Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Juan Manuel Abras (second nomination)

Juan Manuel Abras

Non-notable composer/conductor. This page has been nominated for deletion once before and the result was DELETE (after someone attempted to use sockpuppets to vote in favor of Keep). That was in 2005 -- why is this article still here? Grover cleveland 16:46, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

The talk page for this article is also full of sockpuppets. Grover cleveland 16:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete as recreation of deleted content. Protect from recreation. The JPS 17:15, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Unless the writer or other Wikipedians can provide proof of importance. Almost Famous 17:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom. Grafikm_fr 18:21, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Probable vanity page and lots of sock-puppetry but he seems adequately notable in an under-represented field - see e.g. [1] or [2] Dlyons493 Talk 23:46, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Those pages tell us he's a postgrad student. He's taken lots of universty courses (surprise). He's studied with some notable professors, but that doesn't make him notable. He's directed some ensembles that are anonymous (in the English link) or that no-one has heard of (second link). He is a member of a composers' assocation (no evidence that any notability is required to become a member). He's founded lots of groups (big deal). As a composer, has his music been performed by musicians who are themselves notable? Has it been published by a major music publishing company? As a conductor, has he conducted a notable orchestra or ensemble? Are any recordings of his conducting or compositions available commercially? Grover cleveland 05:50, 20 April 2006 (UTC) All comments by Grover cleveland are erroneous and false. Abras is not a postgraduate student anymore (besides, you can achieve notability even while being a student). Not everybody is accepted -as Abras was- to take university courses at the prestigious institutions he attended (where legends like Karajan, Abbado, and Mehta, for instance, studied too: University of Music and Performing Arts Vienna, Austria, just for naming one). The ensembles Abras conducted (I checked them one by one) are not anonymous at all; they are simply not listed in this article. The Argentine Composers Association -Abras is a member of that institution- was founded in 1915 as "National Society of Music" and is one of the oldest and most prestigious composers associations of Latin America (of course, not everybody is accepted for becoming a member). Some of Abras scroes and CDs are, indeed available commercially (this was checked too). Abras was designated conductor of two of first-class Argentine Orchestras (this was verified too). Conclusion: all comments by Grover cleveland may be product of the evil, non authoritative, jealous and envious mind of, maybe, a frustrated musician that possibly doesn't even know how to read a music score. Music Master

• Delete and protect from recreation.--blue520 07:43, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and protect from deletion. Comments like those from Grover cleveland should be avoided for being non professional, erroneous, non authoritative and offensive. Grover cleveland

Previous comment was from a Sockpuppet? Grover cleveland 19:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

• Coment I am the author of the previous comment and, as the administrators can see, there is no such a thing. Paranoic and misleading behaviours like the ones exhibited by Grover cleveland, product of possible envious attemps of discrimination by frustrated people, should not be permitted within the frame of Wikipedia and will be properly denouneced. Music Master
• Keep Notability within the frame of specialized european media is more than proved. I spent hours checking the info and sources. It's more than worthy of keeping. Monitory

• Keep per above and protect from deletion. If not, we should delete many other articles I found in this article's categories: he is as notable -or even more notable- than a bunch of other young composers found at Wikipedia. Bororomir Wins
• Delete as NN and protect from recreation. Membership in organizations and admission to programs/educational institutions, prestigious though they may be, does not necessarily confer notability. For all the hyperbole above I see no mention of which orchestras he led (WP:Cite). The extensive sock puppetry above and on the article's talk page indicate that this article will be quickly recreated if not protected. --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 00:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC) AbsolutDan Read weel what I posted before: Membership detail was an answer to an envious comment by Grover cleveland. Notability is well proved by authoritative sources. Pay more attention before writing. Grover cleveland