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*'''Keep''' She is the holder of a named chair at a major university, and thus meets WP:PROF. This is way more than a "perfectly ordinary" academic. The ordinary academic is not a full professor in the most prestigious university in Holland. She has published several books, and at least a dozen peer-reviewed articles. This is considerably more than the "perfectly ordinary" academic. The publications show her an expert in her field. I added some of them to start with. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 18:37, 29 October 2011 (UTC) |
*'''Keep''' She is the holder of a named chair at a major university, and thus meets WP:PROF. This is way more than a "perfectly ordinary" academic. The ordinary academic is not a full professor in the most prestigious university in Holland. She has published several books, and at least a dozen peer-reviewed articles. This is considerably more than the "perfectly ordinary" academic. The publications show her an expert in her field. I added some of them to start with. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 18:37, 29 October 2011 (UTC) |
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:DGG has made me wonder if she may be more notable than I at first thought. However, at least some of DGG's reasoning is flawed. The fact that she has published "at least a dozen peer-reviewed articles" is certainly not an indication of notability beyond the typical academic: many research students have published half a dozen peer-reviewed articles, and a seriously notable academic can is very likely to have published far more than a dozen of them. Nor is having published several books a guarantee of notability: there are many people who have done so, but are not notable by Wikipedia's standards. Thank you, DGG, for adding mention of some of her publications, that is certainly helpful. However, her own publications do nothing to esatblish notability, as we need publications ''about'' her, not ''by'' her. Unfortunately "professor" means different things in different parts of the world. A professor in one of the traditional universities in Britain, for example, is a very senior position, whereas the title "professor" in many American universities applies to quite junior university lecturers. Holding "a chair" is also a variable qualification: in some universities that indicates that the person is a head of a major department, in others no little more than that they are a couple of steps above the lowest rank. In this case she was an "assistant professor" until the ''Participatie van Vrouwen uit Etnische Minderheden'' created a "chair for her as part of its campaign to increase participation of immigrant women. How far that chair represents an acknowledgement of her academic importance and how far it represents that she was considered the kind of person they wanted to encourage is unclear. In such a case the way to decide is to look for substantial independent coverage. I have had no difficulty finding coverage of the fact that she hold that chair, but I have not managed to find anything that indicates that that chair is significant. The expression "full professor" exists in America, but I have never come across it in the context of the Netherlands, so I can't say what it entails, if indeed it is a translation of a recognised expression. There is still not a single source cited in the article which is independent of her and gives substantial co0verage of her, as opposed to just mentioning her or being by her. I do acknowledge that, in light of what DGG has said, it is possible that she is more notable than I at first thought, but I still can't find the sort of substantial independent coverage of her academic career that would confirm that she is. [[User:JamesBWatson|JamesBWatson]] ([[User talk:JamesBWatson|talk]]) 20:03, 29 October 2011 (UTC) |
:DGG has made me wonder if she may be more notable than I at first thought. However, at least some of DGG's reasoning is flawed. The fact that she has published "at least a dozen peer-reviewed articles" is certainly not an indication of notability beyond the typical academic: many research students have published half a dozen peer-reviewed articles, and a seriously notable academic can is very likely to have published far more than a dozen of them. Nor is having published several books a guarantee of notability: there are many people who have done so, but are not notable by Wikipedia's standards. Thank you, DGG, for adding mention of some of her publications, that is certainly helpful. However, her own publications do nothing to esatblish notability, as we need publications ''about'' her, not ''by'' her. Unfortunately "professor" means different things in different parts of the world. A professor in one of the traditional universities in Britain, for example, is a very senior position, whereas the title "professor" in many American universities applies to quite junior university lecturers. Holding "a chair" is also a variable qualification: in some universities that indicates that the person is a head of a major department, in others no little more than that they are a couple of steps above the lowest rank. In this case she was an "assistant professor" until the ''Participatie van Vrouwen uit Etnische Minderheden'' created a "chair for her as part of its campaign to increase participation of immigrant women. How far that chair represents an acknowledgement of her academic importance and how far it represents that she was considered the kind of person they wanted to encourage is unclear. In such a case the way to decide is to look for substantial independent coverage. I have had no difficulty finding coverage of the fact that she hold that chair, but I have not managed to find anything that indicates that that chair is significant. The expression "full professor" exists in America, but I have never come across it in the context of the Netherlands, so I can't say what it entails, if indeed it is a translation of a recognised expression. There is still not a single source cited in the article which is independent of her and gives substantial co0verage of her, as opposed to just mentioning her or being by her. I do acknowledge that, in light of what DGG has said, it is possible that she is more notable than I at first thought, but I still can't find the sort of substantial independent coverage of her academic career that would confirm that she is. [[User:JamesBWatson|JamesBWatson]] ([[User talk:JamesBWatson|talk]]) 20:03, 29 October 2011 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''': This is the hardest Google search I've ever made in AfD discussions. JamesBWatson has rightfully observed that the different spelling of the name didn't help. The [http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=kkIOAQAAMAAJ&pg=PR101&dq=Ghorashi+halleh&hl=en&ei=EH-sTpn_INHqmAW3ktHZDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBDgU Encyclopedia of women and Islamic cultures] has showed up in a search for "ghorashi halleh" but I definitely have no way to verify the content if her name was in it. It will be very much appreciated if someone who has access to this book can verify. Thanks in advance. [[User:Pmresource|Pmresource]] ([[User talk:Pmresource|talk]]) 22:43, 29 October 2011 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 22:43, 29 October 2011
- Haleh Ghoreishi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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No evidence at all of passing either the general notability guideline or the guideline for academics. There are four references, but one is her profile on the web site of the university where she works, two make only passing references to her, and the other one is a page saying that she won a prize, but how notable the prize is is unclear. I can find no significant independent coverage of the prize. The amount of independent coverage of Haleh Ghoreishi is very small for an academic. Everything I have seen is entirely consistent with the hypothesis that she is a perfectly ordinary and unnotable academic. (Note: Verification of information is made more difficult by the fact that her name sometimes appears as Halleh Ghorashi rather than Ghoreishi.) JamesBWatson (talk) 17:52, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
- Keep She is the holder of a named chair at a major university, and thus meets WP:PROF. This is way more than a "perfectly ordinary" academic. The ordinary academic is not a full professor in the most prestigious university in Holland. She has published several books, and at least a dozen peer-reviewed articles. This is considerably more than the "perfectly ordinary" academic. The publications show her an expert in her field. I added some of them to start with. DGG ( talk ) 18:37, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
- DGG has made me wonder if she may be more notable than I at first thought. However, at least some of DGG's reasoning is flawed. The fact that she has published "at least a dozen peer-reviewed articles" is certainly not an indication of notability beyond the typical academic: many research students have published half a dozen peer-reviewed articles, and a seriously notable academic can is very likely to have published far more than a dozen of them. Nor is having published several books a guarantee of notability: there are many people who have done so, but are not notable by Wikipedia's standards. Thank you, DGG, for adding mention of some of her publications, that is certainly helpful. However, her own publications do nothing to esatblish notability, as we need publications about her, not by her. Unfortunately "professor" means different things in different parts of the world. A professor in one of the traditional universities in Britain, for example, is a very senior position, whereas the title "professor" in many American universities applies to quite junior university lecturers. Holding "a chair" is also a variable qualification: in some universities that indicates that the person is a head of a major department, in others no little more than that they are a couple of steps above the lowest rank. In this case she was an "assistant professor" until the Participatie van Vrouwen uit Etnische Minderheden created a "chair for her as part of its campaign to increase participation of immigrant women. How far that chair represents an acknowledgement of her academic importance and how far it represents that she was considered the kind of person they wanted to encourage is unclear. In such a case the way to decide is to look for substantial independent coverage. I have had no difficulty finding coverage of the fact that she hold that chair, but I have not managed to find anything that indicates that that chair is significant. The expression "full professor" exists in America, but I have never come across it in the context of the Netherlands, so I can't say what it entails, if indeed it is a translation of a recognised expression. There is still not a single source cited in the article which is independent of her and gives substantial co0verage of her, as opposed to just mentioning her or being by her. I do acknowledge that, in light of what DGG has said, it is possible that she is more notable than I at first thought, but I still can't find the sort of substantial independent coverage of her academic career that would confirm that she is. JamesBWatson (talk) 20:03, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
- Comment: This is the hardest Google search I've ever made in AfD discussions. JamesBWatson has rightfully observed that the different spelling of the name didn't help. The Encyclopedia of women and Islamic cultures has showed up in a search for "ghorashi halleh" but I definitely have no way to verify the content if her name was in it. It will be very much appreciated if someone who has access to this book can verify. Thanks in advance. Pmresource (talk) 22:43, 29 October 2011 (UTC)