Talk:Lead paint

Some High-Profile Cases

Would you think that mentioning some high-profile cases, like the recent recall of Mattel toys would enrich the article? SaintCahier 05:53, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

This article is Toxic

(Though, when taken in small amounts, lead may act as a vitamin by interacting with nicotinamide receptors in myocytes to aid in transport.) Where the heck did this come from???? Lead is definately not a vitamin, nor is arsencic nor DDT nor Polonium 210. Lead is not required by any known organism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.87.166.127 (talk) 04:55, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you read the article you'll discover they taste sweet. As in "Lead paint - delicious but deadly". Josh Parris#: 01:46, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know whether lead added to paint acted as a fungicide? Was this one of the reasons that lead was added to paint, and was this cited as an advantage when marketing lead paint? Emrys2 05:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe mercury was added as a fungicide.--Jrm2007 (talk) 11:51, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Mercury, in the form of thimerosal, was used in some "latex" and other water-based paint. It cannot be used in "lead paint" or other "oil" paints as it is insoluble in hydrocarbons (water-based "lead paint" is theoretically possible, but was never made commercially). It would also serve no purpose as it was added only to preserve the paint while in a liquid state (solvents inhibit fungus in "oil" paint). It did little to protect dried paint as it would quickly dissolve out of the coating . Namati (talk) 09:15, 24 August 2011 (UTC)Namati

As far as I'm aware, lead paint was never marketed as a fungicide. Lead was added to paint for two main reasons. First, it is highly durable. That's why you see hundred year old buildings with the paint still relatively intact. Second, lead paint is self cleaning. If you see a house with the exterior walls painted with lead paint you may notice a chalk like material on the surface. This is the paint slightly breaking down, so you can just spray it with a hose and it will wash off with any surface dirt. This chalking effect (which eventually happens to all paints and is not an indicator of lead content) is also one of the main ways to get lead poisoning (by inhalation). I work as a lead-based paint inspector/risk assessor. Ssabusivefw 00:01, April 12, 2007 (EST)

Thanks! Very helpful. I asked the question because we've been trying to understand why, in the UK, old joinery appears to be more resistant to rot than new. Lead paint was one suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be the right answer. Thanks, anyway. Emrys2 15:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

The lead compounds used as pigments or bases in paint have only a slight antifungal effect. Lead carbonate (white lead) based paint, however, due to its superior adhesion and durability, may indirectly better protect wood from fungus and decay than other types of paint. Older paint formulations sometimes also included more effective and longer lasting antifungal and antimicrobial agents (such as arsenic) than are used today due to concerns of toxicity. The only actual pigment ever in common use as a "house paint" (as far as I know) that is itself a strong antifungal agent is red iron oxide (Fe3O4 - commonly know as "rust"). This is what gives "barn red" its color. Barns were often and sometimes are still painted with it because the nature of their use often promotes the growth of fungus. Namati (talk) 05:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

What about some text and a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_Cameron_Patterson whose work in reducing lead is well regarded. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Starpom10 (talk • contribs) 14:08, August 23, 2007 (UTC).

I added a few links I found useful in my own search for info on Lead paint, one to a lead based paint study funded by the HUD, another to an article in Nation magazine about the politics of the lead industry and a third I found on the EPA's website, a guide to making renovations in a home with Lead paint. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Starpom10 (talk • contribs) 14:27, August 23, 2007 (UTC).

Misleading reference to study?

In the section on lead paint in art (which I largely wrote), someone added the following:

"Lead paint will often become discolored over long periods of time. This is due to the reaction of the lead carbonate in the paint with traces of hydrogen sulfide in the air and with acids, often from fingerprints. [2] As a result, many older works of art that used lead paint now show some discoloration."

As I found this surprising, I went and carefully read the study being cited. Their research seemed to refer only to lead in aqueous media on paper, although that wasn't absolutely clear. But lead paint has rarely been used in watercolor techniques in modern times! (It was occasionally used that way in the nineteenth century and earlier.) Today's artists working in transparent watercolor (aquarelle) don't usually use white paint at all, or just occasionally a bit of "Chinese White" (not lead) to make corrections. And opaque watercolors (gouache) and acrylic (polymer) artist's paints typically use titanium dioxide or (rarely) zinc white, but never lead. Normally "flake white" is used only by oil painters, and there's no indication in the study that they were referring to oil paints. Cooperstown is a well-respected institution, and perhaps they were referring to some early-nineteenth century work; but for practical advice to contemporary artists, I'm sticking with the modern master technologist (Ralph Mayer). He and many others have observed that flake white may get *slightly* yellowish after centuries -- but nothing like the gross discoloration referred to in the paragraph above. If someone has more information on this, please mention it here; otherwise when I come back I'm going to delete that paragraph or water it down (no pun intended).

Why the use of "unfortunately" in this sentence? "Unfortunately, it allows owners to not even test for lead-based paint; instead owners can simply disclose that a test has never been performed." That is not viewpoint neutral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.25.235 (talk) 17:04, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

This article is biased!

This article talks about the dangers of lead in the human body but does not talk about whether lead from paint can get into the body and does not mention specific amounts. Isaac 01:25, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

There are several well reported cases of people being poisoned by lead paint, including some high profile cases (see Candido Portinari). Small children are specially vulnerable, as painting chips are sweet and they tend to consume enough an amount to harm them. See this report from EPA [1].

In view of those facts. I am removing the tag. SaintCahier 17:07, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

This article portrays a "sensationalized" view. "...it is extremely toxic to living organisms" is a bit strong, as any MSDS sheet [2] will classify lead as only "toxic" or "moderately toxic," and will not go so far as to call it "very toxic," let alone "extremely toxic." --Kest 14:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that portraying, in this article, that lead is "moderately toxic" would convey the wrong idea. It is certainly "moderately toxic" in a LD50 sense, but the seriousness of the consequences of chronic expositions (specially on children) justify characterizing it as very dangerous. I'll try to rephrase to avoid this confusion. SaintCahier 12:22, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I've read over the changes and I'm quite pleased and impressed! I agree that "moderately toxic" understates the danger, as the LD50, TLV and PEL levels are all very low (indicating high toxicity), but I'm glad "extremely toxic" was removed, as it really should be reserved for things like dimethylmercury, hydrogen cyanide, and other things with a 4 in their blue safety diamond. --Kest 13:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Lead ingestion specifically leads to mental retardation!

.....and medical studies leading to the decision to ban it in residential use in 1978 should be detailed here. Also the lack of recent government oversight of the problem of leaded paint in imported goods AND NOW LIPSTICK OF ALL KINDS AND TYPES! should surely be included.207.178.98.7 23:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)207.178.98.7 23:42, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

World view

Someone chose to add a tag indicating this article does not represent a world view of the subject. I cannot find a reference to a world view in the article or on the talk page. Can anyone point me to it? If not, the tag should be removed as it misleads the reader into believing that other countries differ in their opinion of the dangers or lead paint.

Let me be clear. I would be more interested in reading about another country's differing view of the dangers of lead paint than in removing the tag. But, if there is no mention in the article or talk page about those differences then the tag is inaccurate and must be removed. - Tεxτurε 17:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the tag was accurate and I've reorganized the article to park the US-specific items under its own heading although it could use some additional cleanup. The reorg facilitates the inclusion of other countries take on the issue by just adding a new section.--Hooperbloob 23:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Still used in US?

"Paint with significant lead content is still used in industry and by the military. For example, leaded paint is sometimes used to paint roadways and parking lot lines."

Well, that certainly is somewhat shocking information. But, how true is it? Where exactly is this taking place? The US section is silent on this matter. It should tell us exactly where new lead paint is actually being used on purpose.-69.87.200.233 18:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I would not be surprised if either there are still exceptions such as the painting of roadways or if the prohibition occurred later than for resedential painting. I believe that the Golden Gate bridge (and thus presumably other bridges) still are being maintained using lead paint.

I also think that the paint on automobiles might still be contain high amounts of Pb. If so, I think this might be a very significant source of exposure. How many people do work on their cars involving stripping/sanding without even knowing about this potential danger? And beyond stripping, would simple weathering of car paint result in the release of lead into the environment?--Jrm2007 (talk) 11:59, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Lead-based paint was only banned in the US for residential usage. "Residential Lead-Based Paint Hazard Reduction Act of 1992--Title X" (Title X) was the first federal law that dealt with the control of lead-based paint. The US Department of Housing and Development (HUD) wrote their "Guidelines For the Evaluation and Control of Lead-Based Paint Hazards in Housing" (HUD Guideline) pursuant to Title X, thereby only applying to residential buildings. The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) restricted the amount of lead allowed in paint to 0.06% by weight (600 parts per million)in 1978. Some localities however did ban lead paint earlier (such as New York City) which banned lead-based paint for residential usage in the 1960's. Lead-based paint is still used almost all the time on bridges, military vehicles, and other large steel structures. This is because lead-based paint is a very good paint in the sense that it holds up very well over time and there is a very low exposure to the general population, especially children, in these circumstances. I work as a lead-based paint inspector/risk assessor. If anyone knows of any laws that have been passed paint lead-based paint in anything besides residential properties and consumer products I would be very interested in knowing.--Ssabusivefw (talk) 04:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Toxic Levels of Lead in Toys?

Are the huge lead-based toy recalls related to the use of lead paint or does the lead come from some other source? I just don't understand where this lead in toys are coming from. A friend said the source was paint. Please help conform/deny this assumption. Thanks!

?

can someone please answer a question that i have conserning this particular lead poisoning paper. Well question is if you repaint the house how is it that the lead goes away? It also says to avoid scraping the paint. But if you repaint over the old pain would't it still be there?

Lead-based paint does not go away when it is painted over. What happens is that it help to reduce the exposure to the lead-based paint. And yes, you should avoid scraping it. The real danger from lead-based paint is not the actual paint per se, it the the dust that is created from scraping it, cutting it, buffing it, etc. These kinds of activities create a lot of dust which can be inhaled or ingested thereby leading to lead poisoning.--Ssabusivefw

X-radiology

Lead based paints can be used in x-ray studies of paintings. In the past, paintings were 'improved' by the people who were supposed to be preserving them. X-rays showing lead white can show the layers and modifications to the painting. That's about all I know. I'm just putting this here in case anyone knows more about it and would like to write about it. If I know more I'd write it, but I don't think my contribution would be worth much on its own. Everything I know about this is from 'Colour - travels through the paintbox' by Victoria Finlay 121.72.145.9 (talk) 11:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Start of Lead Based Paint?

At what point in time was lead first used in paint? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.254.128.141 (talk) 14:46, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Certainly Medieval, probably earlier. The Romans used lead as a drier (not a pigment) in boiled linseed oil, and white lead pigment was used in cosmetics by the Egyptians. Can't remember offhand when red or white leads first appeared as pigments though. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Lead dust

Does regular dust build-up, such as on window sills, potentially create the risk of inhaling lead contaminanted particles if the dust is disturbed? Is lead dust generally a separate thing from regular dust or can regular dust carry lead from off painted surfaces? Also, how far does lead dust spread when disturbed (low level activities such as opening a window sill) and what would be a reasonable expectation for how long it remains airborne? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.115.144 (talk) 18:37, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Clarification of Article

The article's statement that "flake white" and "Cremnitz white" are both names for white lead paint is misleading. Flake white is often a combination of white lead (lead carbonate) and zinc white (zinc oxide), while Cremnitz white is (almost always) just white lead. Namati (talk) 06:18, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Flake White

Cremnitz White

recognizing

is there going to be some indication of how to recognize lead paint compared to lead-free paints? 94.224.194.209 (talk) 03:06, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

I guess that may be something that could possibly be added to the article but Wikipedia does not offer DIY advice or act as a how-to guide. Here in New Zealand there are test kits available to detect lead paint. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 06:14, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Red Lead paint.

"Red lead" paint, containing lead tetra-oxide is not mentioned in the article. It is still available as an industrial coating, in many countries. More highly oxidized metals are, in general, less toxic.WP has an article on red lead paint, and should be linked here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.219.69.239 (talk) 09:27, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Canada

The article mentions that lead paint is banned in 'countries such as the U.S. and the U.K.' How about Canada? Is that one of these countries 'such as' the U.S. and U.K., or is it still in use here?