Talk:Revolver Ocelot

Regarding Ocelot's origins - in MGS3 call Eva on the radio a few times after the fight with Ocelot (near the crevice), and she will tell you that he is the son of a legendary warrior who gave birth to him on the battlefield (just like The Boss says about her experience later in the game), and that his father is also a legendary solider (The Sorrow).

I don't really think The Sorrow is a legendary soldier. I think Snake just said "What about his father, this legendary hero" because he assumed the father was the legendary hero.

relating to above

"He is speculated to be the son of two legendary members of the Cobra unit, The Sorrow and The Boss, with his year of birth being 1944."

why is it speculated? it's circumstancial evidence but it literally can not be anyone else. Evidence from series FAQ by advariAR:

" Lastly, to inform anyone who doubted, I am NOT pulling Ocelot's parentage out of my ass. There are several clues present, along with one irrefutable bit.

Firstoff, radio conversations with Eva can reveal a few points;

- Ocelot is 20 years old
- Ocelot was born on a battlefield at the end of WWII via c-section
- Ocelot's mother has a long, winding 'snake' scar
- one of Ocelot's parents was a legendary soldier

The Boss will explain her child's birth in the end;

- Her child is male
- her child was born on D-day, 1944, making him 20 years old
- she gave birth via cesarean section
- her child was stolen by the Philosophers
- she has a winding, snakelike scar from the delivery

Therefore, the Boss's child would now be a 20-year-old man in the employ of the Philosophers.

Come ON. "

Revolver Ocelot's real name

Ocelot's real name is NOT Adamska. Adamska is a Polish female surname, if I remember correctly. Ocelot just chose that because he wanted to hint that he was ADAM and still keep up the charade of being Russian.

I agree, this is speculation and a lie used by ocelot simply attempting to make his code name (ADAM) seem more russian! --The Pain 16:41, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Ocelot's birthdate

The article says that Ocelot's birthdate is June 6, 1944.

As far as I know, the Normandy invasion lasted more than just June 6th. According to Wikipedia's own article on the Battle of Normandy, the Normandy invasion ended on August 25th.

And The Boss said "In June of 1944, the Cobras and I were part of the landing of Normandy. We had been given a top-secret mission to locate and destroy enemy V2 rocket installations. I was pregnant at the time. The Sorrow was the father. I gave birth on the field of battle. A beautiful baby boy. But my child was snatched away from me...by the Philosophers."

Couldn't it (the birth) possibly have been on another date? Sure, I too believe it was on June 6th, but doesn't Wikipedia have to be encyclopedic?

Deleting an unconfirmed part

This part right here:

Further evidence lies in his ability to channel Liquid Snake through his arm, as The Sorrow may have passed on the ability to communicate with the dead.

I'm deleting it because it is baseless and unsubstantiated and is a fan-made "theory" with no official support. Until it's confirmed, this part is going to be stricken.

Yes, but if you take that out you need to take out the fact that it is highly likely that his mother was The Boss, as THAT is pure speculation. A better idea than taking that line out, since it does absolutely reinforce the theory, is to create a section at the bottom of the article called "What's the deal with the arm?" or renamed the birth section "Speculation on Ocelot's Origin". At least imho. 154.20.135.89 22:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

No, his mother being the Boss isn't speculation. The codec conversation coupled with the Boss' own words reinforce the fact that Ocelot is the son of the Sorrow and the Boss. EVA said that Ocelot's mother was a legendary soldier, gave birth on a battlefield, and was left with a snake-shaped scar. The Boss is a legendary soldier, gave birth on the battlefield, and was left with a snake-shaped scar because of it. Also, when asked who the son was, Kojima said "He's in the game" and made a revolver twirling motion. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out, especially when all the information is laid in front of you like that. I'm not trying to shut you down or anything, but it's pretty obvious he's their son. There's evidence for Ocelot being their son but absolutely none, not even something from Kojima, to infer that the reason Liquid is able to talk is because of some powers Ocelot inherited from his father.

I'm also going to be deleting this part as well:

In the end of the mission, Ocelot was successful in delivering The Philosophers' Legacy to the CIA Director (after exchanging the one in Volgin's possesion with a fake one, which EVA stole instead).

Ocelot didn't deliver the Legacy to the United States. Snake did that. The Legacy wasn't exchanged with a fake one, either. Volgin gave the Boss the real Legacy in the Shagohod hangar. After the Boss took EVA away, and spilled the beans to her about her mission, she gave EVA a fake legacy. Then, before Snake kills her, she gives him the real Legacy. EVA believes that the Legacy she has is the real one in the flashback, but Snake tosses the real one on the table.

He also procured a copy of the Metal Gear blueprints from Aleksandr Leonovitch Granin.

He procured a copy of the Metal Gear REX blueprints, not just plain Metal Gear, so that's going to be changed. StealthHit06 07:20, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

It was an early model though, not definitely REX itself, but an early model that REX was based on probably. The section you refer to is mostly valid deletion and fixes, however it is accepted that Ocelot is the child of The Sorrow and The Boss. Whether the arm thing IS a result of his origins is unconfirmed, however. NightShade 06:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, an early model of REX but the Metal Gear TX-55 and Metal Gear D have nothing to do with this particular design, which is why I feel it is important to distinguish between the general term "Metal Gear" and the specific model of "REX". StealthHit06 21:09, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

True Enough NightShade 00:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Ocelot's Real Name?

In the original Metal Gear Solid game, Raven refers to Ocelot as 'General Ivan'. Is Ivan Ocelot's actual name, perhaps?

No. "Ivan" is being used there as slang for a Russian. The same thing is done in Metal Gear Solid 2 (Vamp refers to Ocelot as "Crazy Ivan"), and the game's script in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 explains its use. - DoubleCross 23:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Ocelot has the ability to superjump?

"Another one of Ocelot's most distinguishing features is that he's able to jump at super-human heights as featured in Metal Gear Solid 2 where he was able to leap on top of Metal Gear RAY's cockpit with or without leverage. This is yet another plot twist yet to be explaind, however holds two theories speculated by fans: One, that he wears powered exoskeleton pants with artificial muscle tissue, similarely used by both cyborg ninjas (Grey Fox and Olga in the Plant chapter of MGS2) and the Arsenal Gear Tengus, under his outer garments. The other, is that he uses the kinetic force of the bullets shot at him (when he uses the device that projects an electromagnetic field that veers bullets away) to lower the weight of his center of gravity, thus giving him the ability to defy gravity since both times he did this was when he was under heavy small-arms fire (Fortune may have had this ability also, but simply wouldn't know it until Ocelot revealed the truth behind her "luck")."

Is this really noteworthy? I mean, they never mention it. You only see it. For comparison, I may as well write that The Boss has superhuman strenght as she was able to carry the Davy Crockett cases which according to Hideo Kojima in the MGS3 commentary weighs more than 300 kilograms. Or how about writing that The Pain's hornets are supernatural, as they could protect The Pain from attacks when they covered him? Or how about writing in Big Boss' section that he is superhumanly resistant to damage? In the MGS3 commentary, at the beginning of Operation Snake Eater, Snake survives being in the D-21 drone at 30,000 feets height without a pressure suit, and Hideo Kojima notes "This is the instant Snake becomes superhuman (laughs)".

Cellular memories?

The article says "At this point Liquid's dormant personality takes over Ocelot's mind and body via the arm (due to Liquid's cellular memories in his arm)". First of all, what is "cellular memories"? Secondly, what is the source on that that is how Liquid takes over Ocelot? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.81.45.10 (talk • contribs) 06:38, April 30, 2006 (UTC)

A little searching on Google will give you the answer. [1] --DarkPhoenix 13:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Right, but what is the source on that that is how Liquid takes over Ocelot? I have heard more theories about the whole "Liquid takes over Ocelot through his arm" thing than just it being cellular memories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.81.45.10 (talk • contribs) 15:09, April 30, 2006 (UTC)

Well, that I have no answer to. In fact, I think that part should either be removed, or at least have a {{fact}}-tag added to it. It's speculative, at best. I don't remember there being any talk of this in-game at least, so I think a proper citation or reference is required. --DarkPhoenix 18:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we could make a "What's the deal with the arm?" section (Obviously, the section wouldn't nessacarily have to be called "What's the deal with the arm?"). Perhaps, within that section, various theories about the arm could be posted. What do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.81.45.10 (talk • contribs) 18:41, April 30, 2006 (UTC)

Well, there shouldn't be any original research on Wikipedia, and items of speculative nature should be avoided. So allowing people to freely write about their theories is generally not so good an idea. If, however, people can give verifiable and reliable sources to their claims, then I see nothing wrong about people writing about his arm. --DarkPhoenix 18:54, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the bit about the "cellular memories". Also, I have heard that in the Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty comic series, issue no.4 features The Sorrow. I haven't read the comics myself, but if anyone has that comic, could you tell us whether or not it is true that it features The Sorrow and what happens? This could potentially prove whether or not it is due to The Sorrow that Liquid can take over Ocelot.

The MGS comics aren't written by anyone at Konami (and the quality of the writing is VERY low) so they're at least a level below official canon. I don't think they can "prove" anything with regard to the games' story. Asterphage 21:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Later Career problems

"Ocelot continued his service in Spetsnaz until the collapse of the Soviet Union. Then he served OMON, the Russian Tax Police's elite swat team. Afterwards, he joined SVR, the Russian Foreign Intelligence Agency (successor to the KGB's First Directorate). However, he was unsatisfied with the new regime and left Russia. He participated in various regional conflicts (including the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan) as a hired mercenary,"

How can he have participated in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as a mercenary if he was a member of Spetznaz until the collapse of the Soviet Union? Likewise, I wonder about the sources and accuracy of the rest of that paragraph - it may be mentioned in his background in MGS that he served in OMON and SVR and that he considered FOXHOUND membership to be a great honor, I don't remember. Asterphage 21:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Same Ocelot?

I was wondering if there is any solid prove that the Ocelot (Adamska) in MGS3, and Revolver Ocelot in MGS1&2 are the same. I could have missed a CODEC or some information from interviews with Hideo.

Without doubt there definitely are some linkage between the two ocelots, just not sure they are the same. - yktan9

I am VERY sure that they are the same.

Evidence:

Similar name (Ocelot/Revolver Ocelot)

Same type of weapons (Colt Single Action Army revolvers)

Similar qoutes:

After you beat Ocelot in MGS1 he says "You're pretty good."

After Big Boss defeated Ocelot in the Virtuous Mission, Big Boss said "You're pretty good." to which Ocelot replied "Pretty...good..."

Here is a RECURRING qoute: Just before Ocelot runs away after getting his hand cut off by the Ninja in MGS1 he says "You were lucky. We'll meet again!"

After you defeat Ocelot during the boss battle in MGS3, Ocelot says the exact same words: "You were lucky. We'll meet again!"

Also, Jonny2x4 said in the talk page for the list of Metal Gear Solid 3 characters that in MGA2, character cards tend to be upgraded into their futuristic couterparts, and that the Ocelot card turned into Revolver Ocelot.

The Ocelot in MGS3 is the same as the one in MGS1 and MGS2, no doubt.

Thanks for details. Convincing enough. - yktan9

Arm Medication?

Under the tanker chapter section, it mentions "Ocelot is seen using injections of some sort to suppress the manifestations. " however, it merely looked to me as if he were roughly gripping his arm, as if physically wrestling with it, as opposed to injecting a subtance into it. I'm oingto watch it again, but this line appears suspicious to me, especially given his later statements that "the attacks" seem to occur so often due to Snake's presence (which is mentioned in the main article).

New Ocelot pic.

Can we change the first Revolver Ocelot picture on this article? It's kind of an insult to him, and doesn't look like him at all. It should be, in my opinion, the Liquid Ocelot picture from MGS4 when he's wearing sunglasses with his hand up in a fist.