Talk:Constitutional militia movement

Smelser

I'm skimming over "Militias at the Millennium: A test of Smelser's theory of collective behavior", Stan C Weeber; Daniel G Rodeheaver, Sociological Quarterly; Spring 2003; 44, 2; Research Library pg. 181. It discerns two strains in the militia movement: "Constitutionalists" and "Christian Identity". He describes the two in detail and categorizes groups, though acknowledging that there is overlap. I think this would be a great reference, and is available though Proquest. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Another god reference appears to be: "A timeline of the racialist movement in the United States: A teaching tool" Paul J Becker, Arthur J Jipson, Rebecca Katz. Journal of Criminal Justice Education. Highland Heights: Fall 2001. Vol. 12, Iss. 2; pg. 427, 29 pgs. It includes the consitutionalist militis movement:

• In an attempt to construct a timeline covering a large period of time, it is inevitable that there will be omissions; therefore, we have focused our attention on three forms of extremist thought and action that have dominated American culture - the American patriot movement (commonly referred to as the constitutional militia movement), the white racial extremist movement and the legislation and institutionalization of white supremacy.
• One historical juncture is the creation of the modern constitutional militia movement. Given the interconnection of the patriot and white racial extremist movement, it is also worth noting that there are selected dates and actions in the timeline below that relate to both the development of the non-racialist sectors of the patriot movement and the white racialist social movement proper. Given the entanglements and intertwining of these two movements, these dates are few but significant to the future trajectory of both movements. One only has to note the influence of the posse comitatus, which was formed in 1969 by Henry Beach and William Potter Gale, as demonstrative of the linkages (for a fuller discussion of the origins and influence of the posse comitatus, see Corcoran 1990).
• We view the initial Second Amendment compromise as a part of an ongoing social process that has protected white racial privilege and has continually manifested itself in different forms throughout American history. The present timeline attempts to demonstrate how, as these institutionalized methods of social control have waxed and waned, they led some citizens to form and join social movements for the advancement of white racialism. The timeline includes the most significant actions and events within the American patriot movement because some current militia organizations and other white patriot groups support white racialism. These groups are not only supportive of the anti-federalist position but appear to be supportive of the belief that the Second Amendment right to bear arms will facilitate the reinstatement of the white race as the primary control of the federal government (Stem 1995; Doughtery 1995; Larissa 1996; Dees and Corcoran 1996; Daniels 1997). An important caveat is in order: We do not contend that all citizens' and constitutional militias are racialist, however, the two movements remain deeply intertwined and appear to be associated. Thus some racialists have formed or joined militias to advance their cause(s).

The timeline itself includes events from all aspects of the militia movement, and is in graphic form so isn't readliy copyable. Nonetheless it couold be a valuable source for the article. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

"Camouflage and conspiracy: The Militia Movement from ruby ridge to Y2K" Mark Pitcavage. The American Behavioral Scientist. Thousand Oaks: Feb 2001. Vol. 44, Iss. 6; pg. 957, 26 pgs. This article doesn't refer to the CMM by name, but it does apper to be focused mainly on that wing of the militia movement:

• The militia movement is a right-wing movement that arose following controversial standoffs in the 1990s. It inherited paramilitary traditions of earlier groups, especially the conspiratorial, antigovernment Posse Comitatus. The militia movement claims that militia groups are sanctioned by law but uncontrolled by government; in fact, they are designed to oppose a tyrannical government. Adherents believe that behind the "tyranny" is a left-wing, globalist conspiracy known as the New World Order The movement's ideology has led some adherents to commit criminal acts, including stockpiling illegal weapons and explosives and plotting to destroy buildings or assassinate public officials, as well as lesser confrontations.
• The militia movement is a loose collection of paramilitary groups that self-identify as "militias" and individuals with strong sympathies for such groups. The immediate origins of the militia movement lie in the aftermath of the tragic standoffs at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992 and Waco, Texas, in 1993, but its antecedents stretch further back in time.
  • The militia movement, however, has been more than simply the latest wave in a long history of right-wing fascination with paramilitaria; it possesses an ideology and an orientation that help to distinguish it from many of its forebears. One of the major reasons for this is that the militia movement is in many ways an offshoot of an older group, the Posse Comitatus. The Posse started around 1970 in Oregon, where it was led by Henry "Mike" Beach, and in California, led by William Potter Gale. Its strongest bases of support were the states of the Pacific Northwest and the Great Plains. Posse activity peaked in the early 1980s as a result of a significant farm crisis that right-wing activists were able to exploit. The Posse, and related groups, developed a worldview that became highly influential in the extreme right by the 1980s. The militia movement to a considerable extent is a product of this worldview.2
• It is out of the dual traditions of the right-wing paramilitary and the Posse ideology that the militia movement emerged. Nowhere can this be seen more clearly than in the 1980s prototype for the movement, the Unorganized Militia of William Potter Gale's Committee of the States. Gale, an Identity adherent, was an important figure in the extreme right, his involvement dating back to the 1950s and the California Rangers. His involvement with the Posse gave him room for his interest in paramilitary activity. Many Posse leaders combined their extreme political ideology with their love of guns and military paraphernalia; perhaps the best known example is Wisconsin Posse leader James Wickstrom, a Vietnam veteran who appointed himself National Director of Counter-Insurgency. In the 1980s, Gale was primarily involved with a group he himself had started, the Committee of the States. Gale appointed himself chief of staff of the Unorganized Militia of the Committee of the States. The purpose of the Militia was to act as an enforcement arm and bodyguard for the Committee of the StateS.4'
• What is significant about Gale's actions is his attempt to find legitimacy in law. Gale appropriated the term unorganized militia from federal law; by so doing, he hoped to link his group to the militia mentioned in the constitution and federal and state law. This claim of legitimacy and authority distinguishes both Gale's group and the subsequent militia movement from other paramilitary groups, including some that even used the term militia (in a more generic sense). Gale himself died while appealing a conviction for threatening public officials. The Committee of the States, as well as its Unorganized Militia, died with him.5
• Ruby Ridge and Waco were obvious catalysts for a resurgence of the patriot movement, but they do not adequately explain it. After all, the extremists of the 1980s had their martyrs, but those incidents failed to mobilize people beyond the core constituencies of the extremist fringe (with the exception of some farmers). In contrast, the resurgence of the 1990s not only mobilized the entire extreme right but, for a time at least, drew people into the movement from the political mainstream. Several factors seem to provide at least a partial explanation. Perhaps most important among these was that by the 1990s, the extreme right had developed an entire media network all its own: videotapes, fax networks, computer bulletin boards, the Internet, toll-free numbers, newsletters, shortwave and satellite radio shows, and more (see Hilliard & Keith, 1999).
• By far the most noticeable aspect of this resurgence was the emergence of an entirely new movement: the militia movement. It is no coincidence that many of the early proponents of the movement had ties to Ruby Ridge or Waco, nor should it come as a surprise that many such figures were also prominent in the patriot media net.
• The second defining issue for the militia movement is the conspiracy issue. Militia groups believe strongly in a wide variety of extreme conspiracy theories, and these theories in turn have an impact on how militia groups respond to external stimuli. The militia movement has accepted most older right-wing conspiracy theories and combined them with new ones to present a more or less coherent-if unconnected to reality-worldview that serves to explain the increasingly grasping nature of government.
• Among the most persistent components of the New World Order conspiracy theories is that there are large numbers of foreign troops-up to three million, in one estimate-either poised to invade the United States or already hidden in the United States. Movement figures such as Eaton, Mark Koernke, and John Trochmann constantly reinforce such notions.
• The conspiracy theories of the militia movement combined with its members' gun-related, antigovernment sentiments to create much of its outlook on government. This outlook is generally overwhelmingly hostile, particularly toward federal law enforcement. Some militia leaders have become well-known for their general hostility toward law enforcement; one example is J. J. Johnson, former spokesperson for the Ohio Unorganized Militia, one of whose more infamous comments occurred when he addressed a meeting in California in 1997.
• The most important factor in halting the growth of the militia movement was a series of arrests, trials, and convictions of various groups of militia members on weapons, explosives, and conspiracy charges, beginning with the 1995 arrest of Ray Lampley and other members of his Oklahoma Constitutional Militia, followed by arrests of members of the Georgia Republic Militia in April, the Viper Militia of Arizona in July, the Washington State Militia later that same month, and the West Virginia Mountaineer Militia in October. With the exception of Lampley, whom some militia activists viewed as dangerous, the militia movement in each case cried "set up." Nevertheless, the arrests had a definite impact on the movement, if nothing else warning members that law enforcement agents were omnipresent. Other events in 1996 also served to weaken the movement. During Lampley's trial in April 1996, it was revealed that John Parsons of the Tri-State Militia had been accepting money from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) for months (Swindell, 1996b). Virtually instantaneously, the militia network disintegrated. The Montana Freemen standoff in the spring also caused tension in the movement between conservative leaders such as John Trochmann of the Militia of Montana, who warned militia members away from the standoff, and more radical leaders such as Don Vos of Ohio and Bradley Glover of Kansas, who wanted intervention (Bowman, 1997). The Freemen standoff also caused considerable adverse publicity for extreme right-wing groups in general. By the fall of 1996, the movement had clearly faltered, and some prominent early members dropped out. These included Samuel Sherwood, founder of the Idaho-based United States Militia Association, who disbanded his group in September 1996, complaining that "the whole movement is being distorted on one side by the press and the media and taken over by the nuts and the crazies on the other" ("Militia Association," 1996). Not long after, Alabama militia leader Jeff Randall also quit, issuing an apology to law enforcement ("Militia Co-Founder Quits," 1997).
• By 1997, the militia movement was in disarray. In Ohio, the departure of militia spokesman J. J. Johnson left groups in the Buckeye State in confusion. To the north, the leadership of Michigan Militia spokesman Lee Van Huizen came into question, eventually erupting into a power struggle that split the organization into two separate factions, each claiming to be the legitimate Michigan Militia. In some states that had seen major arrests of militia members, such as West Virginia and Georgia, the small movements virtually disappeared. More moderate members dropped out of the movement because of some of the highly publicized arrests, and more radical members dropped out too, disgusted that the militia was not doing enough. Militia leaders made attempts, with only limited success, to reverse the situation. Perhaps the key efforts were those aimed at the unification of the movement. Twice-yearly gatherings of militia leaders at Knob Creek, Kentucky, site of a "machine gun shoot," allowed activists from around the country to meet. Other conversations took place at the Preparedness Expos, essentially a traveling trade fair for survivalists. Various successor groups to the Tri-State umbrella organization sprang up, including the U.S. Theatre Command (USTC), the Third Continental Congress, and the Southeastern States Alliance. Such groups attempted to increase communications and coordination among various militia groups, but the Third Continental Congress eventually disintegrated, and the USTC, after some unsuccessful attempts at militia diplomacy, lost much of its influence.10
• A few also benefited financially from the movement. Militia leaders such as John Trochmann of Montana, Drew Rayner of Mississippi, Mark Koernke of Michigan, and Harry and Dot Bibee of Tennessee, to name just a few stalwarts, were unlikely to suddenly drop out of the movement. Gatherings at places such as Knob Creek allowed leaders to try, at least, to smooth out differences, although there would always be some degree of infighting, while militia groups in some states attempted to provide renewed organization to local groups. In Ohio, for instance, the Ohio Unorganized Militia Assistance and Advisory Committee formed to coordinate the activity of Ohio militia groups, provide training, and even (briefly) offer a shortwave radio program. Perhaps more importantly, at least in the short run, the widespread concern or even panic in the extreme right over the Y2K computer bug caused considerable interest in the militia movement. A number of militia groups capitalized on Y2K concerns in their publications and offered training or preparedness seminars.

And so on for about 12,000 words. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Good digging Will. And, a very interesting read. Of note: William Potter Gale sought 'to find legitimacy in law' that seems to be a central defining theme of the CMM. Also I notice parallels between the CMM militia musters and the Reconstruction era 'white rifle-club' musters, in key aspects, both were anti-government rebel social clubs. And, also I notice that the CMM seems to have peaked in about 1996/7. SaltyBoatr 16:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Seeking legitimacy in laws and finding it are two different things. People like Gale are rejected by the kind of CMM groups linked to at http://www.constitution.org/mil/link2mil.htm . At the beginning he had some people fooled, and any of us can be fooled by a skillful pretender, but after he showed his true colors he was abandoned by most of his former supporters. As for peaking, the CMM has become more active since 2001, especially with all the books about nuclear terrorism and the increase in violent crime from illegal aliens. See border control and Minuteman Project. Jon Roland 19:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Being rejected by some in a movement doesn't mean one isn't a part of the movement. As for the size of the movement, such determinations are very difficult to make and we'll just have to summarize what the reliable sources say, even if they are out of date. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Rejected by only a few, no, but rejected by a consensus, yes. When almost all of those in a movement reject people from it, it is almost always because they deem the ones they are rejecting as liabilities, because almost any movement wants more supporters, and will be disposed to accept support where they can get it, even if they don't like them. To reject them is a decision that their support does more harm than good. The rejectees might constitute some movement, but not the movement of the rejecters. The websites we link to are consistent in rejecting persons and groups they do not consider CM. Many have pages with links to other sites and, other than not always being up to date, show a strong tendency to link to each other and not to non-CM sites. For purposes of our edits, it is certainly reasonable and not OR to say "The website <...> has a page <...> which links to other sites they consider constitutional militia (Retrieved <date>)." Jon Roland (talk) 00:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Pending a reliable source on the consensus of the CMM, such as an opinion poll or the minutes of a CMM-wide convention, I don't think we can make any generalizations about it. We can say that individual members or groups in the CMM have expressed certain opinions. Regarding your last point, if the original website were a relaible sourec, then we could use it. If it's a self-published website by a non-authority then we couldn't. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 00:53, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Jason Bauer paper, James Madison University 2002

This award winning paper seems to meet WP:RS standards and comes close to 'most reliable' standards because of the peer review. It does not firmly distinguish the CMM from the greater militia movement, but does pertain to CMM at least in passing I see because of the constitutional militia values described. http://www.jmu.edu/writeon/2002/bauer2002.htm

Here is a small quote: "Arriving at a conclusive number of anti-government militia groups in the United States today is impossible. By their very nature, these groups are secretive and seclusive. They often take great pains to simultaneously isolate themselves from parts of society they feel are corrupt or unacceptable, and spread their message of anti-government activism without compromising their security. At a conservative estimate, there are perhaps 200 groups in at least thirty states today that meet the basic criteria of an anti-government militia cell" SaltyBoatr 21:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It does not meet the standards of WP:RS. It is only a student essay that won a contest, not a peer-reviewed journal article. I also find that, while it is interesting as an extended op-ed, the author makes some rather long leaps from what can only be secondary or tertiary sources, not adequately cited. I also find that he made a number of errors, apparently speculative conclusions. There is hope for the young man eventually becoming a competent researcher, but he isn't there as of this paper. Jon Roland 01:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

That's a tricky one. While it is written by a student, it has been reviewed as part of the award process. That would tend towards it beingacceptable. What errors did you find, Jon Roland? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 02:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

A lot of little things, where he was obviously relying on tertiary sources, like the ADL-network. For example, he has McVeigh hanging out with "militia" in a context that suggests he was talking about the CMM, and in particular, the Michigan Militia. That is not correct. He only attended one meeting and was ejected from it. What he apparently (because nothing is certain about that case) did do was hang out with Covenant, Sword and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), a white supremacist group based in northern Arkansas, that never called itself a "militia". This is discussed in David Hoffman, Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror, especially Chap. 4. (Yes, we have permission to have it online, but others don't. It is okay to cite to our online copy. "Buck" Revelle sued Hoffman and his publisher, demanding all copies be "pulped", and the publisher caved, before David won his case. So print copies are scarce. For more on the subject see http://www.constitution.org/okc/okc.htm especially the John Doe Times, by Mike Vanderboegh. Jon Roland 04:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the main problem with the article is that it doesmn't really seem to deal with CMM as a distinct entity. It mentions "anti-government" militias, but it's not clear that it means constitutional militias. Or is it clear enough that the author means the CMM? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 02:34, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

As I said, "comes close" to 'most reliable' WP:RS standards. The fact that the paper has undergone scrutiny as part of an awards process, I think, clearly qualifies the paper to 'general' WP:RS standards. In any case, yes, I agree that the paper does not distinguish the CMM as being distinct. (My personal opinion: This reflects reality, which is that the CMM has a fuzzy distinction with overlaps to other wings of the greater militia movement.) SaltyBoatr 16:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

But it was only an entry in a student essay contest, which means that, unless all the entries were atrocious, winning only means the other entries were worse. Having won such a student essay contest in college (U Chicago) myself (co-winner with two others), and having had the paper read to an audience with enthusiastic applause (the paper was predicting electronically-mediated forums, much like those we have on the Internet today), I can attest that the standards were far from those for a professional journal article. As for the fuzziness, that is more about outsider perspective than insider. The insiders have a reasonably clear distinction, although of course one can never be sure about every individual in voluntary associations. One of my accomplishments beginning in 1994 was to get the movement determined to exclude individuals who were not CMM material. Most units have been doing a fairly good job of that, better than the military and law enforcement. I used to joke that in the 1950s the KKK could put 3 million on the streets, and that by 1994 they were doing well to get 30,000. The good news is that most of those guys reformed. The bad news is that most of the ones who didn't reform went into law enforcement. Jon Roland 04:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

You might be amused by my report, Exchange between Morris Dees and Jon Roland, Assembly at California State University, 1999 Nov. 9 — Illustrates use of questioning to turn an argument against someone. Jon Roland 16:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Weeber + Rodeheaver

I wish I could read this book: WEEBER, S. C., & RODEHEAVER, D. G. (2004). Militias in the new millennium a test of Smelser's theory of collective behavior. Lanham, Md, University Press of America. in its entirety. I am curious why the phrase 'constitutional militia movement' only appears once, and only in the appendix as 'messages coded 2'. What does that mean? In any case, the table 14 of organizational models on page 61 [1] is especially topical, but probably also belongs in the 'parent' article.

Looking in Google books I can see much in this 2004 book pertaining to 'constitutionalist' militia. SaltyBoatr 21:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

What I can see is interesting, but it contains many obvious flaws of reasoning and unsupported assertions. One of the most serious sources of bias is the current fashionable mind-set of sociologists to try to explain everything in terms of things like economic and social pressures, as though humans were not rational actors. They seem not to be able to comprehend that normal rational people tend to think it important to support a rule of law, or that many people have taken an oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution", and take their oaths seriously, as a matter of personal honor. I doubt most sociologists can spell "honor".

I see a tendency to commit category errors. For example, lumping all "white Christian supremacists" under the "Christian Identity" label. There are such people, but they are highly fragmented, and few of them have ever heard the phrase "Christian Identity" or read any of the writings that are associated with it. And even if all such people were lumped together, they are not predominant in numbers or influence, only in the minds of organiations trying to magnify the threat they might pose as a way to raise funds from donors. I have observed all kinds of group activities by many people of all kinds, and the CMM has consistently outnumbered "CI types" by a factor of more than 50 to 1. That is why CMM units have been able to exclude them. If "CI-types" were really so numerous they could take over CMM units, but that hasn't happened. Jon Roland 05:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Weeber & Rodeheaver is about the best source we've got so far. If I understand one of their conclusions, they've found that the modern militia movement has two parts: the CI part and the CMM part. Since this article concerns just the CMM, we need sources that distinguish CMM from the overall militia movement. What that Weeber & Rodeheaver say about CI is of little importance here, except to help us understand what is and isn't CMM. There's no reason to believe that CI-types would want to take over CMM groups even if they were a larger contingent. Weeber & Rodeheaver have made perhaps the only systematic attempt to quantify the number of people who are CI versus CMM, and that inforamtion is worth including too. If JR knows of a better source for this information then we can use that too. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

A problem with using Weeber & Rodeheaver as a source is that they, as outsiders, pin the label of "militia" on those who don't use it to refer to themselves. Self-identification as "militia" is almost always a sign the person is appealing to the Constitution, which racists seldom do, except perhaps to the Second Amendment. Supremacists tend to reject much of the rest of the Constitution, and you will find many of them calling for doing away with it, perhaps returning to the Articles of Confederation. In the early 1990s there were a few who tried to hijack the word to lend themselve credibility and try to attract support from constitutionalists, but that didn't work, and those few supremacists that used to use the word have almost all abandoned it. Weeber & Rodeheaver are essentially using the word to refer to any armed group not organized by government. It would not be unreasonable to refer to all the groups that assert the Second Amendment as a "Second Amendment movement", and of course, that amendment has a militia clause, but when individuals or groups affirm their oaths to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution", and cited the militia clauses to defend against invasion, insurrection, and lawbreaking, that almost invariably represents a rejection of bigotry, initiation of violence, or other kinds of misbehavior. Weeber & Rodeheaver simply do not distinguish the groups clearly by that test, and while we do want to cite to what academics publish in reliable sources, we also need to note when they do really sloppy work. In particular, we should not just adopt their conclusions in our edit summaries, but say something like, "According to one research study, ..." That means the lead paragraph needs to be modified to make it clear that it is just the opinion of one researcher, and not necessarily the truth. Jon Roland (talk) 00:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

possible defamation of militia (Definition section)

I found a fragment in the Definition section. The section itself states:

Operational features include.[5]:

1. Training in combat scenarios and weaponry skills in mock actions and maneuvers.

2. Has an identifiable territory in which members reside.

3. Bases organization philosophies on anti-government rhetoric.

4. Development of contingency plans in case of governmental provocation.

5. Considers bombing, kidnappings, separatism, "paper terrorism", or other extreme measures to protect the organic Constitution and/or the white race.

6. Considers the viability of criminal activity to acquire weapons and explosives.

Mostly the point 5; tell me, please, which members of Constitutional Militia (not CI or "Freemen" groups, only CMM please) ever planned bombings or kidnappings? Names and other facts, please. Who among them promoted separatism (from the United States; a clearly un-constitutional measure, though not "terrorist" one)? The point 6: whom among the Constitutional Militia ever promoted or considered criminal acts? What kind of criminal acts? Names and facts, please.

These are blatant charges, so they should be documented or commented as unverified/untrue.

And the fact they're presented as "definition" doesn't change anything. It could only be considered a cover-up of defamatory speech. If someone with anti-semitic agenda wrote that a definition of "Jew" is "crook and scrouge" would it be some abstractive definition or a plain and blatant DEFAMATION? For me, it would be the latter - an ugly, stinking, blatant, DEFAMATION unbased in any facts and libelous writing.

Also, a question of terminology in p.3 should be raised. The term "anti-government rhetoric' may suggest, that what they think and say about US Federal Government is somehow not really believed by CMM members, but rather some way, probably a tricky one, of misleading the public about the real goals and ideas of CMM. I think that the term ideas or ideology should be used instead. Critto (talk) 12:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

'Anti-Government'?

This weasel word needs to be removed. It doesn't even mean anything.

What is 'anti-government'? Being against the current policies of the US Government? Being Anarchist (Which these groups are not?)

It's a word that has no meaning other than to sow a subconscious feeling of negativity on the reader.

We might as well put in Doubleplusungood-militia in as a word while we're at it.

24.158.40.69 (talk) 06:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Flagging Controversy section as uncited,

I am Flagging the Controversy section and a problem because it does not cite sources.. please improve it and add cititations for any POV posted or it will be removed.