Talk:NeXT (demogroup)

Requested a move

I posted the following on the move page (since I cannot do the move myself):

• Talk:Next_Demo_Crew – Next_Demo_Crew ? Next (Demo crew) – I made a bad choice of name when creating the page. (I based my choice on some existing pages in the same category, they should probably be moved too) — Mike 15:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

If you check this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_demoscene_groups You will see there is a lot of different ways currently to enter names, have _Demo_Crew some have (demogroup) or (demo crew) or (demo scene) and some have nothing at all. --Mike 19:20, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Some points

…from the user who originally tagged for possible deletion.

If kept, the correct spelling of the group seems to be "NeXT" (capital X). (NeXT without any qualification is the article about the former computer company.) The suggested title to move to would thus be "NeXT (demo crew)" — small "d" in "demo".

There are several hundred Google hits on "Phaleon demo", "Phaleon gigademo" etc. in various spellings. So there may be a basis for regarding the group as notable after all. Anyone with expertise in this area want to chime in and help decide?

General problem with a lot of material of this type—for example, the list of members of the group:

• Is it useful in its present form? (Here it's just a list of handles after all, with no indications who the real artists were. This tends to give it a "vanity" flavour)
• Is it verifiable through some authoritative published source? Otherwise it may boil down to someone's original research, which is a no-no.

I can add the real names of all members. And it can easily be checked after with some other websites like "mobygames" that at least the persons I cites have been working on the list of games I provided. I didn't put the names in first places because it was looking like vanity actually :) I mean, I'm interested by the historic piece of information in order to get it exhaustive, not particularly to get my name written on wikipedia (I am the "Dbug" individual in the member list). — --Mike 16:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The Wikipedia "verifiability" and "original research" policies (linked to above) are the key here. They mean that it's O.K. to make references to existing histories of the demo scene credibly documented elsewhere — but not O.K. to try to create that history from scratch in Wikipedia.

If other articles related to this topic also have these problems, yes, that should be dealt with too. —IslandGyrl 16:12, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Deletion

I notice the article was listed for deletion. It may not produce any google hits on " Next Demo Crew", but it does on the words: Next Demo Crew atari[1]. Perhaps it is just a case of bad article name, should it perhaps be: Next (Demo crew) instead? anyway, perhaps the author should justify it, not me. Jens Nielsen 14:46, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Justification

Concerning the 'group'/'crew' label, it is my choice. Actually I just took a look to what existed, and I saw that both TCB and TLB atari groups were entered as "The_Carebears_Demo_Crew" and "The_Lost_Boys_Demo_Crew". Considering the "next" is also a generic name, I decided to remove the ambiguity and to follow the trend of using "crew" at the end.

Thing is that the group was called "Next" (on the Atari ST), but there is also an old cracking group on the Amiga having the same name.

Perhaps I made a bad choice of name ? But at least on the main demo page "group list" I used the "Next" name redirecting on the "Next_Demo_Crew" page.

Next (Demo crew) <= This seems a good choice of name, but then I guess that these other TCB/TLB and numerous demo pages should be renamed accordingly to get things straight and coherent.

Considering the importance of having this page because of the fact that NeXT has been the group behind the Phaleon Giga Demo.

The Phaleon Giga Demo is aknowledge on the demo scene as the first 4 discs demo ever made, and has a long history (being started in 1989 by The Replicants from the Union, then project was transfered to Next that managed to release it in 1992).

It is in the atari st demo history website: http://www7.in.tum.de/~brandtf/ataridemos.html

 1992: The Phaleon Demo
 The biggest ST-demo ever (A Giga-Demo). It comes on 4 disks and was compiled by NeXT. 
 Among many others there are screens by TCB, ACF, Agression, Delta Force and MJJ Prod. 5-20-1992. 

Appart of being the biggest demo on the Atari ST, this demo is also the first one to feature multiple selectable main menus, and the first "lamer test" screen on the Atari ST. It also contains the "Illusion" demo screen, aknownledge as the first real attempt to exploit the Atari STE new features.

Some other wikipedia pages talk about the Phaleon demo: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Demos

On the main demoscene file archive site, this demo is well known and respected too: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=496

Suppressing this page means that we are effectively suppressing a significant part of the Atari demo scene history, and if this is done then there is probably a lot more page to remove because they are no more and no less important.

please cite sources

Please cite whatever sources are available, or at least provide an external links section with a link to the group's website, if any. Jens Nielsen 15:43, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I quite heavily edited the article, adding lot of sources tha makes sense in the page (like reviews in the magazines). But to not increase the page I did not put everything, so here are some links to prove the data:

About the members of the group, the following site keep tracks of group membership: http://www.st.scene.free.fr -> http://www.st.scene.free.fr/main.php3?Groupe=NEXT

Video games links, who did what

• Mickael Pointier (Dbug) -> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,45003/ (by the way the "developer bio" also talks about the demo group)
• Olivier Lhermite (Mit) -> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,41915/
• Emmanuel Courossé (Chromix) -> http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,61090/

Reviews in magazines, they are hard to find, but I managed to find an 'abandonware' project with some copies of magazines, so here it is:

• http://www.abandonware-magazines.org/affiche_mag.php?mag=28&page=6 -> Tilt 105, september 1992, pages 46 and 47

For the other sources (tv) I fear I will have a hard time finding a tape of "MicroKids"

There is other kind of material I can add:

• a picture with the well known Next logo by Pulsar, that has been used in most of our productions as a fade in introduction
• links on Next productions on www.pouet.net

Editing

I'm in the process of adding material. Should I remove the deletion warning on the page ???

I'll remove it temporarily and replace it with a "not verified" tag. —IslandGyrl 16:36, 19 March 2006 (UTC)