Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and intelligence/Review/Proposed decision

Main review page (Talk) — Evidence (Talk) — Proposed decision (Talk) — Original case page Review clerk: [[User:|]] ([[User talk:|Talk]])  Drafting arbitrator: TBD

Copyvios

Ferhago the Assassin in her recent edits today added 4 illegal images on Commons, claiming dishonestly that the images had been licensed under a Creative Commons license, and then linked them to wikipedia articles. All of these were blatant copivios, I contacted User:Alison earlier today to indicate that there was a problem and then later tagged two of them on commons. All four of them have now been been deleted. All of these linked to DeviantArt. I have no understanding of why Ferahgo the Assassin thought she could upload those images: her actions are inexplicable. She has on previous occasions asserted that nothing on that site concerning her can be examined. Now, however, with these edits she has stepped over a line and placed herself in a sitiation where normally it would be hard to defend her actions or prevent wikipedians from looking at her own participation on DeviantArt. Mathsci (talk) 18:18, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Comment My own understanding is that Ferahgo the Assassin has been less than open in what she has written on wikipedia. I also understand that arbitrators, including Roger Davies, have been aware of that for some period of time (probably more than a year). Mathsci (talk) 18:38, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh, YOU tagged these images at Commons? I explained the issue fully here. [1] The artists of all four images gave me explicit permission to upload the images at commons. They told me they'd uploaded them at DA under the correct licenses to use at commons, but they apparently failed to understand the difference between CC licenses and just selected DA's default option for CC license. I have been contacting the artists explaining the situation, and they are replacing the license so I can re-upload them correctly. I have already done so with one of them and he has replaced the image himself, after changing the license. [2]

Incidentally, this is exactly the kind of behavior from you that makes me want an interaction ban. I do not need you to police me and follow me around like this, on-Wiki or off. I am quite capable of working out honest copyright mistakes on my own. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 18:48, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

From my point of view, FtA has not been editing wikimedia commons in a responsible way. The files were deleted very quickly without any help from me, as blatant copyvios. Where were FtA's OTRS tickets? In the absence of those, she was just lying. DeviantArt is a site for kids. It has no academic validity whatsoever. She added an image of a dinosaur with blood oozing from its jaws, with no permission whatsoever from the creator. Why did she do that? Just for LULZ? If Ferahgo the Assassin is now claiming that instances of illegal uploading of images to commons have been reported in the past by me, I suggest she support that with diffs. Otherwise it would appear that she is not being particularly truthful (groan). How surprising is that: she is speaking here on behalf of a site-banned user, without even the tiniest flicker of self-doubt. I have not so far seen any evidence at all that she or her boyfriend (is Roger going to scream at me for saying that?) have presented against me. Mathsci (talk) 19:07, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

But you just said "All of these were blatant copivios, I contacted User:Alison earlier today to indicate that there was a problem and then later tagged two of them on commons." So according to you, you both tagged two of the images and contacted an admin about them. And then you say, immediately after, "No, they were deleted vey quickly without any help from me, as blatant copyvios." And then you call me a liar. Ok.

The original artists for these images are currently fixing the licenses and re-uploading them. This would be a complete non-issue if you weren't making a big deal about it. I don't pay attention to what you do on commons, post personal information about you, or insult your involvement in non-Wikimedia communities. The really flummoxing thing here is that you think it's okay to resort to these kinds of reality-distorted personal attacks and character assassination. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 21:36, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

The files uploaded by FtA were deleted as copyvios because she chose to misrepresent three users from DeviantArt on Commons (and wikipedia) with false claims about Creative Commons licensing. In cases like this it's best to follow policy instead of attempting to bend the rules. As far as using images go, in my own case, for the article on Edmund de Unger, I wished in the last two months or so to use 2 images from flickr which specified "no commericial use" (an 11th century Fatimid rock crystal ewer and a 13th century engraved Persian silver dish). Technically both were unusable. I contacted 2 different photographers in private, asking each of them if it might be possible to alter the Creative Commons licenses for those files. Both very kindly obliged. That's the normal way things are done on wikipedia. Mathsci (talk) 00:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Let's AGF. According to the many-worlds interpretation, it is entirely possible that Mathsci simultaneously did and did not pursue the deletions. Alessandra Napolitano (talk) 00:01, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

These "recreations" on DeviantArt were almost all original research by eager but uninformed amateurs (is WP really the place for recreations with blood soaked jaws?). Uploading them with non-existent creative commons licenses was not particularly helpful and a very odd way to go about things. Mathsci (talk) 00:39, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Most probably aren't original research, unless you consider things like File:BH LMC.png just as objectionable because they involve similar artistic interpretations. WP:OI covers this issue in detail. Image licensing mistakes are common and do not imply that an editor did it for the lulz. Alessandra Napolitano (talk) 01:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

The main point, as far as this review is concerned, is that FtA's recent editing on wikipedia has necessitated delving into the website DeviantArt, because on wikipedia she has used images not created by her from there. Mathsci (talk) 02:00, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I never uploaded an image of a dinosaur with "blood-soaked jaws". If you're referring to this image you should be able to tell the red is pigment in the skin of its face, as in the wattles of a turkey (if you're referring to something else, I have no idea what you're talking about). As promised, by the way, the artist has changed the license on that image to the appropriate one at my request. Now to be clear: are you saying that because I made an honest copyvio mistake which I then corrected, you think it's okay to follow me to Commons and DA to keep an eye on me and police my paleontology contribs? That's beyond absurd. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 03:06, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

The focus of this case is not on copyvio dinosaur pictures, a situation which has been resolved. The pictures incident has little bearing on why Ferahgo's participation in DeviantArt has been criticized. Look, it's possible to dig up all sorts of information on editors. Ferahgo's DeviantArt contributions are no secret, nor is her real name. Using these, one could find a wide variety of biographical material. But how much of it would actually be relevant to any situation existing on Wikipedia? This website is not an appropriate forum for the discussion of the merits of editors personal lives or their choice of company. Alessandra Napolitano (talk) 03:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I am not sure I understand what Alessandra Napolitana is referring to or indeed why she is commenting here. Files on commons were deleted because they were uploaded with improper licenses. FtA did not seek permission from the three creators on DeviantArt before she did the initial uploadng and she had to be prodded into doing so. The main point, however, was that it was necessary to look in detail at several DeviantArt pages. including her own, in ascertaining what was going on: it is precisely that which she has objected to in the past. It is that fundamental inconsistency that I am pointing out here. (The reliability of DeviantArt as a source is another matter, but it is not a substitute in any way at all for peer-reviewed content in mainstream academic journals or books.) FtA must be aware, having gone to all the effort with CO of lobbying for this review, that her own actions would be under scrutiny. FtA has previously uploaded images with a watermark on Commons (i.e. her own signature): she should remove that signature per WP:WATERMARK. FtA-CO bear sole responsibility for having their actions scrutinized. Together they made the choice of requesting an amendment for the second time and must accept the consequences now. Mathsci (talk) 04:45, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Update header request

Per [3] please update the header to say Estimates instead of DeadlinesNobody Ent 18:58, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

We will consider this suggestion. I suggest the word "target" rather than "deadline" for the proposed decision and comparable dates. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:33, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

"What harassment is not" principle

This gives short shrift to the wikihounding issue. All things considered, it is questionable whether regularly scrutinizing all contributions of any nature, across multiple WMF and non-WMF projects, by an editor with whom one has a disagreement for anything that could possibly be used against them is conducive to a collegial environment. Alessandra Napolitano (talk) 01:30, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Apart from Echigo mole (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), during this review no evidence has been produced on wikipedia of wikihounding. The behaviour of Mikemikev also hit rock bottom in March. Mathsci (talk) 02:11, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Request by Ferahgo the Assassin

FtA is yet again lobbying off the case pages.[4] She seems to be upset that her copyvios on Commons were discovered by me. But those copyvios are her responsibility, not mine. Mathsci (talk) 08:11, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Unnecessary interaction between Ferahgo and Mathsci

Hi Ferahgo and Mathsci:

Please limit any interaction between yourselves strictly to matters directly concerning this case and limit discussion to the parties themselves. Any further out-of-scope accusations/counter-accusations are likely to be dealt with robustly, by topic bans from case and talk pages and/or short blocks. Enough is enough.  Roger Davies ^talk 08:30, 10 April 2012 (UTC)