Talk:Serbs

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Archived discussions (earliest first): /Archive 1 ... /Archive 2 ... /Archive 3 ... /Archive 4 ... /Archive 5 ... /Archive 6

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Serbs by place

Slovenia

The number of Serbs in Slovenia is definitely not 38964 + 18000 erased. First, the 18000 "erased" inhabitants of Slovenia (i.e., citizens of other ex-Yugoslav republics who failed to apply for either residence permit or citizenship and were subsequently "erased" from the official registry in 1992) were not only Serbs, but also Bosniaks, Croats, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Albanians etc. Second, practically all of the "erased" have either taken care for their status since then (i.e. obtained citizenship/residence permit) or have left Slovenia. Most of the "erased" remaining in Slovenia were therefore already included in the 2002 census. So, the upper bound for the number of Serbs in Slovenia is about 40000. The number of almost 60000, suggested by the article, is therefore a misinformation and a gross overestimate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.235.183.141 (talk) 09:26, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo

Serbia with over a 100 other countries sees Kosovo as a province. So that is why it is under Serbia in the population. Mike Babic (talk) 22:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The serb population data is ridicolous. 83% are the Serbs in Serbia Ecluding Kossovo - which means 83% of 7.5 ml = 6 ml. Including Kossovo the population of Serbia is 10 ml and the percent of serbs - 60% —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.92.229.11 (talk) 13:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

the Serb population in Serbia is 6.2 million...it should be remedied...8.3 milion? 83% of what? it is clearly wrong... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.145.11 (talk) 11:01, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

83% of Serbs in Serbia, which includes Kosovo. Stop getting your info from people who want to separate Kosovo like World Bank of KFOR, they've never had a census of the entire region. Total population of Serbia proper is 9.462 million of which 83% are ethnic Serbs which is currently 7.8 million, although it used to be 8.27 million before the turn of the millennium. A lot of Serbs left Kosovo and Serbia. Those that remained refuse to respond to KFOR surveys which is why the "legal" Kosovo population is very much under the "actual" 2.127 million. 99.236.221.124 (talk) 01:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

If you include Kosovo then Serbs in Serbia are approximately 65% of the total population, without Kosovo 83%.iadrian (talk) 09:24, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Netherlands

Number of Serbs in the Netherlands is overestimated. Dutch Institute of statistics holds very specific data on 1st and 2nd generation of immigrants and for whole of the former Yugoslavia, the number does not reach 100.000 let alone 180.000 mentioned in this article. Anyone with common sense living in Holland knows that these numbers are simply not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.116.228.145 (talk) 00:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Brazil

802,000 Serbs in Brazil? Come on, this is a joke, right? The Serbian Wikipedia says about 2000. So I changed that. --80.133.188.228 (talk) 10:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

That is inaccurate and erroneous, the estimated numbers of Serbs are 50,000 to 150,000. The "official" count of only 2,000 Serbs are in Bolivia known to attracted Serbian immigration for half a century, because Brazil ranks in the top 10 countries with the most Serbians living overseas. Now about the 800,000 Brazilians reportedly being of Balkan or Slavic descent, not entirely are Serbs or from Serbia itself. There are over 100,000 estimated Serbs in Argentina, although the Montenegrins and Croatians are more numerous in that country. The listing of Serb population worldwide is incomplete and needs better organization, someone put in 5 more countries on that list and the newly included info. isn't showing on the page. + Mike D 26 (talk) 08:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Bosnia and Herzegovina

There aren't 1,711,576 Serbs living in Bosnia. [[1]] Following the latest release from the Republika Srpska government, there are 1,430,000~ Serbs living in Bosnia. A 300,000 increase of population is highly impracticable seeing as ~3,000-4,000 Serbs have been leaving Bosnia since the year 2003. Kalesija (talk) 19:54, 19 December 2009 (EST)

Montenegro

Montenegrins

Some remarks about Montenegrins section:

• 1First off, the article says that all Montenegrins were historically part of the Serbian nation, which is untrue.
• 2The independence movement did not start in late 20th century, considering the fact that Montenegro (under names of Doclea, Zeta, and later as Principality and Kingdom of Montenegro) has a centuries-old history of statehood.
• 3Not some, but all Montenegrin who declare Montenegrin, rather than Serb nationality, consider themselves a separate Montenegrin nation.
• 4"Supported by Croats and Bosniaks they won independence" - there is no evidence how particular national groups voted on the referendum, so this would be original research, which is not the best way to gain info for wiki articles.
• 5The majority that won the referendum on independence was 55,4%, so it is not relative, but absolute majority (note the difference between the two).
• 6Montenegro and Serbia were seldom ruled by the same people, since the Montenegrin dynasties (Houses of Vojislavljević, Balšić, Crnojević and Petrović) did not rule the Serbian country, and vice versa.
• 7One more thing, Montenegrins mostly speak Montenegrin language, while the Serbs in Montenegro declare Serbian as their native language, although that is more of a political chice than the linguistical one.

Hence, I am putting a disputed tag on this section. Sideshow Bob 10:19, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Norway

Correct number of Serbs is given here http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/00/minifakta_en/en/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.68.209 (talk) 01:15, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

You mean the number of Serbs in Norway? The number that is in the article should be correct, just got awful big all the sudden. Adrian (talk) 21:59, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Of course in Norway, that was mine comment. what kind of comment is this "just got awful big all the sudden"???... number is not correct have a look the link and there u'll find right number 2807 in year 2010 (source SSB, Norway) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.16.226.251 (talk) 12:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The number representing the total number of Serbs in the whole world just got awful big(font size) all the sudden(see other articles about other nations). I have looked at the link you presented but I can`t manage to find any information regarding this matter. Can you please direct me how to find it on this link ? Thank you. Adrian (talk) 13:12, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

ok. first click here http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/00/minifakta_en/en/

   then, 3. Demographics, health and crime
   and finally, Immigrant population and Norwegian-born to immigrant parents

would be nice to have so much serbs here in norway, but it is not true —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.16.226.251 (talk) 20:49, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. I found the data but it is a little confusing. There are 2 numbers for Serbia and Montenegro , 7 580 and 9 064, which one is about the total number of Serbs in Norway? Adrian (talk) 22:15, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I see that the number already present in the article has no reference which means it is probably incorrect. Adrian (talk) 22:21, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Hey can you help me with number of Serbs in Norway? I don`t know which data is correct, 7 580 or 9 064? Thank you.Adrian (talk) 17:57, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Immigrants and Norwegian-born to immigrant parents for 2008, 2807 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.189.58.98 (talk) 19:55, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I believe that you have changed number of serbs from 19.000 to 9.064. well, I guess you don't want to see numbers on the official webpage of Statistics of Norway. Number 9.064 clearly refer to year 1995 not to 2007 and for 2008 there are given two numbers; for Immigrant population 2.302 and for Immigrants and Norwegian-born to immigrant parents 2.807. I really wondering how some of you guys got the rights to edit wikipedia ?!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.68.189 (talk) 07:04, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Afghan British (contains proposal for deletion of the British Serbs article). Badagnani (talk) 04:55, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Infobox Size

I just reverted one vandal who changed numbers in the Infobox, and in doing so I noticed that the Infobox data has 35 regions. Please note that the template used has a maximum of 31 regions, and is not changeable. Perhaps someone would like to re-structure the data to accommodate all the data?  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 21:18, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Dustin in the coolest kid alive —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.66.198.224 (talk) 17:16, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Luzic Serbs?

I believe a small Serbo-Austrian community exists in the town of Rust (Luzic) Burgenland, Austria. They have Slavonian-Serb ancestors whom migrated into Austria in the 16th century to escape the Ottoman Turks invasion of Slavonia (Croatia)/Northern Serbia. There isn't any mention nor an article devoted to the Austrian/Luzic Serbs, although an article of Estereicher, Bosnian-Austrians is available. If any chance the category broadly includes Luzic Serbs, but Germanization has nearly replaced the cultural identities of multi-generational Serbs living in Austria-Hungary. I checked out Wikipedia articles on Slavic peoples in Austria: Carinthian Slovenes and Burgenland Croats in case there was (but isn't any) references to Luzic Serbs or Serbian migration to Austria. +Mike D 26 (talk) 12:05, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Tribes of Serbia

native Thracian, Dacian and Illyrian tribes. Celtic tribes in the 3rd century BC, Roman colonization, Avar and Slav settlements. - signed by anon IP

Correct, the ancestors of Serbs and other Balkan peoples did originate from the Dacians or Illyrians. The Greeks via the ancient province of Macedonia to the south and the Goths or other east Germanic tribes have crossed the Sava and Danube rivers in what was then Roman Pannonia or Bakovina. I believe the Slavic Serbs have some Greek and Gothic ancestors in addition to the Celts, Romans and Magyars. The Greeks introduced the Eastern Orthodox church in Serbia after the great schism from the Roman Catholic church in the 1000's from the predominant Byzantine Greek influence about a millennia ago. + Mike D 26 (talk) 08:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Well considering the Serbs came from west of Germany as a people, that much would seem obvious. 99.236.221.124 (talk) 18:06, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Reply

• 1: It is true, All the dynasties of "Montenegro" ruled the principality as a "Serb" state. The Njegos-Petrovic's, probably what Montenegrins are most proud of and consider "Montenegrin" were self spoken ethnic Serbs, and claiming that they were advocating a separate nation to that of the Serbian is complete BS, you can read the Mountain wreath, or see the majority of literature from Duklja. Oh, and throughout the 19th century, Montenegro was a Nation-state of the Serbs.
• 2:It started with the Christmas Uprising 1919. All dynasties of Duklja-Zeta were Serbian, that is a fact, the Montenegrin identity did not exist at the time, only the word "Montenegro" comes into time in the 15th century. Duklja itself emerged from a Serbian zhupanate (region) after brief independence from the Byzantine Empire in 10th century.
• 3:The term "Montenegrins" is in this case a regional affiliation of ethnic Serbs, such as Sumadians, Bosnians, Herzegovinians etc. the term came into national affiliation only after communism and Tito had come to power.
• 4:" Ulcinj municipality, an ethnic Albanian centre, voted strongly in favour of independence (88.50%). The regions bordering Albania and Kosovo that have mostly Bosniak, Muslim and Albanian population, were heavily in favour of independence (78.92% in Plav, 91.33% in Rožaje)"
• 5:relative majority
• 6:The first ruler of Duklja, Petar Gojnikovic, is a Vlastimirovic, the descendants of the Serbian archont, and i can make a hundred more...
• 7:Wrong. 63.49% of the total population speaks Serbian. Serbian is now a minority language in Montenegro but it is spoken by the majority.

The people of Duklja were called Serbs, Dukljans, Triballi, Dalmatians, even Croats by medieval sources. At least until recently, few historians would doubt that Dukljians were part of 'Serbdom'. However, middle age 'states' like Duklja/ Zeta and Raska/Serbia were dynastic realms and not nation-states like in modern times. What is undeniable is the religious, linguistic and culural similarities and the dynastic relations which linked the two regions. They were like two 'power centres' for the southern west Balkan Slavs. Hxseek (talk) 03:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

hahaha what imagination... Sources with mention of Doclea were only saying about the Croats and Docleats in Doclea. No Serbs. It was Red Croatia (Southern Croatia), as well as White Croatia was Western Croatia. Serbian mythology lives on and on. God help us. 89.172.88.166 (talk) 12:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, Skylitzes calls Voislav 'Ruler of Serbs'. The early modern, western scholar, Daniel Farlati, considered Duklja as one of the Serb statelets. How would you link a Byantine chronicler and an Italian historian with "Serbian mythology " ? Hxseek (talk) 09:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Typical Greater Serbian metathesis!!! Vojislav lived in the 12th century, there was no Doclea anymore. And Skylitzes was already dead. Farlati's referrence is a Holy Spirit? Or maybe someone like Deretić? This article is full of lies, like that stupid map with "Serbian lands". Serbian lands? What is that if not Serbian mythology? Only sick nationalists are writing here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.148.232 (talk) 09:56, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Famous Serbs

Can we please include Rushka Bergman and link to her page? She is a Fashion Editor of Italian L'Uomo Vogue and Vogue Italia, as well as former Personal Stylist to Michael Jackson and alumni of the University of Belgrade Faculty of Economics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.39.127.198 (talk) 17:50, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Is she of Serbian descent? iadrian (talk) 09:27, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm a Serb, and I've never heard for her in my life. So, I wouldn't say she is famous Serb. Vanjagenije (talk) 10:44, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Ivo Andric

OK, Tesla was a Serb, i'll give u that, but Ivo Andric was ethnicly Croat! So why do u keep putting him where he doesn't belong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.202.117 (talk) 23:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Even so, Andrić declared himself a Serb. --Prevalis (talk) 03:28, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Isnt it that Tesla was an ethnic Serb living in Croatia, Andric was an ethnic Croat living in Serbia? 124.186.73.222 (talk) 03:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Andrić was born in ethnic Croat catholic family in Bosnia. He wrote in both Croatian and Serbian language and made tribute to the both cultures. But it is pretentious to call him a Serb. If you wanna be accurate you can call him Yugoslav, Yugoslav orientated Croat or or Yugoslav who was born Croat but call him a Serb is just wrong and isn't up to wikipedia standards...Greetings from Croatia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.22.34 (talk) 13:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Shut up you st*?=d id+-t Ivo Andrić maybe was from a catholic family and yes he was a Croat but he declared himself a Serb and I think he is a Serb. I don't see why we (croats) try to make him look as a Croat when he declared the opposite, I myself think of him as a SERB because he gave up his Croatian ethnicity and degraded himself to a Serb, so if you put him on your image of famous Serbs, I and every other normal croat will not say anything of that, because when I asked everyone what do they think of Andrić they said that he was a SERB. Carib canibal (talk) 11:42, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Andrić was neither a "Serb" nor a "Croat," but A Yugoslav. Paperoverman (talk) 12:32, 2 April 2009 (EST)

Lol,,,. I know that the discussion happened a long time ago, but it doesn`t matter how Ivo Andric declared himself, that doesn`t change the fact that he was of Croat, Serbian, or any other EX-YU ethnicity.iadrian (talk) 09:21, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Ivo Andric was a great, wise man, Nobel prize holder for literacy. He was citizen of the world. You still argue about stupid things. Wake up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.66.164.189 (talk) 13:23, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Native???

Quote: "Serbs (Serbian: Срби, Serbian Latinic: Srbi pronounced [ˈsr̩biː]) are a native Balkan South Slavic ethnic group."

How come that Serbs are a native to Balkan, when it's a common fact that Slavs migrated to Balkan region in the 7't century?... If here is taken on consideration the genetic material of Serbs then we can easily say that Americans are native to the North American continent because they assimilated native Indians so that in this way they can be considered native of Americas!!!yllbardh 02:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yllbardh (talk • contribs)

It is considered "native" because they live there a long time. Not native people are considered nowdays only ethnic groups that emigrated recently, in the last 200 years, for example Romanians in Italy,Spain, etc... Another example, Turks, well-known fact that they migrated from Asia but they are considered native today. Adrian (talk) 10:01, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

So according to you Americans can as well be considered as natives of North America...lol...yllbardh 15:57, 24 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yllbardh (talk • contribs)

Not according to me but to the general practice on Wikipedia. Adrian (talk) 05:36, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

A native is really anyone who is born in a specific area or country where that individual or group of people continue to live. So, while those very first Serbs in the 7th century weren't native to the Balkans, their children and the generations born after certainly were and are. Thus, Serbs today are native to the Balkans. Buttons (talk) 04:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Number for Serbs in Serbia without Kosovo

My first notion here is that dispelling all your suspicions about number of Serbs in Serbia with and without Kosovo is promptly needed. According to the 2002. census conducted in Serbia excluding Kosovo,there were 6,212,838 Serbs (82.86 %) of 7,498,001 inhabitants. When Kosovo is included the number of inhabitants is put at 9.5 million,among which 6.4 million Serbs (around 200 thousands of Kosovo Serbs included) or 67 % of whole population. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lookey34 (talk • contribs) 11:04, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Infobox gives a bad impression

The infobox here, one of the first things a reader sees, gives a rather bad first impression of Serbian society. There's only one woman among the famous Serbs in the infobox, which of course will lead the reader to wonder whether the position of women in Serbiabn society is that bad? If there are famous Serbian women, and I am sure they are, I would strongly suggest making sure that at least 25%-50% of the famous persons featured with pictures in the infobox are female. The current infobox leaves the reader wondering about how equal Serbian society is, and that is probably not what anyone wants the infobox to do.Jeppiz (talk) 13:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, Monica Seles should be amongst the list.

Inaccurate image?

File:Europe 814.jpg has generated discussion on its talk page for being accurate. I would cite that it shows Serbian population extending into southern Greece. This is bound to generate heated debate at some point. It also seems to show ethnic and political distribution at the same time. Can we take it down for a different image? --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 18:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Ruđer Bošković

I'm not really sure what does Ruđer Bošković do among all those Serbs in infobox, when he was a Croat Catholic priest? Neither Ivo Andrić...if he is Serb, than Nikola Tesla is Croat...or you will say that even Pope himself is Serb? :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.142.122.204 (talk) 18:15, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Ruder Boskovic is an ethnic Serb. He just happened to be a Catholic priest. His name and family all suggest he was clearly an ethnic Serb.

History of Serbs

The basic name, Serboi, originates in the works of Tacitus, Plinius and Ptolemy in the 1st and 2nd centuries, describing a people living north of the Caucasus. Following the migration into Central Europe, Serbs established a state called Sorbia (Belasrbia - White Serbia) in the 5th century. The term White Serbia (White Rus/White Ruthenia, Belarus) is connected with Iranic word-side system because of their Sarmatian heritage, as Sarmatians were indo-European proto-Iranic branch of people who used colors as world sides: white designated the west, red the south, green the east, and black the north. Part of Sarmatian and Scythian tribes settled at present day Ukraine/Russia around river Tanais (river Don). The historian Ptolemy identifies the Serboi as a tribe who lived north of the Caucasus, and other sources identify the Serboi as an Alan tribe in the Volga-Don steppe in the 3rd century. Some historians argue that the arrival of the Huns on the European steppe forced a portion of Alans previously living there to move northwest into the land of Venedes, possibly merging with Western Balts there to become the precursors of historic Slav nations. Their arrival in the Balkans is thought to have happened in the sixth century A.D., when Serbs settled among the other Slavic tribes that settled there a century earlier and mixed with them forming a medieval Serbian nation. Some of the White Serbs did not leave and their descendants are known as Sorbs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Studiesad (talk • contribs) 01:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

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How about including some more famous sportspeople such as Savicevic, Mihaijlovic or tennis player Monica Seles or basketball players Sasha Vujacic, Nenad Kristic and Peja Stojakovic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.211.88 (talk) 09:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Infobox image

The new infobox image (now part of the Template:Serbs infobox) is pretty dubious for following reasons:

1. It was not discussed at the talk pagae, and such an imporatnt edit must be discussed and consensus reached. The previous image was put on discussion and nobody complained. (See Talk:Serbs/Archive 6#New Infobox Picture.)
2. It is to large, and has too many photos. The article on Greeks for example, has only five pictures, althought I guess there are more famous Greeks than Serbs. The article on Jews has only four pictures, and Jews are one of the oldest peoples in the world.
3. It includes images of some people who's Serbian origin is prety much disputed, as Ruđer Bošković who is also included in Croats infobox image.
4. It includes image of some Dimitrije Mitrinović of whom I never heard, althought I know Serbian history pretty much, and whose importance is debatable.
5. It includes image of Novak Đoković who was World's No2 tennis player at his best, but does not include images of Ana Ivanović or Jelena Janković who were both World No1 players.

I propose the old picture be restored before the consensus is reached for a new one. What do You say? Vanjagenije 10:48, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Hm, very well, Vanjagenije. Good reasoning. Well, i propose these persons. Milutin Milanković, Nikola Tesla, Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, Vuk Karadžić, and Saint Sava. Milanković and Tesla for obvious reasons, one of the most important peoples in scientific history of mankind, Stefan Uroš as possibly the greatest Serbian ruler, king and emperor, Vuk for his importance to Serbs, and Sava, as patron saint of Serbs, and founder of Serbian religion. What do you say? P.S. Who the heck is Dimitrije Mitrinović? :) :) --WhiteWriter ^speaks 11:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, forgot to write, i saw that former picture, and i think that it may be better not to include Nadežda and Karadjordje, but, we will see. --WhiteWriter ^speaks 11:07, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

And once more. Andrić and Kusturica. It wasn't controversial to put Andrić in Croat infobox, so it will not be problem to put it here also. And Kusturica is out greatest film director of all time, so... Maybe we should place them insted those two from above. Or, we can just remove those questionable from the present image, and add those hwo are missing. That is good idea also. --WhiteWriter ^speaks 11:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I remember that in 2008 I tried to put Kusturica's picture in the infobox, but it was promptly removed by User:Pokrajac with an explanation that living people should not be in the infobox. (see: User talk:Vanjagenije/Archive 1#Slika). Vanjagenije 11:43, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I suggest we have 15 or 18 photos (3 rows); Tesla, Njegos, Tsar Dusan, Vuk and Saint Sava, and living people: Kusturica, Ceca, Vlade Divac and Novak.--92.32.41.250 (talk) 13:28, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I dont think that there is any logic in Pokrajac view. If they are living, they are not Serbs, or what? IP proposition is ok. So, should we create a list? --WhiteWriter ^speaks 16:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Living people should not be in the infobox. That is so simple. --Pockey (talk) 20:45, 28 October 2010 (UTC)