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:: Fine - remove the "Turkish position" from the article then - at the very least. It is nothing more then genocide denial. It is poorly written and entirely POV - based on opinion and not fact. It is neither referenced nor supportable and should be treated as symptomatic denial - not history or even a legitimate position. The only proper way to deal with the Turkish denial of what are clearly truthful and scholarly/historical accepted positons are to present their false manipulated position for what it is - a joke and an insult and to treat their offical denial campaign in the manner which it deserves to be treated - with contempt (and certainly presented for what it is). What I have posted on these talk pages supports these contentions. I provide solid evidence for the position that affirms the fact of genocide and the fact that Turks undertook a systematic campaign to eliminate Armenians of the Ottoman Empire/Anatolia and then they deny that such occured - while evidence clearly shows otherwise. Meanwhile Turks comment here offer nothing but unsubstantiated opinion and personal attacks. Yet you people perpetuate this garbage while censoring my contributions. So you want the article to suck it seems. Fine. I would be and am embarrased by this amature piece posing as legitimate information and you should be too. You should be even more embarrassed about how you are supporting Genocide denial and unfactual revisionism and everyone should be embarrased by the extremely low quality of these talk pages in general. I've attempted my best to improve the quality of the discussion here - but obviously it is not appreciated. Truth and accuracy are seemingly secondary considerations in the world of Wiki. Quite pathetic. I will not be regulated to some secondary talk page while no nothing revisionists hold sway in the article and in the discussions. I can find better things to do with my time. --[[User:THOTH|THOTH]] 01:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
:: Fine - remove the "Turkish position" from the article then - at the very least. It is nothing more then genocide denial. It is poorly written and entirely POV - based on opinion and not fact. It is neither referenced nor supportable and should be treated as symptomatic denial - not history or even a legitimate position. The only proper way to deal with the Turkish denial of what are clearly truthful and scholarly/historical accepted positons are to present their false manipulated position for what it is - a joke and an insult and to treat their offical denial campaign in the manner which it deserves to be treated - with contempt (and certainly presented for what it is). What I have posted on these talk pages supports these contentions. I provide solid evidence for the position that affirms the fact of genocide and the fact that Turks undertook a systematic campaign to eliminate Armenians of the Ottoman Empire/Anatolia and then they deny that such occured - while evidence clearly shows otherwise. Meanwhile Turks comment here offer nothing but unsubstantiated opinion and personal attacks. Yet you people perpetuate this garbage while censoring my contributions. So you want the article to suck it seems. Fine. I would be and am embarrased by this amature piece posing as legitimate information and you should be too. You should be even more embarrassed about how you are supporting Genocide denial and unfactual revisionism and everyone should be embarrased by the extremely low quality of these talk pages in general. I've attempted my best to improve the quality of the discussion here - but obviously it is not appreciated. Truth and accuracy are seemingly secondary considerations in the world of Wiki. Quite pathetic. I will not be regulated to some secondary talk page while no nothing revisionists hold sway in the article and in the discussions. I can find better things to do with my time. --[[User:THOTH|THOTH]] 01:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


::: you have consistantly provoked the other side with your endless efforts in censorship of anything that even remotely disagrees with your view of events that occured during this tragic part of history. By not accepting the immense suffering of Turks under the hand of the Armenians and the foreign occupiers, you are in fact insluting the memory of these people. This, unfortunately has very much been the position of Armenians and their western supporters, the fact that the value attached to the lives of non christians is far less important. This sickening attitude goes on today, you just have to look at dysfunctional Iraq where hundreds of thousands of civilians have been massacred in what conveniantly known as collateral damage. If you had a more open mind and respect for others, maybe this topic would look much better today! If you are going to go back to your whining arguments of how the poor innocent armenians without provocation were massacred, please refrain from doing so because we have danced to the tune so many times already!
::: you have consistantly provoked the other side with your endless efforts in censorship of anything that even remotely disagrees with your view of events that occured during this tragic part of history. By not accepting the immense suffering of Turks under the hands of the Armenians and the foreign occupiers, you are in fact insluting the memory of these people. This, unfortunately has very much been the position of Armenians and their western supporters, the fact that the value attached to the lives of non christians is far less important. This sickening attitude goes on today, you just have to look at dysfunctional Iraq where hundreds of thousands of civilians have been massacred in what is conveniantly coined as collateral damage. If you had a more open mind and respect for others, maybe this topic would look much better today! If you are going to go back to your whining arguments of how the poor innocent armenians without provocation were massacred, please refrain from doing so because we have danced to the tune so many times already!


== Parliament of Kurdistan in exile ==
== Parliament of Kurdistan in exile ==

Revision as of 06:44, 28 March 2006

This is the talk page for discussing changes to the Armenian genocide ARTICLE. Please place discussions on the underlying political issues on the Arguments page. Non-editorial comments on this talk page may be removed by other editors.

Please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~). Place comments that start a new topic at the bottom of the page and give them == A Descriptive Header ==. If you're new to Wikipedia, please see Welcome to Wikipedia and frequently asked questions.


Archives
Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in a archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. -- Mgm|(talk) 09:20, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

Archives:

Armenian name?

Hi, Nice article, but what is the Armenian name for the genocide? Diyako Talk + 12:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[comment moved to argument page. - FrancisTyers 11:32, 27 March 2006 (UTC)][reply]

Also the article needs more and more images [1]. but of course images in public domain.Diyako Talk + 12:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Weasel words

These need to go. See Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words.

  • It is believed that
  • Many historians believe that
  • According to the same commissions and other records
  • Genocide scholars answer to those claims, that
  • Those who support the genocide theses state that
  • Some academics point to
  • There is a general agreement among Western historians that

- FrancisTyers 16:17, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The next week I will have time addressing those issues, but of course others may start working on them. Fad (ix) 19:17, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agree - at least in part. It is the use of some of these vaugue phrases in the article that causes much of my consternation regarding it. I do think they can be imporved - though it is effort of course (and much seems to fall on Fadix - as much of this article is the result of his dedicated work - but thank you for singling out some instances that perhaps we can work to improve.--THOTH 23:42, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I know it is a lot of work, but I think the article would really benefit from their removal. If we more properly source and attribute the claims/facts then there will be much less chance for people to come in and try and add the neutrality tag just for the sake of it, as we can point to the well referenced article. Especially considering the wideness of the acceptance of the thesis. - FrancisTyers 00:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I would love to do such - and perhaps I can make some attempt - however I have to admit - that once I get into something like this - my inate perfectionism takes over - and what I will do is rewrite the entire section - at the very least. I have a hard time just doing an insert edit if I don't feel the concepts are properly represented and information conveyed in a manner beffiting it. And I know this is how I will feel because I already have a difficult time just reading the article as it is in its current state. This is much the reason why I have hesitated making edits with out a mandate to do more then just make minor changes. I don't know if this makes sense - and it may seem rediculous to some - but its just my way - what can I say? --THOTH 00:56, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't we work on this first? Fad (ix) 17:48, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hope your good work will continue, but wait for the reversion of document back to the contrdictory editions.--OttomanReference 18:33, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bulgaria

On the list of countries that recognize the Armenian Genocide, I saw Bulgaria. What is the rationale of having Bulgaria on that list, since according to this http://www.arminfo.am/news_250206_2.shtml article, the resolution has been submitted to the Bulgarian Parliament.--Moosh88 00:20, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

nothing, [personal attacks removed - FrancisTyers 10:41, 27 March 2006 (UTC)]. A bit like the ridiculous number of pro genocide links that are justly being removed! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.203.130.47 (talk • contribs) 06:47, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments

Please keep your arguments to the arguments page. As the notice at the top of the page shows, any non-editorial comments may be moved there without further notice. Remember, this is a talk page for a Wikipedia article, not a soapbox. That goes for both sides of the dispute. Please refrain from personal attacks and try and remain civil. - FrancisTyers 10:41, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fine - remove the "Turkish position" from the article then - at the very least. It is nothing more then genocide denial. It is poorly written and entirely POV - based on opinion and not fact. It is neither referenced nor supportable and should be treated as symptomatic denial - not history or even a legitimate position. The only proper way to deal with the Turkish denial of what are clearly truthful and scholarly/historical accepted positons are to present their false manipulated position for what it is - a joke and an insult and to treat their offical denial campaign in the manner which it deserves to be treated - with contempt (and certainly presented for what it is). What I have posted on these talk pages supports these contentions. I provide solid evidence for the position that affirms the fact of genocide and the fact that Turks undertook a systematic campaign to eliminate Armenians of the Ottoman Empire/Anatolia and then they deny that such occured - while evidence clearly shows otherwise. Meanwhile Turks comment here offer nothing but unsubstantiated opinion and personal attacks. Yet you people perpetuate this garbage while censoring my contributions. So you want the article to suck it seems. Fine. I would be and am embarrased by this amature piece posing as legitimate information and you should be too. You should be even more embarrassed about how you are supporting Genocide denial and unfactual revisionism and everyone should be embarrased by the extremely low quality of these talk pages in general. I've attempted my best to improve the quality of the discussion here - but obviously it is not appreciated. Truth and accuracy are seemingly secondary considerations in the world of Wiki. Quite pathetic. I will not be regulated to some secondary talk page while no nothing revisionists hold sway in the article and in the discussions. I can find better things to do with my time. --THOTH 01:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
you have consistantly provoked the other side with your endless efforts in censorship of anything that even remotely disagrees with your view of events that occured during this tragic part of history. By not accepting the immense suffering of Turks under the hands of the Armenians and the foreign occupiers, you are in fact insluting the memory of these people. This, unfortunately has very much been the position of Armenians and their western supporters, the fact that the value attached to the lives of non christians is far less important. This sickening attitude goes on today, you just have to look at dysfunctional Iraq where hundreds of thousands of civilians have been massacred in what is conveniantly coined as collateral damage. If you had a more open mind and respect for others, maybe this topic would look much better today! If you are going to go back to your whining arguments of how the poor innocent armenians without provocation were massacred, please refrain from doing so because we have danced to the tune so many times already!

Parliament of Kurdistan in exile

is an unofficial organization linked to terrorist PKK group as mentioned in their own website PKE Furthermore, its already mentioned in the "official recognition" section so adding it a second time serves absolutely no purpose!

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