Talk:Randian hero

Physical Characteristics

As I recall, a majority of Randian heroes are seen attractive in the view of other heroes, but are often not seen this way by other characters. I can try to find a good reference to this if anyone vehemently opposes my edit. Joseph.Re (talk) 10:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Not that I vehemently oppose the notion, but I would be interested in seeing a reference for that :) Skomorokh 19:03, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

"Why, my dear" said Kiki, "He's not good-looking at all, but extremely masculine." The Fountainhead, page 227, referring to Roark.

--Darkmusashi (talk) 07:43, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I would be interested in showing randian heroes that appear outside of Rand's work. Where there any authors inspired by Rand with Randian heroes in their books? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.119.249.205 (talk) 18:37, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Notable admirers and emulators of Randian heroes

This section was added to deal with the POV problem of presenting Randian heroes and the influence of this archetype only as a positive image, and also to prove notability of the subject (the idea of the Randian hero influenced a lot of people now and recently prominent in world affairs, politics, psychology). The article is still somewhat pro-Rand insofar as only her actual works, and those of former disciples or admirers, are included. It would be helpful to find some citations from someone credible who thinks Rand is Satan, or simply a bad influence, or otherwise confused about what heroism is. As it stands this article should have a POV tag for being pro-Rand, but the inclusion of a damning admirer (Black) and a recanted one (Ryan) should be enough to keep it from being called pro-Rand or taking her views too seriously "as a philosopher" (note the word non-academic, Rand never submitted any works of "philosophy" to peer review, did she?).

Remember, please, this is an encyclopedia, and to be significant a subject has to be relevant to the real world, not only to the fan base or critics. The various critical essays on the influence of the Randian hero, in particular Branden's,

The Benefits and Hazards of the Philosophy of Ayn Rand: A Personal Statement, 1984 [1]

are really worth reading - it's a crtitique from the inside. Mention of Paul Ryan and Alan Greenspan should prove the subject's relevance to someone who would otherwise dismiss Rand entirely, and mention of Conrad Black and Barbara Amiel can help pretty much anyone illustrate their position (that those who laud Rand's heroes behave like her villains, or that the model of heroism is megalomania, or that stakeholders do not count in Rand's model over majority shareholders or executives, or anything really), so seems neutral enough. Ryan's criticism is harsh but it's what he said.

It's really easy to prove that Greenspan's view of the gold standard influenced his monetary thought and is clearly related to his early Objectivism. With Ron Paul gaining influence in the GOP as of 2012 it seems more relevant than ever, as monetary policy has huge influence on the economy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.227.8 (talk) 16:17, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I moved this section to the end, because the article should describe what the subject is before it talks about people emulating it. That said, the much of the section seems like original research. Do you have any reliable sources that describe Paul Ryan, etc., as emulating Rand's heroes? The web links you provided don't do that. --RL0919 (talk) 18:16, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree that much of the section does sound like original research. I added some citations needed tag for the claims. Why not just list the people that "admire or emulate" Randian heroes and provide inline link to other wiki articles and let those articles about the subject speak for itself? A better section may be (if there indeed are sufficient verifiable sources) titled "Alleged Influence of Randian Heroism," if the purpose is to discuss the influence of Randian hero on current or historical figures or "Interpretation of Randian Heroism," if the purpose of the section is to discuss how the current figures interpreted the Randian Heroism to mean X. (Where claim of X is from verifiable source). Failing to provide reorganization or improved citation without sounding like POV of the section contributor, I recommend just listing the people and provide wikipedia internal link without current sentences. --Dchem (talk) 22:27, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't object to the inclusion of a reference to Conrad Black in principle but in the given source there is no mention of him actually even reading or enjoying Rand. There is only a single quote from a friend that he seemed like a character in a Rand novel. With this in mind, parts of the section definitely still feel like OR and seem to provide unsubstantiated evidence in order to support the conclusions they have already drawn. Can someone provide a reliable source to support the implied admiration Black had for Rand or should I just delete it completely? --ColinLacey (talk) 02:11, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Having waited many months for original writer of this section to respond, and having read the Macleans article in which the author of the article compares Black to various figures in literature without citing reason, for an example - "Even Black's friend George Jonas described Black in the National Post last week as "projecting a persona out of Ayn Rand."" I'm going to remove references to Conrad Black. A "persona out of Ayn Rand" could mean anything, villains and heroes. This claim that Randian Hero was an archetype that Conrad Black tried to become is unfounded.Dchem (talk) 06:15, 16 April 2013 (UTC)