Max strength was said to be 600. (I wish I knew the source of that factoid...) Trekphiler 00:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

This website has some good information on the CSMC. The only problem is that none of the information has any sources sited. --Avazina 01:25, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Reference added

I've added J. Thomas Sharf, the expert who wrote the history of the Confederate States Navy as a reference, and started noting much of the material, including the statement on manpower. He personally interviewed Beall, and no one has a better source than this incredible history book. Grayghost01 (talk) 05:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Officer list

US Marine Officers who resigned This list is not correct.

1. First Lieutenant Adam N. Baker was from Pennsylvania
2. Brevet Major George H. Terret was a full ranked Major (as many others he held the Brevet-rank fom the Mexican War 1847/48)
3. Captain Robert Tansill quit the C.S.M.C. and changed to the C.S.A. and rose to the rank of a Colonel

I've added Pennsylvania for Baker. Terret was a Brevet Major, like Lee was a Brevel Colonel. Neither was "full ranked". Similarly Brigadier General Custer was a brevet rank, and he reverted after the war. As far as Tansill, he may have ended up in the CS Army, but when first released from prison, according to Sharf, he reported to the CSMC in Richmond. Bear in mind that many folks also served temporary ranks in multiple services. For instance, Captain Raphael Semmes served as a CS Army officer, and other CS Navy officers had some overlapping CS Army service. Perhaps Tansill did this? If you can get the material together, create a Wiki biography on him!! It'd be a great addition for the CSMC. Grayghost01 (talk) 07:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

With Terret you are correct. I don't have any additional material for him. (only 2ndLt: 01st April 1830; 1stLt: 01st July 1834; Capt: 16th March 1847; bvtMaj: 13th September 1847; dismissed: 06th May 1861)

::Tansill was Colonel of the C.S.A. and commanding officer of the 2nd VA Artillery Battalion.

77.117.171.58 (talk) 21:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC) Michi.

Missing Officers who held a commissioned officers rank in the U.S.M.C. (with the date of February 1860)

• a.) U.S.M.C. Officers with the C.S.M.C., but missing in the List >>US Marine Officers who resigned<<
  • aa.) Henry B. Tyler jr.; First Lieutenant (U.S.M.C.); D.C.;
  • ab.) Lucien L. Dawson; Second Lieutenant (U.S.M.C.); Ky.;

• b.) U.S.M.C. Officers dismissed from the C.S.M.C.:
  • ba.) Jabez C. Rich; Captain (U.S.M.C.); Me.; dismissed as Captain (C.S.M.C.)
  • bb.) Charles A. Henderson; First Lieutenant (U.S.M.C.); D.C.; dismissed as First Lieutenant (C.S.M.C.)

• c.) U.S.M.C. Officers not with the C.S.M.C.
  • ca.) Jacob Read; First Lieutenant (U.S.M.C.); Ga.; not with the C.S.M.C.; rose to the rank of a Major in the C.S.A.

::Read was Major of the C.S.A. and commanding officer of the 1st GA Regulars

77.117.171.58 (talk) 21:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC) Michi.

• • cb.) Alexander W. Stark; First Lieutenant (U.S.M.C.); Va.; not with the C.S.M.C.

77.118.14.34 (talk) 14:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC) Regards Michi.

I'll come back to this material and see how it can be incorporated. Perhaps as a separate page of a list of CSMC officers? Grayghost01 (talk) 07:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

CSMC history

The Confederate States Marine Corps (CSMC), a branch of the Confederate States Navy, was established by an act of the Congress of the Confederate States on March 16, 1861. The CSMC's manpower was initially authorized at 45 officers and 944 enlisted men, and was increased on September 24, 1862 to 1026 enlisted men.

In accordance with the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navy in the War of the Rebellion. Washington D.C. 1894 – 1914; 30 Volumes and Index. Series II, Vol 2, pp 45 & 46. the quotation is not correct.

• The C.S.M.C. was founded by an act of the Confederate States on March 12th, 1861. The C.S.M.C.'s manpower was authorized at 21 officers and 600 ranks and files, a Battalion-sized unit with 6 coys.
• On March 16th, 1861 the C.S.M.C.'s manpower was increased by 1 officer and 60 ranks and files.
• On May 20th, 1861 the C.S.M.C.'s strength was augmented to a Regiment-sized unit with 10 coys. The authorized manpower was 46 officers and 944 ranks and files.
• By September 24th, 1862 the C.S.M.C.'s manpower was increased by 82 rank and files (ea 20 Sgt.'s; Cpl.'s; drummers; fifers; and 2 (principal) musicians).

77.116.140.191 (talk) 07:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC);

Regards Michi.

The only problem here is that the Official Records are generally not used for Wiki for the main material in the wiki articles. Secondary historians must be used, and in this case, Sharf's history of the CS Navy, he did extensive research, used the Official Records and other materials, including an interview with either Beall or Beall's wife who was still alive (I forget which one). The Official Records are notorious for inaccuracies which many historians end up correcting. Therefore we'll need to go with Sharf's history, unless we can find some other good books on CSMC history (can you cite some?) According to Sharf, there were no CSMC Battalions or Regiments that ever existed. Of note, the USMC also did not ever have a regiment until after the turn of the century. For a Battalion or Regiment to have existed, they would have needed a LtCol and a Col respectively. There were only one of each of those ranks serving as he Commandant and his assistant to the CSMC, so there were no other LtCol's or Col's to head a Battalion or Regiment. If this is the Official Records stating this, then likely what is happening is that the Official Records are basically saying the CSMC first existed with a LtCol (who normally heads a battalion worth of stuff) and then a Col (who heads a regiment). I.e. that is how the OR should be "interpreted", and it might be somewhat misleading in how it is written. Likely a US Army person edited the material, not realizing the CSMC had no actual battalion or regiment. Also, from an outsider's point of view the CSMC might informally be considered a "regiment" of Marines, using regiment as an informal noun, and not to be taken to mean a formal regimental unit. See if you can find a published history of the CSMC which perhaps clarifies this info, as it is contradicting Sharf's history of the CSMC. Grayghost01 (talk) 07:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Two quotes from original, first-line, primary sources:

..... The organization of the Confederate States Marine Corps is that of a regiment of infantry, .....

Lieutenant-Colonel Terrett, of the Confederate States Marine Corps, with a body of Marines commands Drewry's Bluff, and at Mobile, Wilmington, and the James River parties of naval officers and men command shore batteries.

CONFEDERATE STATES NAVY DEPARTMENT

Richmond, November 5, 1864.

S. R. MALLORY, Secretary of the Navy.

To: The PRESIDENT.

q.e.d. (quod erat demonstrandum)

For my planned article on the C.S.M.C. I have used, use and will use preferably primary sources, and only for some additional aspects on the C.S.M.C. I use secondary sources.

77.117.156.199 (talk) 14:18, 16 December 2008 (UTC); Regards Michi.