Talk:UFC 117

usa v brazil

is this the first PPV entirely made up of 1 country v another?

Reason to not delete

There are many additional sources which point to this event being UFC 117. MMA event articles initially start off skimpy as many fights have not yet been announced. This typically will not happen until about 4 months out - I see no point in delaying the creation of an article based on that however. Search google for "UFC 117 Boston" and you'll find dozens of search results - both ticket sales which specifically say "UFC 117" as well as various credible MMA sites reporting it in addition to Joe Lauzon having mentioned it in an interview.

No, there aren't, because otherwise they'd be in this article. Your two sources don't say anything about the Boston event being 117. You may also notice the huge time gap between 116 and 117. There will be 117 in the middle of 116 and the Boston event AT LEAST. I guarantee the Boston event will NOT be 117. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:56, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

In addition, 116 isn't "skimpy." It's fully sourced, unlike this page, which has no sources to say it's 117. (Reliable sources needed, you have none). Also, can we see these apparent sources? My search provides nothing. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you are right. I suppose though, if UFC 117 doesn't end up being the Boston event, it would only require a little editting once that information came out. BTW, why hasn't Affliction Triology been deleted? That event has a page but never even happened? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pull lead (talk • contribs) 00:39, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Needs to be deleted for now.

As for Affliction, it's a credible page as it showed what was to be the final event. It gives insight into why Affliction went down, e.g. Barnett effectively killing the company with his drug failure. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:43, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Not to get too off topic, but it seems that like would be better suited to be on the Affliction page, but I digress. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pull lead (talk • contribs) 01:16, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

The Affliction page indicates it WAS a scheduled event, which makes it accurate. Just as confirmed future UFC events (and ones confirmed by the athletic comissions, etc) have pages as well. Joe8609 15:01, 2 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe8609 (talk • contribs)

Background/Announced Matchups

"All five bouts on the main card feature an American fighter against a Brazilian fighter." This information seems outdated, there seems to be 6, not 5 fights announced. The most recently announced fight on the main card is an American versus a Dutchman, Stefan Struve vs. Christian Morecraft. Alovell83 16:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alovell83 (talk • contribs)

Not main card. Paralympiakos (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

struve had been added on fight card after hazelett/story on prelims —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.183.253.122 (talk) 02:17, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, sir. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:22, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

also, wallace fight needs to be put at the bottom of the card to match correct fight order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.183.253.122 (talk) 02:50, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Done. You should sign up for an account. Looking at your contributions, you've done some good work and if you signed up, you'd be able to get past the page protection as you'd be a proper trusted user. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:52, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Ricardo Almeida was born in the USA his flag icon should be USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by N2492004 (talk • contribs) 09:52, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

.....to Brazilian parents....enough said. Paralympiakos (talk) 09:53, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Right but he still an American —Preceding unsigned comment added by N2492004 (talk • contribs) 09:55, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Based on what?? Paralympiakos (talk) 09:56, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

--N2492004 (talk) 09:58, 6 July 2010 (UTC)He was born in the United States.

Being born somewhere and actual nationality are mostly two different things. Being born in the U.S. is irrelevant here. He's even got a Brazilian accent. In no way is he American and if he is, it's a second nationality, meaning it takes a backstep to Brazilian. Paralympiakos (talk) 09:59, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Did he tell you that?--N2492004 (talk) 10:01, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I'll ask you the same question. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

So then why Brazilian over American?--N2492004 (talk) 10:06, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

To answer that, I'll have to go round in circles and repeat what I've said. I won't be doing that, so I'm going to stop responding after this message. If you continue to remove nationalities/change them without sourcing, you'll be warned again. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:09, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Somebody else needs to weigh in on this--N2492004 (talk) 11:09, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Taking "Somebody else needs to weigh in on this" as a request for an uninvolved third opinion, here is one. If he is of Brazilian nationality and fights as a Brazilian then that is what the flag should show. Where he was born is irrelevant. JamesBWatson (talk) 11:55, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

How is where his parents from relevant? by the way he has lived the majority of his life is the United States. —Preceding unsigned comment added by N2492004 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

source? According to his own website, he was born in NY, then moved to Brazil and returned a few years ago. Got a source arguing against that? Paralympiakos (talk) 12:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

this Paralympiakos (talk) 12:15, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't solve anything he considers himself half-Brazilian half-American —Preceding unsigned comment added by N2492004 (talk • contribs) 06:48, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's unknown what nationality he fights as.--N2492004 (talk) 12:03, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

It's actually not unknown. Almeida fights as an American and has previously come out to Fortunate Son by Creedence Clearwater Revival, which is a song with clear and strong American undertones. Also in UFC's tale of the tape they show an American flag under his name. And why wouldn't they? He was born in the United States in NYC, and trains and fights out of Hamilton, NEW JERSEY which is get this..apart of the United States. Holy crap what a concept. TonyFreakinAlmeida (talk) 16:26, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Yet I've proved you wrong already....holy crap what a surprise. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I've already proven you wrong, you just undid the evidence on a technicality. Doesn't make it any less true. TonyFreakinAlmeida (talk) 01:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

No you've not. Read my link above. Goodbye. Paralympiakos (talk) 08:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Pretty retarded how a blog holds more weight over what's stated an actual fight video, ring introduction and entrance music. Oh well! You win. TonyFreakinAlmeida (talk) 06:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Please don't use the term "retarded". A blog.....depends on your definition, but it comes from ufc.com. The actual fight video has the American flag (on the tale of the tape) because UFC only uses the flag of the country you were BORN in, not your actual nationality. Entrance music means nothing really. A fighter could come into "Everybody dance now" .....doesn't necessarily make them gay. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:14, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Almeida has been listed as American here on Wikipedia on all his previous UFC appearances. No sense in changing that just for this card. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Copperheart0718 (talk • contribs) 16:13, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

This is hilarious to see how many times it is changed.Ppt1973 (talk)

Even though I'm involved in it, I pretty much agree. I've given facts, but Americans still seem adamant in claiming a Brazilian as their own. His only claim to the U.S. was that he spent a few months after birth and moved back in his 20s. That gives him a U.S. passport, not full, primary nationality. Paralympiakos (talk) 15:47, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

You still haven't given a good reason why his flag should be Brazilian.--N2492004 (talk) 04:48, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I've given you a source. What else do you want? The individual changing it back to American has violated 3RR and I suggest they stop. Paralympiakos (talk) 15:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Saying that Almeida is not American because his parents were born in Brazil shows a lack of knowledge of U.S. immigration policy. By that logic, president Andrew Jackson was also not American. Almeida is listed as American by his employer, http://www.ufc.com/RicardoAlmeida by the Nevada Athletic Commission, http://boxing.nv.gov/2008%20Results/07-05-08%20MMA.pdf

Claiming he's Brazilian because he spent his youth in Brazil and has an accent is no argument. At this point, changing his flag to Brazil's is merely a futile exercise in page symmetry. Copperheart0718 (talk) 00:16, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

• Parents - Brazilian
• Grew up - Brazil
• Accent - Brazilian
• Nickname - Brazilian
• UFC and NAC flags - always by BIRTH country, NOT nationality, therefore American.
• Own admission - "Brazilian-American"

Verdict: Brazilian with American citizenship by default. He has citizenship, nothing more. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:34, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I've also removed wikipedia links. Wikipedia is not a source for itself. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:35, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope you realize that parents, country of schooling, accent and nickname have zero bearing in regards to citizenship. Can you source Almeida's "admission?" If you feel that strongly about a dual citizenship, why was the prior proposal of two flags removed? Additionally, why fix this one page only but not the other 5 UFC-event pages on Wikipedia listing him as American? Personally I feel you've violated the rules here by insisting on something that you merely assume (Brazilian citizenship). Bruce Lee was the child of Hongkongese parents, raised in Hong Kong but that doesn't make him not American. Mel Gibson is the son of an Australian, raised in Australia, but we all can agree he's American. Same thing here. Copperheart0718 (talk) 02:31, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I've sourced his admission above if you care to look. It's a source that is a direct copy from a UFC article and there he classes himself as Brazilian American. The dual flag thing wasn't a good fit as we never do that for anyone. Also, I've just not bothered to go back and change the rest as it doesn't seem worthwhile to incite more arguments on different pages. We sort this one out, then change the flags on other pages later.

Really, this comes down to the fact that you butchered my hidden message. You essentially made it read as "do not change to BRA as this is factually wrong"

Sorry.....but no it isn't. Brazil is his first nationality. He's "American" by a technicality and even then it's a secondary nationality. I;m not trying to deny he has American citizenship/passport etc, but it's NOT his primary nationality, which is what we put for the flag on wikipedia. Same goes for Kryzsztof Soszynski with Poland and Canada. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:07, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe that hidden "do not change" message should not have been there in the first place, since there is no consensus yet. Copperheart0718 (talk) 14:23, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

It should have been though. I've properly sourced it from a reliable source, not one that only uses the country of birth. You were the one being snide by changing it, as well as edit warring without logical argument. Paralympiakos (talk) 14:39, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully we can agree that parents, country of schooling, accent and nickname also don't make a logical argument. Copperheart0718 (talk) 14:44, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Accent doesn't, no, but it certainly hints at him being Brazilian.....you know....because he grew up there and has Brazilian parents and is only "American" because he spent a couple of months there before moving to his homeland. If you were born on your parents holiday (let's say Canada) and immediately moved back to their home of America, what nationality would you class yourself as? Paralympiakos (talk) 14:46, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I was born in West Germany, so my nationality is German. I lived in Brazil as a minor (for 12 years) as did Ricardo Almeida, so I am culturally Brazilian but I don't live there, nor do I have the right to carry a Brazilian passport. Also, you said that "he classes himself as Brazilian American." Just like Sylvester Stallone is Italian-American. The first word in this case (Brazilian or Italian) denotes a cultural subgroup. The second work (American) denotes the true nationality. Copperheart0718 (talk) 14:52, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Brazilian and American then. Here, just look at this link. The first line: "It is a name that is synonymous with Brazil."

Another line: "But wait for a second - if he's Brazilian, why is New Jersey his home state and why does a United States flag appear on the screen when his tale of the tape is listed?"

UFC are even saying that he's Brazilian, but that the U.S. flag is used as they always use the flag of their place of birth.

In his own mind, his only claim to U.S. heritage was that he's lived there for 13 years and has a family there:

"I was born in the USA, but I grew up in Brazil and when I was 20 years old I moved back to the USA," Almeida responds. "I’ve already lived here for nearly 13 years, and got married and had my kids here. So I feel that I am half-American, half-Brazilian." Paralympiakos (talk) 14:56, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Hey Paralympiakos i agree with u that Almedia is a brazilian and an american citizen , but you said that the tale of the tape if done by the country they were born , so how come micheal bisping has got a uk flag ( i know that he is british) but he was born in cyprus and anyway anyone in America had ancestery from europe or africa so if we were all technical then every one in the US would say ffor example , im a french american or african american but they dont do they , heres another example , rampage calls himself american when CLEARLY he is affrican american , due to his parents and heritage so the same goes for Almedia , if his parents were born in brazil and his amily heritage is brazilian then guess what , HES BRAZILIAN, if a chinese person was born in africa and grew up there would u call him african ??? NOO (ohh by the way the rant is directed to the people the say he is not brazilian :) ) Xtomox (talk) 01:19, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Tim Boetsch vs. Todd Brown is official at ufc.com; scheduled to take place just before Phil Davis/Rodeny Wallace bout on prelims.Ppt1973 (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.96.251.110 (talk) 00:56, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe we've resolved the question of dual vs. primary citizenship for Almeida. At least I don't see a consensual verdict. Though Paralympiakos deserves kudos for the hard work removing all inconsistencies.  :) Copperheart0718 (talk) 21:54, 1 August 2010 (UTC)