User talk:Frickative

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To-do list

To do

1. Collab. on Santana Lopez (up to GA nom)
2. User:Frickative/Sahira Shah - Ibid, to DYK nom
3. "Song Beneath the Song" - construct to GA level
4. Sue Sylvester - finish expansion, take to GAN
5. Raquel Watts - ibid.
6. "Sexy" - Ibid.
7. User:Frickative/Sandbox10 - Finish "Hearts and Minds" re-write, partic. 'Production' from DVD commentary
8. List of songs in Glee (season 1) - Thorough check of references etc., request peer review
9. User:Frickative/List of EastEnders episodes (2009) - Add January to August
10. User:Frickative/Holby Blue - Paraphrase long quotes in 'Development', expand 'Cast and characters', add series two storylines to synopsis, find DYK hook for 5x expansion
11. Jac Naylor - All round expansion, possible double DYK hook with Holby Blue
12. Elliot Hope - Update, reference storylines, take to GAN
13. List of awards and nominations received by Holby City - Update table code per WP:ACCESS
14. List of awards and nominations received by Glee - Ditto
15. List of awards and nominations received by Spooks - Create (sandbox draft)
16. Casualty@Holby City - Thorough copy edit, prep for GAN
17. User:Frickative/Inspector Morse (TV series)
18. Andrea (The Walking Dead)
19. User:Frickative/List of awards and nominations received by The Walking Dead

Finn Hudson

Hey there, Frickative. Looks like our old thread got previously archived, so I started a new one. ;) With the announcements that the main three actors (Colfer, Michele, and Monteith) will be departing the show, I'm going to work on improving some of their character articles. Finn Hudson's is probably the worst out of all of them, which is weird because he's a pretty big character. I think I'm going to start that soon. I'll do some source digging tonight, do you think you could do a quick check and see if you might have some useful ones stored from circa 2009? That would help a lot, as the "Casting" section is generally the hardest. Also, I requested a second peer review for Kurt Hummel. I still feel a little burned from the last FAC, but I think I might want to take that back there eventually down the line. HorrorFan121 (talk) 21:33, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I'm glad you're taking on Finn, I think that article and Puck (Glee) are probably the weakest of the whole lot :D I've looked through my bookmarks and don't think I have anything useful, but I remember a tonne of early interviews where Cory Monteith repeated and repeated his casting story about sending in a tape of him drumming, being asked for a singing tape and doing REO Speedwagon. (See, I've read so many that the details are burned into my brain :p). So hopefully "Casting" shouldn't be as difficult as for some of the other characters. Good luck with Kurt - I don't blame you at all for feeling burned out, it's been far from a pleasant experience, but your perseverance is commendable :) Also, I'm really sorry I haven't collaborated on Santana yet. My internet connection has been really dodgy this month, and I'm about to have a busy fortnight, but I really, really do want to work on it when I'm able to. Frickative 13:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Mike Chang's pretty weak too, although in his case the Storylines section is far too long for any character, much less one who's had less screen time than Finn or Puck. (None of these three articles are C level yet, nor do they have much beyond their Storylines.) Finn and Puck could clearly use the love, though, given their importance. Frickative, I'm glad you're back on line again. HorrorFan121, I'm going to be kind of busy through the end of the month, but if you'd like me to take a look at anything, I'm happy to, and I can probably squeeze in some time here and there. Some changes are easy, but editing takes more time and effort. (And I do better printing it out if I really want to make cuts and move text around.) BlueMoonset (talk) 17:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

You know, I really shouldn't write things like that about Glee pages. The next thing I know, I'm looking at the Mike Chang page and editing on the screen; the storyline's halfway done (season one section), and while it could probably use more cuts, it is trimmed down by about 75 words. I'll try to finish it off soon, and fix the intro; someone else will have to get to the meat of the page before it can be upgraded to C status. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:06, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Okay. That sounds pretty easy enough to come by as he was a major character on the show when it first premiered. Puck (Glee) is another one I would like to eventually work on down the line, but I'm going to work on Finn first. I also started working on a small expansion to Rachel Berry to add to her "Casting" and "Characterization" sections. A lot of rumors have been coming out about a possibly spin-off for Kurt and Rachel in New York, which I think could possibly end up happening as they're both pretty popular and the Glee franchise is constantly expanding. [1] I think (glancing from it) this could be a pretty good source for Finn, so I'll start working on that soon.

BlueMoonset, if you could possibly look at Finn's "Storyline" section that could be great. I don't know if anybody has done any good copy-editing on it, but his article received the most unsourced additions in the past year from looking at it from time to time. Honestly, as for Mike Chang, I don't think there's much we can do. I just did a quick check on Google and didn't see much relating to the necessary sub-sections, such as "Casting" and "Characterization". Poor Mike. =/ HorrorFan121 (talk) 22:27, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Just posted edits for the first two paragraphs of Finn's Storyline. I'm afraid it expanded a bit; there were a few too many things left out for my taste. The third's a bit more complex: I figure that the football championship—heck, the entire second season mess of being kicked off and back on the team, the championship game itself, and then Finn going after Quinn afterward when she was in a relationship with Sam—it may not show Finn's best side, but it needs to be acknowledged. (I did change one ref; the Kurt/Finn/Burt scene was in "Theatricality", not "Laryngitis".)

We'll probably get more to work with re Mike once the third season's under way. But Karofsky...have you made any progress on the other sections? I just did a tiny touchup on the Storyline, and realized that not much has happened elsewhere. Is there a chance that the article could go live sometime in August? BlueMoonset (talk) 04:24, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Finn's storyline is finished, and I strongly suspect I went overboard. Admittedly, he's an important character, but I may have expanded a bit too much. I did borrow some of the prose for the football championship from the Karofsky storyline. It looks like the first paragraph is overlong, but that may be deceiving; it could be that later ones should be shorter. I thought about starting the second (Kurt/Burt/Carole) paragraph with Finn arranging Kurt's football tryout, but it seemed like a droppable detail. Anyone want to try editing the whole section down a bit, or should that wait for now? BlueMoonset (talk) 06:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Good work on trimming Mike Chang down :) I wouldn't worry too much about Finn being on the long side - 1,000 words is probably around the high-end of acceptable, and he is one of the most central characters. Once the third season starts, it may need pulling in a bit to accommodate new additions, but as the article's other sections are expanded, some elements may naturally alter anyway. I found a source which goes quite indepth on the ins and outs of Monteith's casting process, right down to who submitted his tape and how many hours he drove to audition, so hopefully that can be of some use! Frickative 15:09, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Crap! I forgot all about Karofsky's page. I'll get to work on that when I finish Finn Hudson. By the way, that's an excellent source Frick. Nice find. The "Storyline" section should look shorter once the whole article is completed, so I wouldn't worry about that. HorrorFan121 (talk) 16:56, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, you two. Glad Finn's Storyline's in reasonable shape, and I'll be looking forward to see Karofsky bloom after Finn does. I think I'll try to hit Puck's Storyline in the next few days. HorrorFan121, can you take a look at the actual/citable conversation on the Glee task force page? So far it's been me and Frickative; it'd be nice to have at least one other voice from the task force heard from on the matter before the thing gets archived. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:27, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

BTW, HorrorFan121, I think the Season 1/Season 2 division won't work for Finn without a major rewrite; the Kurt paragraph covers both seasons, and even the first paragraph ends with a mention of the second season. I'm about to make a minor fix to a sentence in Storylines, so I'll take the headers out then. If you think it's important, we can always divide the Kurt material in two, but I rather like how it's all together. I wonder if we should try to handle multi-season character storylines this way as a general rule. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:14, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, I do like keeping storylines together where possible/sensible, rather than sticking to a strictly chronological structure - Glee is all over the place at the best of times, so it probably helps keep things cohesive for readers less familiar with the subject. Frickative 03:25, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I can go undo the brackets right now. I hope I didn't end up reaching an edit conflict somewhere in there as I wasn't checking my watchlist to see your message here. Finn's "Casting" section looks pretty decent now and I'm currently looking up some stuff on the Rachel/Finn relationship and potential stuff to use for a "Characterization" section. By the way, I'll take a look at the discussion WP:GLEE and see if I can add my opinion to it. HorrorFan121 (talk) 03:46, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

No problem. I managed to fit in my storyline edits in between; I did have to be careful not to undo your edits (Show changes is a wonderful thing), and got in two minutes after your last edit, which removed those sections so I didn't have to. It looks to me like Finn's at least a C and well on his way to a B; the major piece not yet addressed is his singing: how much, which singles/albums, etc. Looking forward to seeing our thoughts on WP:GLEE. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:51, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

• Sorry to diverge from Finn for a moment - I cba to start a new section for something so minor - but HF, do you have any thoughts on using this source in Santana Lopez? I was looking for info on her costuming, and here Lou Eyrich says of "Vitamin D": "Santana's [dress] was BCBG Max Azria. This is the first time you’ve seen Santana not wearing her cheerleader uniform." Which is interesting, but, as someone points out in the comments, incorrect given that she was out of uniform in "The Rhodes Not Taken". Do you think it's better just ignored? Frickative 04:29, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

I think it could be something interesting to include because Santana's been primarily featured in her cheerleading outfit. I guess we can just insert the comment on it in the "Characterization" section, and I'm glad you're finally getting a chance to work on Santana! I had sort of put her article on the back burner for a bit. The article is pretty much complete, aside from the "Reception" section. Re: BlueMoonset- I would say it's a C right now, but once I expand on the "Characterization" and "Reception" sections it should be a B and on it's way to becoming a GA. HorrorFan121 (talk) 05:02, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

The entire quote doesn't have to be included, just the relevant portion; another possibility is adding context around it. Sure, Santana was out of her cheerleading outfit, but she just exchanged it for the standard group cowboy and blue costumes in the "Rhodes" performances. The "Vitamin D" performance was the first time she was shown in an individual outfit, even though it was, admittedly, part of a costuming "theme". I think it's important, if we know something's not strictly accurate in a quote, to make sure the facts are correctly stated in the article. BlueMoonset (talk) 12:04, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Did you read about this, Frickative? More of Ryan Murphy's ever changing mind. Haha. Michele, Colfer, and Monteith NOT Leaving HorrorFan121 (talk) 19:02, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I shouldn't laugh, but we seem to get played every time. It looks like the pages for Rachel and Finn need updating, and someone's already put in "New York" as Sam's last episode. Being the lazy type, if I edit those pages, I'll use the same TV Line links on the Season 3 page. I'm thinking that Sam and Mercedes should not be listed as significant others on each other's pages—something significant could have developed, but we have no evidence that it did—though I'm wondering how you deal with a one-season character in the second year of a three-or-more-season show. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:34, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

I did my best by Sam in his page and on Characters of Glee, and fixed my refs errors on Season 3; Sam and Mercedes are no longer significant others. (Mercedes is less significant for Sam than Santana is, in terms of relationship time, so I don't see how we can justify Mercedes if Santana is considered ineligible.) As for Finn and Rachel and Kurt, I'm going to let you two figure out how much you want to unwind, modify, or otherwise change the "it's their last season" paragraphs. Whether it's worth keeping the Gonzalez quote for Finn and Rachel, for example... BlueMoonset (talk) 04:58, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Harking back to the above, I've just done a complete revision of Puck, including divisions into first and second seasons, bringing it up to date, and probably making the first season too long...but I thought it was important to go into a bit more depth on his bullying and promiscuity. I'm pretty sure this article is even longer than Finn's; no doubt cuts will be made at some point...by someone other than me. :-) BlueMoonset (talk) 22:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the super slow reply (I'm averaging about one edit a day at the moment!) but ha, I did laugh at all the contradictory information that came out of Comic-Con. Definitely going to have to stock up on decent synonyms for "Murphy claimed/suggested/made up on the spot" going forward :p. I haven't been keeping track of my watch-listed articles very well, and haven't had chance to read the new "Storyline" section for Puck yet, but all the s3 updates I've seen by you, BlueMoonset, have looked good - kudos for keeping on top of it all! I definitely agree with not listing Sam/Mercedes as significant others (is a single-scene relationship a new record for Glee? Haha.) And thank you both for the comments on the Santana/clothing source - I'll hopefully get going on that article properly at the start of next week. Frickative 16:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

No need to apologize; you're busy through the end of the month, and we know it. As for Sam/Mercedes, it's sort of two scenes: Sam magically teleports across the stage at Nationals to give Mercedes a hug before teleporting back in time to take the group bow, so we know there's something there. :-) I've been managing to keep up with my own watchlist pretty well, though it's almost up to 100 Glee-related pages. Probably small change compared to the rest of you, but we seem to be getting a lot of unhelpful edits the past few days... Getting back to Finn, though: HorrorFan121, I was wondering whether the Casting and Creation section was stable, or if you were planning additional edits to it. I can see some smoothing I'd like to do, but it doesn't make sense to start work if you still have more changes to make. (Frickative, I'm not sure of the etiquette; are these three-way multi-topic conversations on Glee page edit plans okay, or is there another, preferred way of handling this?) BlueMoonset (talk) 03:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot about the teleporting hug, that was cute :) I think mass multi-strand discussions are fine - if we were all seriously focussing on one particular article, it would be better over at that article's talk page, but user talk allows for less formality. I sometimes wonder if we should discuss general plans over at WP:GLEE, in the hopes of attracting more participation, but seeing as the last thread there attracted nothing but tumbleweed, I guess it wouldn't make much difference. Frickative 15:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Misc. Glee topics (cont. from Finn Hudson)

Hmm..I think I'm done with Finn's "Casting and creation" section for now. I think we should leave the information about his departure there, but maybe throw in some stuff about news erupting about the three of them possibly staying? This show changes it's mind at the drop of the hat. Haha. HorrorFan121 (talk) 19:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, HorrorFan121. I'll try to take a look at "Casting and creation" this afternoon or tomorrow. I think there's a way to handle the news so that the Gonzalez material can stay, but to confirm the graduation and initial news of departure, while casting doubt on whether a permanent departure is actually in the cards. I have the impression that Falchuk tends to be a more accurate prognosticator regarding future events.

You don't know what you've unleashed, Frickative; here comes yet another strand. ;-) I've just done some clean-up at the Adam Anders page, and noticed that the person who created the page may not understand the notion of archiving in references. Virtually all the references have an "archive" component, but they appear to be the same URL as the original. Can either of you take a quick look and confirm? I can do the remaining work; I already updated a couple of them, but decided I should wait for confirmation that archiving is something else (like is done with the weekly music charts for some of the discography refs, since the full charts frequently aren't available after the original week). And another question: I noticed an edit being reverted the other day because Amazon was being used as a source for a DVD release date. Is Amazon not considered adequate, or only not adequate for certain circumstances? I know I've seen it being used for release dates and for track lists elsewhere (indeed, for DVD in question, though on another page); should this be enforced more broadly? Finally, I alphabetized the main Glee template and added back Don't Stop Believing, that British show that attempted to cash in on the show's success by setting up a "reality-TV" show-choir competition; it had gotten converted into a link to the iconic the Journey song's article. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:25, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps we could move the majority of the '"Everyone's fired!" "Now they're not!"' drama to a dedicated section of Glee (season 3), where we could go into full detail about it all? (The latest developments are even more hilarious.) And obviously keep a condensed summary in the Kurt/Finn/Rachel articles. I'm tentatively thinking that if this carries on building, there may be enough content to justify a separate article on the aborted spin-off and media reaction at some point.

You're spot-on about archiving - it tends to be done most often for pages that don't have static content, though it is generally good practice to help prevent linkrot, and is indeed a separate URL. The site I use to archive pages is webcitation.org, though there may be others. I think the best thing to do here is just remove all the parameters with duplicate URLs. Hm, that's the first I've heard about Amazon not being an acceptable source - I'm sure I used it several times to cite DVD release dates in Glee (season 1), which wasn't flagged up as problematic at its FL review. Probably best to check with the editor who reverted, in case there's been a recent guideline change. And good stuff with the template :) "Don't Stop Believing" was truly dire - I had hoped to work it up to GA at some point, but even the show's website has been pulled now, so most of the sources are defunct (a good case in favour of archiving!). Frickative 16:47, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, the more I consider it, the more I think there is enough material to base a spin-off article on. There are almost 500 GNews hits for Glee characters graduate and over 200 for Glee spin-off. I don't know what it would be titled, but I'm concerned that documenting it all in the season 3 article may weigh that page down with pre-production drama. Another couple of days and I'll be free to play about with it and see if it's worth pursuing. (I've also been toying with the idea of a character article for Holly Holliday, not to mention collabing on Santana and finally finishing off a lot of the s2 episode articles. Geeze, I think I've spent more time talking about Glee articles this summer than I have actually writing them!) Frickative 00:46, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to seeing the "finally finishing off a lot of the s2 episode articles" part, myself. Only 10 of 22 are GAs, with half a dozen each of B and C for the remaining. (I think one of them contained mostly Candyo32 material that you were holding off on nominating without Candyo32's approval, but maybe you should go ahead since it's been many weeks.) I know for creating new material, what's most interesting will get done more quickly—look at me and storyline creations and updates—but I think there's going to be a lot more noise about the pre-production stuff over the next couple of weeks until the cast reports on August 10, and the movie is released on August 12. After August 10, we'll start getting stories about new cast members, and more details on returning recurring ones, which I imagine will keep us hopping. In the meantime, I've updated the Anders article to eliminate the not-really-archive URLs, and also got rid of some duplicate full references; ref names are wonderful things... BlueMoonset (talk) 03:33, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

And speaking of the season two episode articles, I think I've found my next project: doing a new pass on the storylines for all 22 episodes. I was looking at a fix someone made to the "A Very Glee Christmas" storyline, and realized that the entire section was in rough shape. I think they can all use a review, even some of the GA articles. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:14, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Just figured out that the article waiting on Candyo32 for GA was for the "Comeback" episode. Maybe it'll be the one that gets us halfway to 22 episodes... BlueMoonset (talk) 05:20, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think we could do a future article pending on whether or not she will make future appearances. Whenever Paltrow has appeared, she's been in very significant arcs. I still need to sit down and finish off Finn and Dave Karofsky. Haha. Also BlueMoonset, nice work on the additions to Kurt, Rachel, and Finn's articles. I think it gives a better insight, especially since Ryan Murphy and the Glee crew have no idea what direction they're going to go in.

• 1. Glee creator says no one's going
• 2. Murphy talks spin-off

HorrorFan121 (talk) 07:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I will most likely go ahead and nominate "Comeback" next week - sadly it looks as though Candy's on an extended break. (As an aside, 10 is still a significant amount! I think pre-Glee, I'd written somewhere in the region of 12-14 GAs ever. The overall number WP:GLEE has amassed over the last 21 months is pretty staggering to me, haha.) That's great re: reviewing the plot sections. I think most start out okay-ish, but then with so many different editors adding in the odd sentence here and there, after a few months I guess the end-product is a disjointed affair like "AVGC".

Wrt Holly, there's definitely already enough material to meet the WP:GNG. I was kind of waiting on the Emmy noms to decide whether to give it a go, and Paltrow was indeed nominated, but maybe I'll wait for the outcome of the awards and prioritise other tasks. And wow, RM really needs to just stop giving interviews, ever. Frickative 13:00, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Did she get an Emmy-nom? I hadn't even realized when I looked at the nominees list some time ago. =/ Well, if you ever feel like going through with that, let me know. HAHA at that last part. Ryan Murphy really needs to stop giving interviews, as he's confusing everybody. Oh, and now there's this [2] HorrorFan121 (talk) 20:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

It's not just Gwyneth. Kristin Chenoweth and Dot-Marie Jones also scored noms, making it three of five for Glee in that category. I'm glad Dot-Marie did, as she did an excellent job this past year.

BTW, I seem to have gotten into a reversion scrap in the Characters of Glee article about the photos, which JWHolland has removed in the case of five characters. My understanding was that all significant characters should have a picture of the actor on the Characters page; JW seems to be under the impression that a picture is only needed if the character doesn't have a page with a picture on it there. (Though that logic would militate against retaining the Morrison/Lynch photo, and it still remains.) I have no particular attachment to the photos, but there's been a great deal of editing around them over the months, so I'd hate to see them deleted if they truly belong. Thoughts? BlueMoonset (talk) 01:50, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Hm, to the best of my knowledge there's no guideline or set style either way, it just happens that the article developed that way and has largely remained so. I wasn't keen on the images when they caused a lot of whitespace between sections, but that wasn't the case in the revision they were removed from, and "all these characters have their own pages with the same pictures" isn't the best rationale. The characters also have their own pages with largely the same info, that doesn't mean we should delete all their sections from the list... Per WP:BRD, the user ought to have begun a discussion once he'd been reverted, rather than reverting back. Probably the best thing to do is drop a message on the article talk page - or indeed, I'm happy to do that tomorrow if you prefer. I don't know that it'll elicit much feedback given that we seem to be in a mid-summer lull, but "Do we want these images here or not?" shouldn't be too hard to gather a quick consensus on.

On an unrelated note, I forgot to mention before re: plot sections, something to watch out for is the recommended word limit. MOS:TV says no more than 500 words per episode unless it's a convoluted storyline, and the general rule of thumb is about 100 words per 10 minutes of screen time, so most eps should hover around 450 :) Frickative 00:56, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh, one more thing I forgot: have either of you read Glee: The Beginning or Glee: Foreign Exchange? As they're official tie-in media, at some point we should probably look at turning the "Storylines" sections in the character articles into "Appearances", with subsections for "Television" and a few sentences on "Literature". I have the first book, it's just so exceptionally mediocre that I've never finished it... Frickative 01:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Why don't you post on the pictures? It's good to know that my reversion should have triggered the discussion if the editor had wanted to persist; I was pretty sure I shouldn't re-revert after that. On the plot sections, thanks muchly for the warning. I seem to have taken "Duets" from 531 to 730 words (including the various actors' names) tonight, so I'd better eliminate 200 words before bedtime. They just may not be the same ones I added. :-) I'll also check "Grilled Cheesus", though I was far more discreet there...

As for the tie-in novels, I saw Glee: Summer Break and read the first couple of pages, but it was so wrong for end-of-season-two Rachel and disappointingly written that I put it right back down. I was really hoping for better quality work-for-hire; to dignify this with "Literature" seems so inapposite. However, I do wonder about including them on the character pages. Yes, these are authorized tie-ins, but that doesn't mean that they're considered "canon" as far as the show is concerned. As an example, even thought the hundreds of Star Trek novels across many shows and movies are authorized, none of the events in them are considered official by Paramount, nor the characterizations. Even portions of the movie novelizations that stray from the script, or include sections that were cut from the final movie. There's a chance that something might cross-pollinate, such as when Vonda McIntyre's coining of "Hikaru" for Sulu's first name made it into the official canon, but these are rare. My take would be that these are extensions—extra stories, as it were—but none of the details will affect in the slightest any characterization going forward, nor will they be added to the show's bible. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:25, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I almost forgot: welcome back to more regular editing. We've missed your steady hand on the tiller!

PS: Bovineboy2008 answered my questions about Amazon in this thread. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:00, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome back! I've just started a discussion on image use here. Very nice work on "Duets" - it reads so much more smoothly now (and I'll be the first to admit my own prose can be clunky at times, haha.) Canonicity is a tricky area, I agree - although at least the first book purported to be written with input from Murphy, Falchuk and Brennan, there are clearly elements that don't mesh at all with the TV series. Perhaps we could do something like in the GA Jack Harkness, which seems to mainly document "The character appeared in This Novel, This One and That", without going into specific plots. Rather than "Literature", we could call it something more general like "Other appearances", and also add a few sentences on the tour being in-character, and the 3D concert movie.

Bovineboy raises good points on Amazon, and there are certainly ways we can work around it for US/Canadian releases - tvshowsondvd.com is a good resource for release dates and special features, and of course the album/EP releases are always accompanied by an official Fox press release. However, I can't think of a work-around for international releases, where no such announcements are made and relying on retailers is the only means of attaining a date. If it comes down to using Amazon-or-similar or omitting major international releases, I assume the former would be preferred. I specifically remember being asked to include, for instance, the New Zealand, Ireland and South Africa release dates for the season 1 DVDs in that article, and could only do so by using retailers based in those countries. I guess as long as we use such sites conservatively and prioritize other sources where available (perhaps some region-specific reviews might note release dates?), that'll have to suffice. Frickative 11:26, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

This is completely off-topic, but Kurt Hummel got a second peer review today. There are a few easy fixes I can do, but I was wondering if either yourself of BlueMoonset would be interested in helping out with it if you have time. HorrorFan121 (talk) 03:31, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

If there's anything I can help with then I'm more than happy to - my concern is that if multiple copy-editors from the GOCE have been over it and the prose is still being flagged up as problematic, I could end up making it worse, rather than better =/. I'd never seen the WP:PR/V link before though, and I was about to suggest contacting someone from the copyediting list there, when I noticed User:Bejinhan is down for "Major copyediting". She's a member of WP:GLEE, and last autumn, she put together the season one book. I think it'd definitely be worthwhile asking if she'd be willing to go over it. :) Frickative 03:52, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay! Good idea. I'll go pop her a quick message and see if she's interested. You and I have put quite a significant amount of work into Kurt Hummel and I'm determined to see it reach the status of being the "best quality produced on Wikipedia". Haha. Also, completely off topic again but have you given more thought to creating an article for Holly? HorrorFan121 (talk) 04:51, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I thought Frickative's idea was a good one, too. I could probably handle a number of the changes requested on the review, though I'm uneven when it comes to spotting passive voice (or avoiding it myself), but was really puzzled by the request to go for past tense, when I thought character articles were supposed to be relentlessly in the present. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:30, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

That would be great if you could look over some of the necessary changes! The reviewer was wrong on the second part though. The WP:MOS dictates that all fictional character plot lines are strictly to be written in the present tense. He might just be unfamiliar with writing about fictional characters. HorrorFan121 (talk) 05:58, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Re: Holly, I've started a sandbox here in case the mood strikes me to work on it (and one here for the "spin-off"). I'm probably going to concentrate on the articles for "Duets" and the 3D movie today, but I might start putting together an easy section like "Musical performances" in-between. Annoyingly, after tons of searching, I've finally found a reliable source for the episodes the guest actresses submitted for Emmy consideration... and the site's down. Argh. Frickative 12:12, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Before the section split here, I started a new section on HorrorFan121's own talk page about the Kurt Hummel edits, since they had gotten a bit buried. The conversation is continuing there, Frickative; I wanted to be sure you knew the new location. (I actually rather like this: conversations on both of your talk pages and my talk page about various articles in the Glee project.) BlueMoonset (talk) 02:57, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up! I had seen it - it's what prompted me to split things up, because the length of the Finn thread had gone beyond awkward to navigate with all the sub-topics :) I shall go and comment over there now. Frickative 11:44, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Glee season 2

Speaking of finishing up S2 articles yet, are we going to try to make the S2 list of episodes a FL alongside the first one? CycloneGU (talk) 17:28, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Definitely! I did a fair whack of prep work at the end of May, but haven't spent much time on it since. A few sections need a lot of work, but it's not in bad shape overall. Frickative 18:46, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Why are all of the lines a lime green now? That colour doesn't look as good as the others, and the blue originally there was much better. Is there a new colour thing we have to follow? CycloneGU (talk) 18:54, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Oops, now they're orange. But seriously, is there not a guideline to follow for this? CycloneGU (talk) 18:56, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Standard practice is for the colour to match the DVD boxset. The s2 boxset is... rather garish. Frickative 19:04, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

That is actually a close match. CycloneGU (talk) 19:28, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Revert

Frick I'm so sorry, I clicked on Rollback by mistake and reverted you on your own userpage! Apologies. GSorby - Talk! 01:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

LOL, no worries, I've hit rollback by accident more than once myself. Onwards and upwards :) Btw, nice work on Stella Crawford last week. It's been on my radar for ages, but I've never found the time to work much on it, so it's good to see it get some TLC! Frickative 01:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes indeed, I'm just gathering references at the moment so I will work on that later :-) GSorby - Talk! 01:22, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Hey!

Where the hell are ya? Been a while since I've seen ya.

You still following Glee? Apparently Idina Menzel is coming back for a storyline somewhere this season - and "The Glee Project" is currently airing on Oxygen (in Canada on Slice) and they're going to have someone on for a 7 episode run. If you can't see that show over there, I can tell you about it. Or you can try to get the episodes online; I had to do that for Episode 6 because I missed it!

Hope to talk to ya soon. =) CycloneGU (talk) 16:34, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey, long time no speak! I've been having a horribly busy summer, but thankfully my schedule's cleared up a little as of this week :). I am indeed still following Glee (and in fact got the orange message notification while editing Glee: The 3D Concert Movie just now :D). "The Glee Project" started here a few weeks ago, but after catching the intro and first episode, I've missed episodes two and three, oops! If you're still around in a couple of hours, I'll pop on MSN after dinner for a catch-up :). Frickative 16:50, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I may be able to direct you to those episodes online. =) I'm invisible on MSN lately (will explain later), but I'll make sure you can see me. =) CycloneGU (talk) 17:21, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Awesome! I shall be on in just over an hour :) Frickative 18:47, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome

Hey, thanks for the welcome you say you have source for the development section could you add that to the discussion page or meesage me thanks. Once again thanks for the welcome.--InExcelsis DeoTalk 14:10, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

You're very welcome! Unfortunately, the interview was in the 19 July issue of Inside Soap, and I didn't buy a copy. I believe that User:Raintheone (who I mentioned on your talk page) buys the magazine most weeks, so I'll ask if he'd be kind enough to scan it if he has a copy :). Frickative 14:17, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks that would be great. I hope you dont mind but I added an image to your draft article User:Frickative/Sahira Shah. By the way when are you planning to put that article on the real page. --InExcelsis DeoTalk 14:41, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for uploading an image! Wikipedia's image-use guidelines are unfortunately quite complex, and we're not allowed to use fair-use images until an article moves into the mainspace. I've added a colon to the link for now, just to stop it displaying until the page is moved. I don't know how long that will be - the draft is pretty well developed now, but there are still a lot of sources to go through, and I'd like to get it as complete as possible before the move. Frickative 14:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I've also started the Elizabeth_Tait_(Holby City its lacking right know as im updating it. I would be grateful of any sources. Also I tried cretaing it with my user spaec but didn't know how could you provide help so I know for future articles. Thank you. --InExcelsis DeoTalk 15:15, 4 August 2011 (UTC)