Talk:Mixed (United Kingdom ethnicity category)

Spelling Changes

Many of the ethnicities were spelled wrong, like Phillipino and Nivisian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.225.13 (talk) 21:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Veracity

What is the "Offical" status of the term? I've never heard of the term and I've lived here for 25 years and work in Local Government, so I am usually up-to-date with official terminology esp sociological ones. I know Google is not to be relied upon 100%, but searching for "Mixed British" finds nothing relevant. I've commented out the section of the article which claims that the term is officially recognised in the Census - it is not. The Census 2001 Ethnic Codes article makes no mention of it. This article needs to be properly sourced. It seems to me that somebody has decided to make it up, or has used a neoligism and tried to make it "official". The two articles used as "references" do not even mention the term.  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 22:28, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

As a way forward, would you accept a name-change to 'British Mixed Race'. 'Mixed' very clearly exists in the 2001 census codes you mention, and the 'British' part would be necessary to distinguish this group form mixed race populations in other countries. The opening blurb would then make it clear that 'Mixed' is the term used in the census. Indisciplined 00:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I would be happy with anything which is an official term.  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 21:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

History

I am removing the entire 'History' section from this article due to massive factual inaccuracies. There was a substantial black population in Britain before the Empire Windrush, and therefore a mixed-race population (especially in cities such as Cardiff, Bristol and London). It's claims also backed up with no sources whatsoever. The use of the word 'Negro' in this day and age is also quite startling. Indisciplined 18:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Do you have citations for these "substantial black populations". I don't remember any, and I was there (London). The term "negro" was used in its scentific sense - the human race being divided into three major groupings: negroid, caucasian and mongoloid. (And several minor groupings as well of course.) A euphemism would be inappropriate in this context. Markparker 13:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Classification and Legal Status

Also, can we get an urgent citation for the claims being made in this section that ethnic minorities receive preferential treatment on training schemes. As far as I'm aware, this is nonsense. Indisciplined 18:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

See here: http://www.ofmdfmni.gov.uk/positive-action Markparker 13:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

USAGE OF TERM `Mixed-Race'

In the UK, I have noticed the term `mixed race' has been used synonymously with the 'black' and 'white' mix and seldomly including Anglo-Indians or Eurasians. I am proposing Nasser Hussains image to be deleted. He would identify as fully Caucasoid. Cat Stevens (Greek/Swedish) identifies as mixed race on his own website. If I added his name to the list I am sure it would be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.52.112 (talk) 22:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Despite what Cat Stevens says, he is not mixed race, he is fully Caucasoid. Greeks and English are both white so really he is not mixed race, rather multiethnic. But seriously, just leave Nasser; I highly doubt any white British person is ready to include South Asians into their racial status, even though most South Asians are Caucasian in race. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.154.247 (talk) 14:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Read Black Athena Greeks are themselves mixed race. The police Identity Code in Britain identifies Mediterraneans as a seperate category from 'white'

Nasser Hussain is fully Caucasoid as well and can claim Aryan Heritage and looks whiter than Cat Stevens. Look Here : Nasser Hussain http://static.ecb.co.uk/images/width140/nasser-retirement-2-810.jpg and Cat Stevens http://www.knowprose.com/images/Yusuf_Islam.jpg Hence I have no objection to Cat Stevens being included on the list. look up Mediterranean race and both Indians and Greeks are included.

For one thing, the Mediterranean race is not a solid foundation. Hec, even the Welsh are considered a Mediterranean people. Just look at the Mediterranean race page. Nasser Hussain is not fully European, but Cat Stevens is, and that is the issue...Britons are more likely to accept a Greek as white than a Indian/Pakistani.

The preamble to the article refers to the British census definition of mixed race. This specifically included people of mixed Asian/European origins. It is not exclusively reserved for people of mixed European/African descent. So all the mixed European/Asian people mentioned CLEARLY fall within the definition of the article. Indisciplined (talk) 18:38, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Myleene Klass is mixed RACE as filipinos are a separate entity to Indo-Aryans. As Asian is an inhabitant of Asia. By your faulty logic, someone who is half English and half Russian (still fully white) should be classed as mixed-race as much of Russia is in Asia! Census definitions are usually based on what people identify themselves. Most white Britons I know would only consider a Southern European as `white' on a case by case basis depending on the individuals appearance. I have known many dark southern Europeans in the U.K. who have often experienced prejudice and been mistaken for South Asian or Middle Eastern (i.e. they've been called P**i!). They may be classed as `white' in the British Census but not always in society. Hence I have no objection to the offspring of a Mediteranean/Nordic identifying themselves as mixed race. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.202.216 (talk) 06:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

That's your opinion. This is an encyclopedia. We need facts. The census constitutes evidence that can be cited, so forms the factual basis of this article. Simple as that. Indisciplined (talk) 18:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

No Its not my opinion, it's what experiences i've known.

Back it up with evidence, or it has no place here.Indisciplined (talk) 20:46, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

According to Indisciplined someone who is half Syrian and half Korean is not mixed race on the grounds that they are still fully 'Asian' by continental definition. Err... last I knew one is Caucasoid and one is Mongoloid.

Not 'Indisciplned's definitions', but (and if you'd like to read the beginning of the article yet again, as that's what we are talking about here, the Census 2001 Ethnic Codes) which form the official statistical definitions for the UK Census. Amongst the definitions for mixed race, you will find that there is scope for people to define themselves as mixed 'Asian' and 'Chinese' or 'other mixed' if they are from a less common combinationm like the one described above. So yes, a person half-Syrian and half-Korean would absolutely and emphatically be covered by the census definiton used in this article. Once again, you have no argument. This article is about the UK Census definition, as clearly stated in the opening pre-amble. Indisciplined (talk) 20:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well the last time I checked the Welsh and Cornish was considered part of the "so called Mediterranean race." Remind me to identify someone who is half Welsh half English as worthy of being mixed race. Utter foolishness! People of southern European descent who are supposed to be "Mediterranean" like the Italians for example, also have very substantial Alpine and Dinaric elements as well, subgroups found from Britain to Germany to Russia, to Spain....cant you see the fallacy of the Mediterranean race debate? And considering that Italians, Spaniards, Frenchmen, Irish and the Englishmen are all one race, Caucasian, people of these combined ethnicities do not fill the bill of mixed race. People of south Asian heritage are predominantly Caucasian as well, but they have substantial Mongoloid traits as well! 24.36.207.146 (talk) 17:33, 26 November 2008 (UTC)Galati

Southern Europeans are mixed race. There is a significant amount of North African ancesry in them with significant amounts of Negroid admixture, so there! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.127.216.102 (talk) 03:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Read the above posts again. This article is based on the British census definitions PERIOD. It really is that simple. Indisciplined (talk) 21:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

British Mixed-Race

Where is the American and Canada mix race wiki? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.161.109 (talk) 18:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Here's the American one, Multiracial American, not sure if there is a Canadian one. Indisciplined (talk) 21:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Caucasians

Please note that Caucasians mixed with Caucasians are not mixed race. Non-European Caucasians and European Caucasians are the same race. The borders of Europe do not define race, they define Europe. Izzedine (talk) 21:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

This article is only organized in terms of the UK Census, not in racial/scientific/anthroplogical terms. The term "Caucasian" is not recognized by the UK Census, which only uses "White" to refer to people of European descent, while people of West Asian descent fall under "Other Asian" in the UK Census. In other words, a person of both European and West Asian descent would fall under mixed "White and Asian" in the UK Census. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 21:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

That it offered "White and Asian" as an option under mixed is not to be taken that all Asians are non-white, persons of European and Iraqi descent such as myself, select category 19, "White Other", as we are not mixed race. Iraq is only a few hundred miles south of the Caucasus Mountains. It is untrue and extremely offensive to conjecture that white people beyond the frontier of Europe, mixed with Europeans, are "mixed race". Members of my Iraqi family have blond hair, green eyes, and look like Northern Italians. People of the Near East are light skinned Caucasians. Izzedine (talk) 00:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

You may have chosen "White Other" when you filled out the Census, but the fact of the matter is that many other Iraqis chose "Other Asian" in the UK Census. Besides, the argument you are using here could equally be applied to fair-skinned Pakistanis, some of whom could also pass for Italians. If someone has a white parent and a fair-skinned Pakistani parent, they would fall under "British Mixed" without question. However, I think the problem here is with the title of this article. As far as I remember, the UK Census did not refer to "race", but rather mixed ethnicity. I think this article should be renamed to simply "British Mixed" or "Mixed British" to reflect this. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 03:55, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree and I had this dispute before. I added this statement to the article before it was deleted:

"Although the Term "Mixed -Race" can include anyone whose parentage is of two or more races and ethnic groups, it is often used in British society and media to identify people who are predominantly of the "black" and "white" mix as this constitutes the largest mix and often most visibly identifiable as being of mixed descent".

In other words the term is often used as a substitute for the racially offensive term "Mulatto". Izzedine should tick himself as being mixed, because socially Iraqis are not considered "white" in British society.

Here are some images of 50/50 mixed Indians and British. All of them look white as they are fully Caucasoid, Aryan and Indo-European. However they would still pride dual heritage and not cluster themselves into one or the other ethnic group:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sudaandmohana/2692188455/

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_q5b_j6sHfZk/STsosZ85y6I/AAAAAAAAcw0/6z8SOWAVkmw/s400/Sultanat_086.JPG

http://x71.xanga.com/fd7a72655173373037437/z49202373.jpg

http://www.herald.ie/multimedia/archive/00238/2711_Andrea_H_238442t.jpg