Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/116th Street Crew

116th Street Crew

116th Street Crew (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Premise of article and article title are pure OR. There is no reliable sourcing which indicates there is or was such a thing as a "116th Street Crew," yet the term is used repeatedly throughout the article along with "Palma Boy Social Club Crew," another made-up expression. This is an apparent web- or editor-created neologism. Entire article is primarily sourced to non-RS website. Factual accuracy dubious. Many web references apparently originating with Wikipedia article, nothing on Google News. Article should be deleted entirely or, preferably, with neologisms removed, merged with Genovese crime family or Anthony Salerno ScottyBerg (talk) 15:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

• Keep I believe the page should remain. The article is relevant, the title is correct and it is one of the oldest mafia crews in New York City. The page should have more references but to shouldn't be deleted.--JoeyBR (talk) 20:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Joey, this article is about Mafia gangsters in East Harlem, specifically with the Genovese family. There's no question that there is such a history, and many books/articles written about it over the years. My concern is with the existence of a specific "116th Street crew." I have a number of Mafia books myself, and none refer to such an organization. Google News shows absolutely nothing. There is much on the web, but not from reliable sources. I think that "116th Street Crew" may be an invented term or "neologism" that gained currency on the Internet but has no historical basis. ScottyBerg (talk) 22:52, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

• Comment further examination of the sources in the article indicate just one source utilized in the article, a deposition by Vincent Cafaro, mentioning a "116th Street crew." That's a primary source and insufficient to justify use of that name for this article. What this article seems to be about is the extensive East Harlem operations of the Genovese family, with "116th Street crew" placed on it as a label. One alternative to deletion is to either merge this with the larger Genovese article, or frame a broader article on East Harlem mafia activities, but that would have to include other Mafia families. ScottyBerg (talk) 23:20, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 16:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 16:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 16:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
• Keep - The premise for deleting the page is that the title, amongst other things are OR. However one of its own members, Vincent Cafaro, has said that that was the formal name for the crew. See the second citation to see the declaration Cafaro made about the crew. Some of the Genovese family's most notable mobsters have run the crew. This along with enough third party resources makes it acceptable in my opinion. Needs a lot more citations, though. --Ted87 (talk) 05:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

• Keep - If the title is what ScottyBerg believes is wrong with the page then, if should be changed to "Genovese crime family East Harlem Crew" (but more accurate title is "116th Street Crew") the crew has also been reported as the "Uptown Crew" (see the reference I added on the page now). Top members within Genovese family and the New York City mafia refer to the Crew as the "116th Street Crew". Most books don’t give a title to a Crew but names are based on geography locations of each crew’s criminal bases. The point Scotty makes that the page should be just about East Harlem mafia members is confusing. There have been two separate crime families operating in the area since the early 1900s, the Genovese (116th Street) and the Lucchese crime family on (107th Street). The 116th Street page is broken down into section about the leader (or Capo) of the crew up until the new capo emerges. This 116th Street crew has maintained control over an illegal gambling racket in East Harlem known as the Policy games (that can be traced back to the 1850s or early). I’ve been working on improving the page and for it to be nominated for deletion is upsetting to me. I understand the page needs more references for verifications but I believe it should not be deleted. --Vic49 00:16, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

What concerns me is the excessive synthesis and lack of sourcing to substantiate the article's constant reference to a kind of single Mafia organization in that region with the name "116th Street crew." This was the largest Italian neighborhood in NYC prior to 1950, and the sources suggest multiple and not single Mafia groups there, even within the Genovese organization. However, even if you remove the other families, a retitling to something like "Genovese Family East Harlem Operations" and removal of OR and synthesis may work. ScottyBerg (talk) 14:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - The discussion on the 116th Street Crew page between Rogermx and ScottyBerg should be brought into this debate. --Vic49 00:16, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Support: I agree with Vic49, the page should keep the same (116th Street Crew) title. --JoeyBR (talk) 14:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)