Talk:Nobel Prize controversies: Difference between revisions

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Nobel's aren't awarded posthumusly, I seriously doubt that the Nobel Foundation waited for Rosalind Franklin to die before they awarded the prize. This page is going to have issues with POV. --nixie 06:20, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think much of the controversy lies in the very fact that Nobels are never awarded posthumously. Franklin's case simply illustrates this. -- FirstPrinciples 06:44, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

This and this are decent sources about some controversial choices --nixie 06:37, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Nominations Later Condemmed

Right now, this lists Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, and... GWB. This seems a bit too much like it's trying to make a point. I say this because "later condemned" is such a vague and imprecise designation. Condemned by whom? Since none of the above have been awarded the prize at all, and since there are probably hundreds of thousands of people authorized to make nominations, I submit that this category is useless and probably unverifiable. Perhaps it can be improved, but I don't see how. I will give this a bit of time to see if anyone can come up with good suggestions. If not, I'm deleting it. Vonspringer 21:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A few years ago the prize committee began releasing the nominations from the first half of the 20th century. It was then that these nominations came to light. They have been criticized, but those criticisms are not especially notable, so far as I have seen. I think that rather than deleting this section we should rework it into coverage of old nominations, omitting the criticism angle. However, since thousands of nominations have been made, and since many of those nominated are still notable, simply listing all notable nominees isn't practical. -Will Beback 23:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's a possibility. We could call it "Notworthy Unsuccessful Nominations" or something like that. We would need to add some more failed nominations other than three dictators and a controversial U.S. president to avoid the appearance of bias, especially since GWB's nomination can't be confirmed by the Nobel committee for nearly 50 years. I don't know enough about the subject to know who should be added. I'll give it a few days, and if someone who knows more doesn't come along, I'll do my best to improve it myself. Vonspringer 00:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

gandhi?

Controversial nominations

Adolf Hitler was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Peace by E.G.C. Brandt, member of the Swedish parliament. The nomination was withdrawn in a letter of February 1, 1939.
Josef Stalin, nominated in 1945 by a Norwegian former foreign minister, nominated in 1948 by a Czech professor.
Benito Mussolini, nominations in 1935 by a German college law faculty and a by a French law professor.

When were these nominations controvesial, and among whom? They were secret until recently. -Willmcw 01:32, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Those nominations are controversial nowadays. Andjam 01:39, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give us links to the controversy? Thanks, -Willmcw 01:50, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Are you seriously disputing that the Hitler nomination has generated controversy? I'll google some pages if you wish, but only if you put it down on the record that you doubt that the nomination is controversial. Andjam 01:59, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Controversy -A dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views" [1] For these nominations to be controvesial, someone would have to be supporting them. If we want to list these the appropriate header would be "Nominations which were later condemned". Does anyone alive today really think that any of these three really should have won? If not, then there is no controversy. -Willmcw 02:06, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You asked, and shall receive: If anyone deserved the Nobel Peace Prize, it was Adolf Hitler. I'd be happy with "Nominations which were later condemned". I guess I was happy with "controversial" because it's often a polite euphemism for "widely condemned". Andjam 03:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, on the face of it the cited article appears to suggest that Hitler loved peace and shold have won the award. However, it does not mention the nomination so it seems to be speaking in general terms (even the nominator quickly withdrew his own nomination). Let's go with "Nominations which were later condemned", it's more accurate. -Willmcw 04:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Remember that 1938 was the year of Peace for our time. The British Prime Minister had just come back from visiting Hitler and proclaimed that the work of Hitler had assured "the peace of Europe", and world leaders were congratulating Hitler, who also had enormous popular support within Germany (people should not forget that millions voted for Hitler). People around the world did not know what was to come later. In terms of it being a controversy, I am sure there were lots of Jews within Germany who did not agree with much of the rest of the world, and did not think Hitler was a wonderful peace-loving guy. Rnt20 07:33, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

File:Neville Chamberlain2.jpg

Chamberlain holds the paper containing the resolution to commit to peaceful methods signed by both Hitler and himself on his return from Germany at Croydon Airport in September 1938. He said:

My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time.

This image from Neville Chamberlain summarizes the opinion most western leaders had of Hitler in 1938, which may explain why Hitler was nominated for the Peace Prize. You have to remember that most of Hitler's rise to power had come from popular support within democratic Germany (i.e. he won elections), and even in 1938 he had enormous popular support. And there is no question that, worldwide, Hitler was considered far more of a "peace" figure in 1938 than George Bush was in 2003, and yet it is widely cited that Bush was (controversially) nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2003 (obviously we won't know this for certain for a few years). If Hitler had died in 1939, and there had been no Second World War, Hitler would have gone down in history as one of the most successful peace-brokers of the 20th Century, rather than as the tyrant he became. The bad things Hitler did in the 1930s were only brought to the forefront of public attention later (dredged up by Allied propaghanda departments). Rnt20 07:42, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That is one view, though a view which neglects Germany's role in the Spanish Civil War, as many did at the time. Altogether, I don't think that Hitler's nomination was fantastic. It really isn't surprising that he was nominated, given the uniquely open nomination process for the Peace Prize. The nomination was withdrawn in February of 1939, a full six months before the outbreak of World War II. The agreement at Munich has some parallels to the Camp David accord forty years later that won Sadat and Begin the Prize, except for the outcome. (may the Nobel Peace Prize committee gets a few right). -Willmcw 09:02, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Chamberlain received 24 nominations, starting in 1928, though neither he nor Hitler ever got the Prize. What does that tell us about the significance of nominations? -Willmcw 09:06, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ariel Sharon

Two users ([[User:Willmcw and 138.231.136.10) repeatedly posted confusing information about Ariel Sharon on this page. I think what they were trying to say was that Ariel Sharon's prize was controversial, not just that he disapproved of Yasser Arafat, although this was not clear. I have added some text which I hope reflects these views.

If this is not what was intended please add a comment below. Rnt20 11:18, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that'd better. The prize was controversial due to both of its recipients. -Willmcw 19:58, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To get things clear, can you define what you meant by "repeatedly" specially that user 138.231.136.10 didnt edit this page but once. Sharon wasn't ever get nominated neither get any nobel prize in his life. Crticism regarding Arafat Nobel prize was lead by Ariel Sharon; How could someone in Charge of many massacres against Lebanese and Palestinian people can crticize such award?

I Believe it would be fair enough to note on Yasser Arafat prize that one who was describing him as terrorist (Ariel Sharon) is not an angel neither, specially when Sharon's history is full of blood and massacres against many people in the middle east. It wouldnt be objective to cite that Arafat is terrorist without knowing the history of those condemning him with this terrorism label.

Two suggested additions

Controversial exclusions

Leo Tolstoy was never awarded the Literature prize. It's first edition (1901) was awarded instead to almost forgotten Sully Prudhomme (René François Armand Prudhomme).

Controversial recipients

What about Menachem Begin (1978, Peace prize, shared with Egyptian president Anwar Sadat)? He was once declared a wanted terrorist, and $50,000 were offered by the British administration of Palestine as a reward to anyone assisting in his capture, after the Etzel organization blew up part of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 90 people (1946). --Filius Rosadis 22:01, 30 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, his win was clearly controversial. Not only was he at odds with the UK, but the Palestinians too- his organization, IRGUN, held many xenophobic principles (including a complete population 'transfer' (euphamism emphasized) of palestinians to neighbouring arab states).

Yasser Arafat

How is it a "point of view" to say that Arafat is considered by many to be a terrorist. I did not write that he is a terrorist. It is inaccurate to say that only by Israel, and only in the past, was he so considered, as "Yassar Arafat had previously been regarded as a "terrorist" by Israel." suggests. --DavidSJ 23:24, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Er, I would point out that absolutely no one disputes the fact that Arafat was the founder, and lifelong leader, of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, which DID use terror tactics to advance its agenda...the very definition of a "terrorist organization". The PLO made liberal use of anti-civilian bombings, both suicidal and otherwise, and did not refrain from attacking the civilians of nations other than Israel. Sometimes merely being of the wrong religion (Jewish) was enough for the PLO to commit casual, off-the-cuff murder (as per Mr. Klinghoffer, who was thrown over the side of the Achilles Lauro still in his wheelchair).

It might be possible to say that, once the Palestinian Authority was created, Arafat began to reform his ways. But in the wake of his personal dual decision to break off the Oslo Accords and launch the intifidas which continue to take the lives of Israeli and Palestinian alike via the use of terror tactics, I do not see how it is reasonable to claim that Mr. Arafat was NOT a terrorist. I would certainly note that his history of involvement in and support for terrorism produced a far longer list of crimes than Sharon and Begin put together --- if we are to consider THEM "suspect", then Arafat cannot be given a free pass. --Calbeck 21:39 MST, 17 March

What about Menachem Begin? As leader of Irgun, he attempted to employ many xenophobic policies before being coopted by popular politics (much like arafat) and reforming his ways. He won in 1979 (?) with Anwar Sadat (Egypt) and Jimmy Carter.

I think Arafat's nobel was controversial as he was a "terrorist". But so was the win for former general and minister of defence

Cheaters

Within the physics community a few Nobel proze winners are believed to have cheated others out of the honours. At least 5 names come to mind quickly, however this is something that is not widely know outside the physics community and is not much discussed on the net either. One case I read about in a science magazine (paper edition) about 20 years ago but that one is not in their web archive.

How should this be dealt with? This was brought up in the case of one specific laureate and I see the article is now carefully worded stating he won the prize without saying it was his work, which is technically correct. -- 14:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)