Talk:Veterinarian

VMD

I know only one state in the United States offers the VMD (Veterinary Medical Doctor) title instead of the standard DVM (Doctor of Veterinary Medicine) for doctors. What state is that? And should you become a doctor, can you use either title or do you have to use the title they give you? --Admiral Roo 12:50, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

• UPenn, not the State of Pennsylvania, offers the VMD. It is a degree, not a license, so the veterinarian would use the title "Dr" with the degree "VMD" after his or her name. AED 06:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

As per your question "Can you use either title?". There is no real advantage to using one title over another. DVM and VMD are the same degree. The only difference is that UPenn chose to call their graduates VMD's. The UPenn degree and diploma is written in latin, and this seems to be the logistical reason why those letters get switched around. Ultimately, there is no advantage to having a DVM instead of a VMD or vice versa.

Veterinary Informatics

I have removed the above section which contained the following: "Veterinary Informatics is the application of information technology to healthcare. Most vet clinics now utilize software for Practice Management Systems to control scheduling and billing of clients, tracking of inventory and automation of lab results. Addiitonally, many clinics are working towards becoming computerized for electronic patient records." Veterinary Informatics is much more about practice management than it is about being a veterinarian, plus it has its own article. A link to veterinary informatics is also contained within the article. AED 06:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

NPOV

This page deals almost exclusively with veterinary practice as done in america. Please expand to deal with other countries.

If you have information about such, please add. Elf | Talk 18:29, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Applicants: veterinary school vs. medical school

The article currently states: "Admission into veterinary medical school is competitive. According to the US Department of Labor, 1 in 3 applicants was accepted into a veterinary program in 2002. (Compare this with human medical school statistics of 1 in 2 applicants accepted, keep in mind however that human medical school acceptances have an average GPA of 3.7 and the acceptance rate per medical school is lower than that of vet schools)." The portion in bold was recently added without reference or citation.

1. The DOL reference regarding veterinary applicants can be found here: [1].
2. Regarding veterinary schools: The lastest report from the Association of American Veterinary Medical Colleges indicates 2,576 matriculants (mean GPA 3.53)[2][3] - no information on number of total applicants. Another website reported 6,695 applicants (mean GPA 3.42), 2,301 matriculants (mean GPA 3.62)[4] - these are probably 1999 figures. The same website indicated that each applicant files 3.65 applications and veterinary schools receive 10.62 applications per position.
3. Regarding medical schools: The latest report from the Association of American Medical Colleges indicates 35,735 applicants (mean GPA 3.47), 17,662 accepted, 16,648 matriculants (mean GPA 3.62)[5][6].

I found no data to support the recently added assertions that "human medical school acceptances have an average GPA of 3.7" or that "the acceptance rate per medical school is lower than that of vet schools". It does appear that those applying to and entering medical school do have a slightly higher GPA, but that admissions into veterinary school are more competitive (as the article stated in its previous incarnation). AED 06:39, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

EDIT FROM A DIFF POSTER: The Medical School Admission Requirements (MSAR, aka medical school bible) manual can be purchased from the AAMC. The most competitive medical school (Johns Hopkins etc.) have GPAs of about 3.8-3.9 (US News and World Report). I am not familiar with with which schools are competitive in the veterinary field, however, Cornell's program has an average of 3.5. Also, the reason that OVERALL human medical school admissions gpa is dragged down is because there are several (3-4) medical schools (ie Howard, Meharry) that have an average gpa of ~3.0. This is because they almost exclusively favor disadvantaged students (these colleges acknowledge this, call them) as well as students of color (which are NOT equivalent). Hence, if you are NOT considered disadvantaged or of color, the average gpa for matriculants in human medical school is then ~3.7 (AAMC and MSAR). As far as competitiveness, it depends on what defines competitiveness: Many in number but average in quality applicants (Veterinarcy Medicine) vs. less in number but above average in quality applicants (Human Medicine). As a side note, human medical schools actually experienced a shift from high quantity, avg quality to lower quantity, above avg quality in the late 90s (source: MSAR or any medical school admissions). During this shift, it is widely agreed that human medicine admissions were getting more competitive, despite the decrease in quantity. Moreover, there are professions with an even lower acceptance rates than either vet or medical school but are not considered "more competitive." Hence, I believe as well as the general public (in the US) that human medicine is more prestigious as well as more competitive. Regardless of how competitiveness is defined to an individual, it is safe to say both professions are extremely competitive. Students considering either profession should look into the salary (Human Medicine by far trumps veterinary medicine, BLS website), time available for family (most veterinary medicine by far trumps human medicine), length of training (most vets trump physicians here again), as well as the obvious question of wanting to deal with people or not. As far as question of competitiveness for human medical school, students should note their state residency and nationality (this is arguable, but human medical school have publicly acknowledged this as well as seen in admissions stats on AAMC's site). The bottom line is that numbers can be deceiving when there are moderating variables. Moreover, students should first decide which profession they prefer. And if not competitive enough, then look into another. And again look into whether they have competitive numbers. They should not look into competitiveness first. And as a career counselor for UC Berkeley, I can say that it is common to see a premedical student fail to be accepted into medical school pursue and obtain a position in veterinary school. I have never seen this occur once the other way around. Take this information as you will. (unsigned comments from User:71.198.171.26, last edited 07:41, 26 December 2005)

To User:71.198.171.26, you are welcome to edit the article and post in the Talk pages as you see fit, but please do not edit the comments of others in the Talk pages. Please sign your name with ~~~~ . Thanks. AED 17:24, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Similar to programs offered by other schools, the Veterinary Medical Opportunity Program is a six-week course in your own UC system that helps the “disadvantaged” get into veterinary school. Perhaps you should check it out. The point being, I imagine that the average GPA for veterinary schools would be much higher if we threw out their low-scoring matriculants, too.

Regardless, there seems to be a bit of double standard in this examination of statistics. You suggest that competitiveness is not defined merely by numbers (i.e. “it depends on what defines competitiveness”), but the quality of applicants is defined that way (i.e. the higher the GPA, the higher quality the applicant is). No one disputes that GPA is an extremely important indicator of an applicant’s quality, but obviously it is not the only one. I imagine that someone who ignores what the general public considers “prestigious” and pursues a profession in which they must be able to know, diagnose, and treat many species for a much lower salary than their human medicine counterpart is not merely what you have termed “average in quality”. Furthermore, it is a common misconception that people choose veterinary medicine because they “don’t want to deal with people”. Like human physicians, veterinarians must master the art of communication with other humans. Unlike human physicians, veterinarians must also master the care of patients who cannot complain about their ailments. I hope you counsel your students appropriately on these points in the future. - AED 06:53, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

You obviously do not understand the points I've made. Please do not make further edits addressing me since I will no longer be checking up on this site. Students, don't listen to EITHER of us. Talk to YOUR counselor.