Talk:List of Hollows in Bleach

Incorrectly Romanized Names

I have realized, like alot of other people, that many names are incorrectly romanized, or are using their commonly mispelled names.

Here are the names I have found with their correct names after them.

• Barragan Luisenbarn = Baraggan Luisenbarn
• Nelliel Tu Odelschwank = Nelliel Tu Oderschvank
• Nnoitora Jiruga = Nnoitra Jiruga
• Grimmjow Jeagerjaques = Grimmjow Jaegerjaquez
• Szayelaporro Grantz = Szayel Aporro Granz
• Rudobone = Rudobōn
• Sonido = Sonído (An attack)
• Shawlong Qufang = Shawlong Kūfang
• D-Roy Linker = Di Roy Linker
• Ilfort Grantz = Yylfordt Granz
• Nakim Greendina = Nakeem Greendina
• Edorad Leones = Edrad Liones
• Dordoni Alessandro Del Socacchio = Dordonii Alessandro Del Socacchio

These are the correct spelling on the Bleach Wiki, and therefore are the most common and accurate. Please take renaming the characters into these into consideration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.69.35.83 (talk) 00:05, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

For all of the "misspellings" you listed that have appeared in the English Shonen Jump, they are not to be romanized. I would imagine that (haven't learned every rule of Wikipedia yet) we are to use the English names since this is the English Wiki, afterall. For all names that have yet to be mentioned in the English serialization, there is no way to tell what they will be, and I don't know how it would be decided which spelling to use. Spindori (talk) 01:37, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Agree with Spin, this is the English Wiki so we use what Viz uses. Its the official translation whether people like it or not. For the ones who have not had their names within Bleach yet, i.e. Nelliel, then we use official merchandise, which has her name as "Odelschwank". As For Baraggan, I put this up in this Talk to see what people thought about changing it, and it looks like "Official Gum Cards" aren't seen as much of a source.

Edit - The Bleach wiki is well known for added speculation in its articles, so to call that place "accurate" is slightly off. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 16:53, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, Nelliel's name has been declared officially to be Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck, so we can take her off of the list. As for Grimmjow, this image clarifies the actual spelling of his name. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.69.35.83 (talk) 03:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

The ones to be followed are the English ones like how we use Soul Reaper instead of shinigami.Tintor2 (talk) 19:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Or how about this we use how the author spelled them because he is the author. And anyways most people are going to mispronounce these names even if you do use "viz" ranslation. And for the record your romatinizing by changing it to be more "english". If you don't like what I say to bad I've wanted to say it awhile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.29.4.150 (talk) 21:47, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I have corrected some of the names. You cannot say the Bleach wiki is well known for adding speculation. I am a member of the policies and standards committee over there. We have a very strict speculation policy. Head over there if you want the rest of the corrected names. All names came from official sources such as covers drawn by Kubo and the Masked databook. There is no speculation over there and if you see any, let us know and we will immediately remove it. Also, you should not use the word Soul Reaper. Shinigami does not mean soul reaper. It means Death God or Death Spirit. Viz came up with Soul Reaper as they though it sounded better.150.212.50.52 (talk) 17:42, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

May I ask you to explain the Wikipedia policy which states that an author's decisions outwithstand regional ones. I am aware only of WP:EN. Until then, I will maintain the names with the English Shonen Jump (magazine)'s naming decisions, and the Japanese will be noted. Spindori (talk) 21:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

So let me get this straight. You do not go by what an author names their characters but rather you go by what they get unofficially romanized as? That is stupid. Tite Kubo decides how his characters are named and how they are romanized. Viz, who does the english distribution, has not chosen to update the names as they felt that it would confuse readers. Every single one of there names is a translation but a mistranslation of Viz's part. Why would you keep a mistranslation? I can upload Kubo's covers with the correct romanizations if you would like. Kubo clearl intended for his characters to be named Coyote Starrk, Baraggan Luisenbarn, Tia Harribel, Ulquiorra Cifer, Nnoitra Gilga, Grimmjow Jaquejaquez, Zommari Reroux, Szayelapporo Granz, Aaroniero Arruruerie and Yammy Llargo. Some of these were revealed on covers and some were revealed in the latest character book. Do you not acknowledge that Masked exists either?

Edit- this comes from your own policy

Names not originally in a Latin alphabet, as with Greek, Chinese or Russian, must be transliterated into characters generally intelligible to literate speakers of English. Established systematic transliterations (e.g. Hanyu Pinyin and IAST) are preferred. Nonetheless, do not substitute a systematically transliterated name for the common English form of the name, if there is one; thus, use Tchaikovsky or Chiang Kai-shek even though those are unsystematic.

The name changes I have proposed are the transliterated versions. They were converted from Japaneese to a romanization. You are using the English form. According to this policy it needs to be replaced. Therefore the character names should be as I have said. If you want the correct names, go to Bleach Wiki and search for Bleach Wiki:Masked Project. That is where we have the correct forms for many of the Hollows and Arrancars. Other than that the Espada pages are all correct aside from I believe Yammy's which we are in the process of doing. --150.212.50.163 (talk) 00:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Just dropping a link for the Manual of Style on Japanese articles. Prior to that section on transliteration, this bit is there which applies to naming within the prose: "The {title of an article} should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources". To re-iterate what others have said, this is an English Wikipedia and if there are official English names given for the characters we must use those names regardless of any discrepancy that arises. Just tag a little note saying the name is spelled differently in the original medium with appropriate sourcing backing it up. Remember to be neutral. VIZ may or may not have translated the names correctly but they hold the license and they pump out the official English names so we use them. Fox816 (talk) 06:45, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Except that viz is not a reliable source as they are known to have troubles with translations and technically what are on the page right now are not English names. They are unofficial Romanizations. That is what you seem to understand. They are all romanizations of the japaneese, translated by one group. Just because Viz is the english distributor does not mean we should put false information on articles. If we are going by most common in the English language we must go by what the scanlators say and the scanlators have most of what I have been saying. The fact here is that these names are not English but are just incorrect Romanizations which were fixed upon the release of masked--150.212.50.163 (talk) 07:15, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Keep in mind Wiki strives for verifiability and not truth. Read again what a reliable source is and reconsider your statement that the published official English source for the manga is not a reliable source. If there are discrepancies than add it into the prose and source them properly. Please also remember that no editor can use copyright violations as sources. The scanlations (there seem to be a lot, are they all the same?) can't be linked to whatsoever so our verifiability is none if we go that route. Fox816 (talk) 22:34, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I still maintain that Viz is not reliable. They are known for being bad with Romanziations. If you would like. I have scans of the MASKED Databook in its original japaneese with the character names officially romanized. If verifiability is what you strive for, then what better way to verify something than to have the author's original content. Masked would be the most official source for all of this information as well as the chapter covers. I also have scans of those. Each chapter cover is a picture of a character with their officially romanized name drawn and written by Tite Kubo himself. I can show you all each an every one of those. Viz is the most unreliable due to them being so far behind in their released volumes. Has Viz even released the Bootleg in english? And yes, all the scanlators, Ju-Ni, Maximum 7, C-Net, Sleepyfans, Binktopia and others use the names I have pointed out as they come from Tite Kubo--150.212.50.163 (talk) 01:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The Masked names can be noted in the prose as an mention of a differing romanization. Regardless of your feelings about VIZ, they are to be considered a reliable source for the English names due to them pumping out the works itself. We're following policy and guidelines here. The most common English names for these characters are the ones set by the English manga and anime. We have the sources to back them up. As you say, we also have proper sourcing for a differing ("more accurate") romanization. That can all be included in the prose and would improve the article overall. Your asking to get all of the most common official English names to be changed out to ones more common in Japan or the least common in English. Even if ignorance can be invoked, there's still a middle road that improves the article and that's by using both names. Just add the info in and cite it like everything else. We can't delete the Viz names because they're "wrong". Just as your arguing for the correct romanizations, the VIZ ones are as justifiable if not even more so. Fox816 (talk) 06:36, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I will try this one last time. Here is how japanese works. It is written in Kanji. To get an english name from there, you romanize the kanji. You do not translate it. Romanization can be difficult but there is only one real correct form. Viz is using out of date romanizations that were confirmed by the author of the series to not be the real romanizations. I implore you one last time, please change the names to their correct versions or at the very least link all of them to The Bleach Wiki so that people can see the real names for these characters. People coming to this page are most likely to not be using Viz but rather the scanlators which use the japanese media. They deserve to know the truth--150.212.72.23 (talk) 07:30, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Whether you believe the rominization of the names are "wrong" or not is irrelevant. The Bleach articles will use the names as translated by Viz Manga in accordance with Wikipedia's policies because these will be the names used by reliable English-language sources. The Bleach Wikia is not a reliable source and neither are scanlations. —Farix (t | c) 13:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC

See that is the thing, the names you have are not translated you do not translate japanese, you romanize the kanji. The translation is different. The one I know of is Jushiro Ukitake. That is the romanization of the kanji, the translation of the kanji is fourteenth son. According to you, you use the translations so Ukitake's name would have to be changed to fourteenth son. Captain Fourteenth Son, doesn't sound right does it. You get Jushiro Ukitake by romanizing the kanji. I have already shown in your policies how my change is needed. Also, how is the bleach wiki not a reliable source? We use the japanese media instead of Viz so we are more reliable than wikipedia. You guys still don't know that ichigo has lost his powers because you refuse to use the weekly chapter. All of our information is referenced and is updated to the most recent chapter. All information is updated after the release of each volume and its verifiable since you guys don't care for the truth. We have the correct romanizations AS WRITTEN BY THE AUTHOR OF THE SERIES. I would think he would constitute as a reliable source--150.212.72.23 (talk) 17:31, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

No wikia or wiki clasifies as a reliable as like wikipedia, its edited by users. Actually, the info regarding Ichigo's loss is actually but that's completely out of context. In contrast to wikia, here references have to be specific so that any common reader and not just fans can find the info from the series.Tintor2 (talk) 17:58, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Two things, so you admit that wikipedia is not a reliable source, and 2, references on Bleach wiki are very specific, they go Bleach man, Chapter #, page #. You cannot get more specific than that. Also I am going to let you in on a little secret, Bleach wiki is not all that editable vy anyone, its cannot be edited unless you have an account and all revisions are checked by admins and members of the policy and standards committee. If anything is wrong it is taken down immediately.--150.212.72.23 (talk) 18:02, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

When did I say wikipedia was reliable? I think one of wikipedia's selfnotes is that it is not reliable. Actually, here we have to get more specific because wikipedia covers more things that Bleach and so we have to source the exact books, isbns, authors, publishers, page, etc. However, this discussion is really out-of-context. If you don't like wikipedia, then why discuss this?Tintor2 (talk) 18:05, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

My point is that I can have all that information, We have all the japanese volumes on bleach wiki with their isbn number, the author obviously being tite kubo and we have the page numbers. All I am saying is that these names are out of date. Viz itself is out of date because it does not regularly release volumes. Some of these are even wrong according to Viz. Tia Harribel's name in viz is Tai Hallibel not Tia Halibel. Viz uses the names that all the scanlators originally got wrong as well and stuck with them for some reason. Then MASKED came out and corrected all of them in clearly printed out romanizations. Wikipedia should strive for the most up to date, accurate, verifiable information. Viz is out of date and not accurate--150.212.72.23 (talk) 18:17, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Then this is more out of topic (considering you keep mentioning another site). If you have an issue with the guidelines, then discuss it in the project.Tintor2 (talk) 18:21, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

How is this out of topic. The topic is incorrectly romanized names and here I am saying you have incorrectly romanized names--150.212.72.23 (talk) 18:25, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Zwehänder?

It was stated on halibell's summary that her sword when resurrected is a zweihänder. Let me stress this: not even once she is shown using the sword with two hands. I already changed it to 'pata' which is a hindu sword pretty much like her weapon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.87.111.100 (talk) 05:22, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Since she is the 3rd Espada, one would assume she could wield a Zwehänder-sized sword with one hand. Ichigo can wield Zangetsu with one hand, if that's any indication that the weapon's size in meaningless. 75.157.110.77 (talk) 22:29, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Creation and Conception

Don't Hollows had Creation and Conception? Didn't Title Kubo said anything about them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cococrash11 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's Helmet

If you look at his helmet/mask, it changes between when he is introduced and his death. On the last page of Chapter 190, his hemelt is covered in cracks, but if you look at it in Chapter 340, it doesn't have any cracks at all. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 04:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

He is also a goat. In the anime his eyes are colored and shaped EXACTLY like a goats, he has horns like a goat (though longer) and legs like a goat (though his legs are thinner than human bone). Not to mention the black and white skin in patterns very characteristic of goats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.178.100.125 (talk) 20:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

How is that even relevant to the first post? And, no, he is not a goat, nor is his Resurrección. --173.69.37.230 (talk) 00:38, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

If anything, he is either a bat Hollow or a caricature of an Abrahamic demon. 173.180.64.146 (talk) 09:02, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

His Resurrección, Murcielago, which means bat in Spanish, means that he is a bat. 173.69.37.230 (talk) 22:09, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Yep. He's a bat and he's a demon. (Technically all Hollows are demons, but that's digressing) His ressurection's name, like the names of the other Arrancar's ressurections, has a double meaning. It may mean "bat" in Spanish, but it also means "giant black-winged demon" in Japanese. Therefore, he is both. Case closed. 207.216.208.68 (talk) 02:10, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Move to 'List of Hollows in Bleach'

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

---

List of hollows in Bleach → List of Hollows in Bleach — Since "Hollow" is capitalized in the context of this article, it would be fitting to capitalize it in the page name. Spindori (talk) 18:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I find it strange that "Hollow" and "Arrancar" have their first letters capitalized in this article, whereas said letters are lower-cased in the main Bleach article. I'm not sure why there is inconsistency, but apparently, the 'standardized archive' in the main Bleach article discussion page notes that editors should keep the letters lower-cased. In my opinion, it should be one or the other and consistent throughout Bleach-related articles. Any thoughts?

Kilkia123 (talk) 00:13, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I started that and have been meaning to capitalize them in the other Bleach articles too, but never got around to it. Sorry it caused a problem. Though I have not read the archives regarding capitalization, in Shonen Jump (magazine) and official Bleach sites I visited, "Hollow," "Arrancar," "Soul Reaper" and related words are all capitalized. I would think we follow the publishers' usage, over others. Spindori (talk) 21:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Kilkia123 (talk) 15:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Aaroniero Arruruerie

The article states that Aaroniero Arruruerie was the last of the originsl Espada. While I agree that it said so in the manga at the time, since then Tite Kubo has revealed that Barragan and (in the anime at least) Harribel were also part of the original Espada. Might I suggest that it be changed from " is the last of the first-generation Espadas" to " is one of the last of the first-generation Espadas". 207.216.208.68 (talk) 02:04, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

This type of change can be done quickly and undramatically if explained properly in the Edit Summary. Next time something similar is noticed, Be bold! and go ahead with the alteration, it will be much appreciated. Thanks for the input to improve the article. Spindori (talk) 01:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC).

This was never stated at all. All that was shown was that Aizen recruited Baraggan and Harribel into the Espada. It was never said that they were a part of the original Espada. Do not make things up--150.212.50.52 (talk) 18:28, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

The Unforgivens

Tite Kubo released a special promo chapter for the Hell Chapter movie showing Shirrin (the movie's villain) fighting Szayelaporro Grantz and Aaroniero Arruruerie after encountering them in Hell after the latter two were killed by the Soul Reapers. Should it be mentioned that (at least some of) the Espada were banished to Hell after being killed rather than entering the cycle of reincarnation? 207.216.200.81 (talk) 03:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)