Talk:Chadian Civil War (2005–2010)

War?

I haven't seen this on Google News...I would conclude that it is breaking news...but given Wikipedia's recent vandalisms, I suspect this is fictional...

If you click on the links I provided you will see that this article is 100% accurate. "Vandalisms" is not a word. KI 03:29, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Vandalisms is too a word! Rampart 02:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

It apparently is true...[1] --Revolución (talk) 03:28, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

• Yeah, I'm surprised that it isn't on Google News, but when you search for Chad, it comes up: [2] --YixilTesiphon ^{Say hello}_{Be shallow} 04:27, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think the name of this article is appropriate. The two countries haven't even attacked each other, and whether or not the "declaration of war" actually says "war" is dubious.

From the discussion on Talk:Ongoing wars:

The BBC quotes a statement from the Chadian government as saying "state of war," whereas the Sudan Tribune (which might be expected to know if its own country is at war) quotes the statement as saying "state of belligerence." [Al-Jazeera and CNN also quote the word as "belligerence."] I haven't seen the Sudan Tribune call Sudan's conflict with Chad a war anywhere. The linked Sudan Tribune article also talks of preventing war, which would indicate that war hasn't yet begun.

If the statement actually said "war," or if the two countries' armies actually attack each other, then it will clearly be a war. But to say they're formally at war based on conflicting reports when Sudanese sources aren't calling it a war is premature.

Chad is clearly behaving with hostility towards Sudan, but because they haven't actually attacked each other yet and the quote in question is very fishy, I don't think it's correct to call it a war. It may escalate into a war, but right now I don't see any indication that it already is one. The United Nations News Centre doesn't make any mention of this supposed "declaration of war." --Mr. Billion 07:20, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

There is also this from Reuters: "While President Idriss Deby's government stopped short of declaring war or breaking ties with Sudan, the statement was the toughest so far against its eastern neighbour over the Dec. 18 attacks against the border town of Adre." I think that we've jumped the gun on calling this a war. (I've emailed the BBC about the story quoting the statement as saying "war.") Comments? --Mr. Billion 07:58, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I tend to agree; we should probably change war into conflict at this point in time. Any thoughts? El_C 08:40, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Appears to be to be a tense situation with rebel proxies employing violence, but not an inter-state war, at least not yet. Should be termed differently. Everyking 09:19, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Pursuant to this and given the general ambiguity, I've moved the word "officially". - Stlemur 14:04, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've changed it to "conflict", as well as cut down on the over-adjectivalism.--Pharos 15:21, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Reuters doesnt know what its talking about. Chad has already sent in planes and troops according to Sudan. The RDL has already begun planning their next attack for sure. The only reason not to call this a war is because there is a non-national group involved in the fighting. Conflict is too weak a word. I vote we change it to "Chadian-Sudanese state of belligerance." KI 16:06, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I will truly find the awnser when I arrive there. Wikizach 20:22, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Kudos to Mr. [Wikizach] for the up-to-date information; however, as I see the casualities of the Republic of Chad rising and I take stock of the grim military contrast of strength and equipment, I extend my caution and wishes of saftey to you. (KAsano 02:11, 27 December 2005 (UTC))

Map

A map that shows clearly the location of the countries involved may help this article. Thank you. CG 13:50, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

It would especially help if the borders of Darfur were shown distinctly. KI 16:08, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I've added a map of Sudan with Darfur highlighted. It would be best if someone could combine the maps of Chad and Sudan into one map with Darfur obvious. - Cuivienen 18:39, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Breaking News: CNN Correspondent

Hey, I am a correspondent and I have just found out that troops are engaging in battle. I am in the US embassy in Egypt, going to take a flight in about six hours to Chad. Wikizach 19:11, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but unfortunately we can't really use "tips" without a written source; that's our "encyclopedic" standard. I suppose we'll add it when you report on it.--Pharos 19:31, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, he could do original reporting for Wikinews, then cite Wikinews as a source. -- Natalinasmpf 20:52, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Until it is sourced it should not be included in the article. I have reverted to the last version by K4zem. KI 20:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Once I write an arcticle on Wikinews, how do I put the source in? Wikizach 00:03, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Well it's hopeful you have some evidence for the report, but just link it on Wikinews and we'll take care of citation matters ;. It could be cited just as any source, even with the wikinews template on it, or specifically as a footnote, it depends on how the article is presented. -- Natalinasmpf 00:07, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

• I will have all the details later, once I arrive there, but thanks!

Wikizach 00:09, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

• • Hmm, you haven't arrived there yet? Is there some source we could link to for the current casualty figures? It would clear up the objections of other editors - thanks. Good luck, don't get killed! -- Natalinasmpf 00:12, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

• Thank you, I took off around, I would say 7 EST, and got here, at about, three 1/2 hours later. I will continue to give you updates as in just ten minutes, I am going to go out to the field to see what's happening. I will be safe of course!

Wikizach 03:38, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[3]

There you can get the source. It is really scary out here. I heard guns going off every minute. I just got briefed by a Chad embassy official. Wikizach 03:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Reuters discrepancy

Quote: "The Security Council on Wednesday issued a statement condemning the attacks on Adre and endorsing efforts to reduce tensions along the border."[4]

The problem with that statement is that when I look here http://www.un.org/Docs/sc/presidency/press_05.htm I see no statement that even mentions the Battle of Adre, much less Chad. KI 02:44, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh wait never mind, I found it elsewhere on the page. I've temporarily replaced my userpage with the text of the Security Council statement. Eventually someone should move this to Wikisource. KI 02:52, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Casus Belli

Since I am not majoring in Modern Political Science, I was curious if any political think-tanks (or correspondants) have determined the cause/reason for the Battle of Adré and M. Nour's justification/claims. Since he has stated that he legitmately acknowledges Sudan/RDL involvement, an early formation of a 'Casus Belli' section or a scholarly conjecture in this Discussion Group would provide some clarity to this conflict. (KAsano 03:20, 27 December 2005 (UTC))

Nour accuses Deby of being even more corrupt than his predecessor. Nour and other officers formed the RDL because they say the previous presidential elections were unfair, which they were. The Battle of Adre was mainly aimed at the Military of Chad rather than the civilian population. As far as actual Sudanese support for the attack goes, it only appears as though they've treated the wounded. I've seen no evidence of financial support. Deby seems to have overreacted to Sudan's indifference, or he thinks he can shift the Chadian people's attention from growing domestic problems to a regime that is already accused of genocide and of supporting the LRA cult. KI 03:36, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Based on your conjecture, both parties seem to be using an ethical/moralistic public accusation for a rather domestical/political aim: unification in the common call of arms. Am I correctly comprehending your earlier post? If so, then the wide-spread casualties (1,500 est. and rising) seems to be have been the result of a more Sherman-esque approach to what could have been limited to isolated confrontation, in exemplum the War of 1812. More variety of political analysis/interpetation and perspective would be greatly benefical to this dicussion. (KAsano 03:47, 27 December 2005 (UTC))

I'm unsure about your statistics (1500? Source???) , but it seems like the best parallel to what's going on in terms of the relationship between Chad and Sudan is the Islamic world and Israel - divert domestic dissent into anger at an easy target. Deby's own tribe accuses him of doing too little to fight the Janjaweed and it is known that Sudan funds their attacks. It is not unreasonable to say that the Janjaweed are attacking Chad, but as for direct Sudanese support...that's really up to interpretation. KI 03:53, 27 December 2005 (UTC)