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** I was pointing out that you are a self-professed feminist attacking a men's movement activist, not that you were just a woman. That gives you a vested interested in silencing people like Zubaty. It is you that is getting insulting (what a surprise!). He is a notable activist referred to regularly on the net even if the corporate press ignore him like they do with practically every aspect of the MRM. Your attempt at censorship is blatantly part of your feminist agenda and should be dismissed out of hand as such. --[[User:Cathbard|Cathbard]] ([[User talk:Cathbard|talk]]) 12:10, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
** I was pointing out that you are a self-professed feminist attacking a men's movement activist, not that you were just a woman. That gives you a vested interested in silencing people like Zubaty. It is you that is getting insulting (what a surprise!). He is a notable activist referred to regularly on the net even if the corporate press ignore him like they do with practically every aspect of the MRM. Your attempt at censorship is blatantly part of your feminist agenda and should be dismissed out of hand as such. --[[User:Cathbard|Cathbard]] ([[User talk:Cathbard|talk]]) 12:10, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
***Yes, I understand that you are blaming my identification of myself as a feminist, rather than your own inability to find [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] discussing a person you claim is [[WP:BIO|notable]]. You are incorrect, but the only way to really test that is to provide two or three sources which unimpeachably meet [[WP:RS|the reliable sources guidelines]], and then see if I try to "censor" you by removing them from the article or continuing to support deletion. I, too, am frequently discussed on the internet, but that does not mean I am a useful subject for an encyclopedia article. -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 12:16, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
***Yes, I understand that you are blaming my identification of myself as a feminist, rather than your own inability to find [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] discussing a person you claim is [[WP:BIO|notable]]. You are incorrect, but the only way to really test that is to provide two or three sources which unimpeachably meet [[WP:RS|the reliable sources guidelines]], and then see if I try to "censor" you by removing them from the article or continuing to support deletion. I, too, am frequently discussed on the internet, but that does not mean I am a useful subject for an encyclopedia article. -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 12:16, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
** We have given you several links within the MRM but apparently they don't count to your feminist-centric mind. He ''is'' notable within the movement as we have clearly demonstrated. Your objection to the movement itself (as you have clearly shown) does not make his notability any the less but does support my assertion that this is purely a feminist attack on the MRM and has nothing to do with the rules.--[[User:Cathbard|Cathbard]] ([[User talk:Cathbard|talk]]) 12:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
*Rich Zubati is a well know within his field of writing. He is also am active painter and artist. I can not see why deleting this page would be justified. Wikipedia is a good place for people to come to find out about people who are not easy to investigate otherwise. I often come to Wikipedia to find out about obscure people and events. If you want to continue to provide this sevice then certainly I would not delete this page.
*Rich Zubati is a well know within his field of writing. He is also am active painter and artist. I can not see why deleting this page would be justified. Wikipedia is a good place for people to come to find out about people who are not easy to investigate otherwise. I often come to Wikipedia to find out about obscure people and events. If you want to continue to provide this sevice then certainly I would not delete this page.

Revision as of 12:37, 8 May 2010

Rich Zubaty

Rich Zubaty (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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I noticed this article because Mr. Zubaty himself has been busily creating links to it from other articles. When I read it, though, his chief claims to notability seem to be three self-published books and a podcast, and when I performed a google news search, I couldn't find any reliable, independent sources writing about his importance. In my opinion, there is not enough verifiable information currently available to write an article about this subject. FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 11:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep But in MY opinion the books are well-researched and full of references. Other authors, many from academic backgrounds, are quoted at length. The point of Wikipedia is to BUILD an article step by step. As someone who had read some of Mr. Zubaty's books I vehemently DISAGREE that this article should be deleted. Indeed, it should be allowed to be expanded just like other articles. Wikipedia should NOT be biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.184.226.223 (talk) 13:42, 7 May 2010 (UTC) \[reply]
    • Note: This user, based on my recent interactions, is almost certainly Rich Zubaty- see my talk page. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 14:02, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Wrong: As a quick verification of IP addresses will show, not even a good author can be in two parts of the world at once. So much for FisherQueen’s judgement and so much for her opinions. I am NOT Rich Zubaty, but someone who has read his books. And someone who is trying contribute to Wikipedia but keeps having his additions removed by vandals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.198.144 (talk) 14:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • In fact, I'd love to expand this article, and started out by trying to do so. Wikipedia's rules only allow me to use information that doesn't come directly from Zubaty, though- I need to use information from neutral sources like newspapers and magazines, or books that have been written about him, not by him. I couldn't find even one source that I could use to expand the article. If you know of any, that's the best way to help the article, because we aren't allowed to keep information that isn't verified in sources like that, and in this article, removing the unsourced information leaves no article at all. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:59, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, no references, not notable; N.B. IP clearly refuses to read the guidelines (forced reinsertion of inappropriate links, etc.). --Dirk Beetstra T C 14:19, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]


  • DO NOT DELETE. I read Mr Zubaty's first book years ago and found it to be one of a very limited number of books I have read that had a significant impact on my own thinking. He is a free thinker and not tethered by the conventions of political correctness. I found this refreshing as I also found his ideas stimulating. Suggesting to delete his page here seems to make absolutely no sense to me. Unless different ideas that don't match with political correctness are a reason for deletion I can't think why someone would want to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimmccull (talk • contribs) 22:48, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • DO NOT DELETE. Mr. Zubaty is a well known activist and author in the men's rights movement. To delete his page would be no different than deleting that of a similar feminist icon from the women's movement. Making any distinction between self published books and those published by more traditional methods is discriminatory, especially give the bias in publishing houses regarding men's rights literature.

Paul Elam Editor-in-Chief Men's News Daily —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.201.88.191 (talk) 18:12, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tim Baehr Publisher, Menletter.org My newsletter, Menletter.org, contains a review of one of Rich Zubaty's books at http://menletter.org/articles/What Men Know That Women Don't.htm. His is a voice many may find irritating, and the content of his thoughts may not be universally accepted. I see these as no reason to delete his bio. Menletter is in its ninth year of publication. Menletter (talk) 18:59, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Blogs aren't reliable sources, and neither are forums, which means the first, second, and fourth items on your list are out. I didn't see an article about Zubaty with any information at "fathersforlife," just a quote from one of his books. We could use that to verify that quote is in the book, if we needed to, but that's all I saw. I can't figure out what "angryharry" has to do with Zubaty, nor can I figure out whether it would be a reliable source- it looks like some guy's blog, not like a published newspaper or magazine or a significant source of information, and I didn't see anything about Zubaty- maybe I looked in the wrong place. Has he been interviewed in a real newspaper, or in a print magazine, or written about on a web site that isn't a blog? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Zubaty has requested that his page be deleted
I am not sure if this is significant, but a user claiming to be Zubaty has specifically requested that this page be deleted. His statement is as follows, "DELETE my page. I just had someone from Huffington Post link to my wiki page at which point I found out that all my links have been removed. Sabotage. I would rather people link directly to my web site. Rich Zubaty." Ebikeguy (talk) 02:30, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • DO NOT DELETE. This is a transparent attempt at censorship. This is obvious by the attempt to belittle the man with the "self published" comment. It is ironic because Zubaty warns against suckling at the corporate teat in his books. He is a well known activist being persecuted by this scurrilous attack by an opponent. Here is a link to a search on a well known activist site with many references to him ** http://news.mensactivism.org/search/node/Zubaty

Quite frankly I find this attempt to censor Zubaty absurd. This is a feminist trying to censor a men's rights activist on the grounds that he has little presence in the corporate press - which is also a group that he opposes. Men's rights are largely ignored by the press, are we going to make Wikipedia also a means of suppressing things that are not deemed politically correct by feminists and the corporate world? Outrageous!! --Cathbard (talk) 03:20, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    • Yes, I wondered when one of you would start getting insulting with me personally. Looking at his web site, I figured that most of the people in this discussion would object to a female editor explaining the rules to them. If that's a problem, I certainly don't mind if you read the rules for yourself. I've linked them in this discussion already several times. I can't promise that no women were involved i writing them, but many men were involved; if I recall the last set of statistics correctly, there are more men than women editing Wikipedia, so you can read WP:BIO comfortable in the knowledge that they are at least mostly written by people with penises. Normally, people start getting insulting in these discussions when they've realized that the person they want to write about really doesn't meet the notability criteria; is that the position you're in? You can still write about him on your own web site, where you can make the rules yourself and don't have to let any women participate. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 10:56, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was pointing out that you are a self-professed feminist attacking a men's movement activist, not that you were just a woman. That gives you a vested interested in silencing people like Zubaty. It is you that is getting insulting (what a surprise!). He is a notable activist referred to regularly on the net even if the corporate press ignore him like they do with practically every aspect of the MRM. Your attempt at censorship is blatantly part of your feminist agenda and should be dismissed out of hand as such. --Cathbard (talk) 12:10, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, I understand that you are blaming my identification of myself as a feminist, rather than your own inability to find reliable sources discussing a person you claim is notable. You are incorrect, but the only way to really test that is to provide two or three sources which unimpeachably meet the reliable sources guidelines, and then see if I try to "censor" you by removing them from the article or continuing to support deletion. I, too, am frequently discussed on the internet, but that does not mean I am a useful subject for an encyclopedia article. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 12:16, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • We have given you several links within the MRM but apparently they don't count to your feminist-centric mind. He is notable within the movement as we have clearly demonstrated. Your objection to the movement itself (as you have clearly shown) does not make his notability any the less but does support my assertion that this is purely a feminist attack on the MRM and has nothing to do with the rules.--Cathbard (talk) 12:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rich Zubati is a well know within his field of writing. He is also am active painter and artist. I can not see why deleting this page would be justified. Wikipedia is a good place for people to come to find out about people who are not easy to investigate otherwise. I often come to Wikipedia to find out about obscure people and events. If you want to continue to provide this sevice then certainly I would not delete this page.
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