User:TonyTheTiger/sandbox/FOURRFC: Difference between revisions
Crisco 1492 (talk | contribs) →Background: better link |
TonyTheTiger (talk | contribs) Re-read the talk page FAQs. FOUR eligibility has always been for any editorial involvement in the transition from redlink to encyclopedic. Former FOUR has always included all formerly recognized. |
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====Background==== |
====Background==== |
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One of the issues raised during the controversy was whether we should retain a list of all formerly recognized FOUR articles. This is analogous to [[WP:FFA]] and [[WP:FFL]]. Some have raised the issue of removing [[South Side, Chicago]] from the list for reasons that may be for no other reason than to contest any authority I claim over the project. No arguments were presented, so I am not clear as to any rationale why we should not retain a list of former FOURs. |
One of the issues raised during the controversy was whether we should retain a list of all formerly recognized FOUR articles. This is analogous to [[WP:FFA]] and [[WP:FFL]]. Some have raised the issue of removing [[South Side, Chicago]] from the list for reasons that may be for no other reason than to contest any authority I claim over the project. No arguments were presented, so I am not clear as to any rationale why we should not retain a list of former FOURs. |
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*Ridiculous. "[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_Side,_Chicago&diff=next&oldid=149872900 First encyclopedic content added by Speciate]" following your definition that FOUR is for "[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Four_Award&diff=564952291&oldid=564945573 the transition from a redlink to an article with encyclopedic content.]". You're claiming WP:FOUR on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_Side,_Chicago&oldid=149872839 this], which was not encyclopedic. Bzzt, wrong answer Tony. — [[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 14:13, 15 August 2013 (UTC) |
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====Vote==== |
====Vote==== |
Revision as of 14:44, 15 August 2013
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This page was last edited by TonyTheTiger (talk | contribs) 11 years ago. (Update timer) |
Recently there has been a lot of controversy over three issues at WP:FOUR.
- Should the project change the definition of the starting point of a new article from the point at which the article has its first encyclopedic content (readable prose that presents the notability of a topic) to the point at which it first appears in main article space. These definitions differ drastically when an article is created in userspace or a sandbox.
- Does User:TonyTheTiger have any authority over the project as his self-proclaimed title of Director might imply
- Can editors withdraw their names and articles from the list of awarded authors and articles. Note controversy involved both erasing one's name from the list (replaced with [placeholder]) and removing the whole article's line of dates from the table.
FYI-parties and projects contacted directly for this RFC: the 167 current FOUR awardees, WP:CREATE, WP:DYK, WP:GA, WP:GAC, WP:FA, WP:FAC, and WP:FOUR.
Details
The FOUR award is a recognition for persons who have made a significant difference in the development of a WP:FA at each stage of its development recognized by the project. Currently stage one of the four stages of development of a featured article is defined as the creation of the article. We have heretofore defined this as the stage in which the first encyclopedic content is added to the article. Operationally, this means that the first stage, known as the creation stage is the stage in which the first readable prose that defines a notable topic is added to an article. This leaves a window open for collaboration among editors who all contribute to an article before it becomes encyclopedic.
Proponents of the rule change suggest that people involved in a collaboration during its first 24 hours should be FOUR eligible. They also discuss diffs showing intention of being involved in the article before it was ever created, but have not stated whether one must show diffs of commitment prior to the article's creation.
This proposal enables those who did not make a difference at every currently-defined stage, but who made a difference in the article soon enough (within 24 hours) after missing out on making a difference in the first stage and who may have diffs showing an interest in making a difference at each stage to be FOUR-eligible although they made no difference to the article in the currently-defined first stage.
Why is this important
Hundreds of articles have been evaluated using the same criteria. Even when slight changes were made to the criteria historically, we have attempted to keep the list of awarded articles current for these changes. This change could impact the awarded articles in several ways.
- Some articles could go from Rejected to FOUR-awarded
Example: Some people worked together outside of mainspace and moved the article and its article history into mainspace later. The very first edit was an encyclopedic edit and was by someone who was not involved in all stages that would result in a FOUR. Other editors who were part of this group were involved in all stages that would result in a FOUR.
- Some articles could go from FOUR-awarded to rejected
Example: An article is created in user/sandbox space for 50 edits before the article and its article history are moved into mainspace. It achieves DYK with its 75th edit. Suppose that after moving the article to mainspace, the article was nominated by someone else who cleaned it up for DYK with the last 25 edits. Formerly, this article might have been a FOUR because edits 2-50 and 51-75 were the DYK phase. Now, Only edits 51-75 are the DYK phase. and the article would fail FOUR.
- Some articles could go from a single awarded editor to multiple awarded editors
Example: Lets look at the Nick-D and Ian Rose article type that has so many panties in a bunch: People collaborated on the article while it was in user/sandbox space. The first encyclopedic content is added by one of them while the article is still not in the main space. The two continue to expand the article collaboratively. Then one of them moves it to article space. Then the two collaboratively put the article through DYK, GA and FA. Under the first encyclopedic content analysis of the article only one of them would be eligible for the award. If the userspace/sandbox article history is made known to the reviewer the person who started the article in userspace would be the awardee. If the article history is not made known to the reviewer, the person who moves the article into mainspace would be the awardee. Under the proposed revised rules both would be awardees.
- Some articles could go from multiple awarded editors to a single awarded editor
Example: Editor 1 is the coordinator of a collaboration of the week for a WikiProject and starts the article in the project's sandbox by adding a {{underconstruction}} template as well as the project's WP:COTW template at the top. Then, editor 2 is a COTW participant who over the course of 100 edits adds 10 KB of readable prose with 50 WP:ICs. The first edit of those 100 was "Mrs. Foo is an XYZ award-winning Goo.", which clearly defines the article about Mrs. Foo as an encyclopedic topic assuming the XYZ award is sufficient to make someone notable among those who are in the Goo profession. Following the COTW, the main editor moves that article from the sandbox and nominates the article for the various FOUR stages. Formerly when judging the first encyclopedic content with the perspective that collaboration is allowed. The two individuals who made the first two edits would have been collaborators in the transition from a redlink to an encyclopedic topic. Under the mainspace date rule, the first editor made such trivial contributions that they would not be collaborators.
Issue 1 - Changing the criteria
Background
Since this project began 437 articles have been approved and approximately twice that many have been rejected (considering only current WP:FAs that have been both WP:GAs and WP:DYKs in the past). I.e. a total of XXXX articles that have been DYKs, GAs and FAs have been reviewed. In addition, in the early days of the FOUR award TonyTheTiger reviewed all pre-August 2007 FAs in search of the oldest FOURs. All of these have been reviewed for contribution by the same editor to the four stages based on the first stage being defined as the point at which the article has its first encyclopedic content. None of them have ever been reviewed based on the first stage being defined as the point at which the article first appears in main article space.
Changing the stages by which the criteria of the award are judged means that currently approved articles may be rejected for awards and currently rejected articles may be approved for awards. It also means articles currently approved for a single editor may be approved for multiple editors. It also means that future articles that may have been approved for multiple editors might only be approved for a single editor (no current article are approved for multiple editors).
Vote
Please add # followed by your signature to one of the below subsections to show your support
Support - original criteria based on the first encyclopedic content
Support - new criteria based on when the article enters the main space
Discussion
Feel free to discuss your support above.
Issue 2 - Should the project have a Director
Background, pt 1
This has been a small project with only two regular editors (TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) and Little Mountain 5 (talk · contribs)). Tony has curated the project for four years under the self proclaimed title of Director. However, with only two regulars, any group of 4 or 5 people who decide they want to change the project around can declare Tony's authority invalid and claim WP:CONSENSUS to change the project to be whatever they want. The only way to protect the stability of the project is to authorize a directorship. However, the project may be in need of new direction at times and the only way to allow for that is to allow the CONSENSUS of the day to have its say.
Vote, pt 1
Please add # followed by your signature to one of the below subsections to show your support
Support having a Director
Support not having a Director
Discussion, pt 1
Background, pt 2
TTT has done the vast majority of the work to keep the project running over the last 4 years. And even the majority of this RFC, setting up possible changes, was prepared by TTT. He has reviewed the vast majority of candidates and made the vast majority of promotions. He has established most of the policies by which the project is run. Little Mountain 5 has also been a consistent contributor and probably knows enough to run the project. He is one of many potential candidates in an open election.
You can tell a lot about who has administered the project by looking at its history. Here are the edit histories of the project's main pages: Wikipedia:Four Award (edit counts), Wikipedia talk:Four Award (edit counts), Wikipedia:Four Award/Records (edit counts), Wikipedia talk:Four Award/FAQ (edit counts).
Vote, pt 2
Please add # followed by your signature to one of the below subsections to show your support
TonyTheTiger should be Director if we have one
TonyTheTiger should not necessarily be Director if we have one
Discussion, pt 2
Issue 3 - Disassociation
Background
Nick-D (talk · contribs) and Ian Rose (talk · contribs) collaborated on Lockheed C-130 Hercules in Australian service by creating the article in user space. They transfered the article to main space. TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) determined that this article only qualified one editor for the FOUR award based on the encyclopedic content rule. However, several editors felt that the main space appearance rule was better. Tony has refused to recognize this alternate rule, which would have made a second editor eligible. This led to three editors (Nick-D, Crisco 1492 (talk · contribs), and The ed17 (talk · contribs)) requesting to disassociate with FOUR by removing a total of 15 articles from the list of FOUR articles (18 articles are now impacted due to recent promotions). Oddly, Ian Rose, the editor who was denied FOUR by Tony's decision is not one of the three. Tony attempted to revert these changes by using [placeholder] in place of the user names in hopes of maintaining the historical integrity of the project. His attempts to revert these three editors led to him being blocked from WP for 48 hours by Bwilkins (talk · contribs).
At WP:WBE, it is common to replace your user ID with [placeholder]. At WP:WBFAN, editors may have their user ID removed but it is not clear that they can remove their articles from being included at WP:FA.
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User | Article | Award date | Creation date | DYK date | GA date | FA date |
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User:Crisco 1492 | |||||||
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[placeholder] | Ruma Maida | June 1, 2012 | May 8, 2012 | May 22, 2012 | May 12, 2012 | May 31, 2012 |
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[placeholder] (2) | ? (film) | August 18, 2012 | November 6, 2011 | April 1, 2012 | December 19, 2011 | August 18, 2012 |
![]() |
[placeholder] (3) | Oerip Soemohardjo | September 11, 2012 | May 7, 2012 | May 14, 2012 | June 17, 2012 | September 11, 2012 |
![]() |
[placeholder] (4) | Andjar Asmara | September 20, 2012 | August 7, 2012 | August 15, 2012 | September 2, 2012 | September 20, 2012 |
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[placeholder] (5) | Mereka Bilang, Saya Monyet! | October 7, 2012 | November 5, 2011 | November 28, 2011 | August 29, 2012 | October 6, 2012 |
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[placeholder] (6) | Frank's Cock | December 3, 2012 | August 17, 2012 | December 1, 2012 | October 24, 2012 | November 15, 2012 |
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[placeholder] (7) | Terang Boelan | December 9, 2012 | August 12, 2012 | August 19, 2012 | November 2, 2012 | December 4, 2012 |
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[placeholder] (8) | Sair Tjerita Siti Akbari | April 6, 2013 | October 10, 2012 | October 24, 2012 | October 26, 2012 | April 6, 2013 |
![]() |
[placeholder] (9) | Gagak Item | May 26, 2013 | March 4, 2013 | March 8, 2013 | March 10, 2013 | May 26, 2013 |
![]() |
[placeholder] (10) | Lie Kim Hok | July 6, 2013 | October 13, 2012 | October 24, 2012 | May 26, 2013 | July 1, 2013 |
![]() |
[placeholder] (11) | Sorga Ka Toedjoe | August 3, 2013 | June 10, 2013 | June 20, 2013 | June 11, 2013 | July 23, 2013 |
![]() |
[placeholder] (12) | Djaoeh Dimata | August 3, 2013 | July 1, 2013 | July 5, 2013 | July 15, 2013 | August 3, 2013 |
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[placeholder] (13) | Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang | August 15, 2013 | March 11, 2013 | March 15, 2013 | April 10, 2013 | August 15, 2013 |
User:the ed17 | |||||||
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[placeholder] | Design 1047 battlecruiser | April 29, 2009 | February 17, 2009 | February 19, 2009 | February 21, 2009 | April 14, 2009 |
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[placeholder] (2) | Brazilian battleship Minas Geraes | June 17, 2009 | February 14, 2009 | February 21, 2009 | February 17, 2009 | June 16, 2009 |
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[placeholder] (3) | Japanese battleship Tosa | September 7, 2011 | September 25, 2009 | April 24, 2010 | April 23, 2010 | May 11, 2010 |
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[placeholder] (4) | Brazilian cruiser Bahia | September 17, 2011 | September 4, 2009 | September 12, 2009 | September 11, 2009 | October 31, 2009 |
User:Nick-D | |||||||
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[placeholder] | Lockheed C-130 Hercules in Australian service | July 23, 2013 | TBD | April 24, 2013 | April 17, 2013 | July 23, 2013 |
Vote
Please add # followed by your signature to one of the below subsections to show your support
Support - Editors may remove their user ID, the article name and the article dates entirely
Support - Editors may only replace their user ID with "[placeholder]"
Discussion
Feel free to discuss your support above.
Issue 4 - Collaboration
Background
Since the recent controversy revolved around giving FOUR credit to a second editor, we should consider whether we want the FOUR award to be open to collaborative credit. Since the final three stages are clearly easily collaborated on, the issue is whether we consider the start of the article to be a collaborative stage. I.E., do we want the single individual who made the edit that is considered the starting point of the article (first encyclopedic content, article enters main space) or do we want to consider all editors who contributed from the transition from a redlink to an encyclopedic article to be eligible for the award.
- Encyclopedic content consideration collaboration types
- Article started from a redirect: The redirector and the article creator who collaborate through DYK, GA and FA.
- Article recreated after a WP:CSD or WP:AFD: Editors from the deleted article and the recreator who collaborate through DYK, GA and FA.
- Article started with several edits before the first encyclopedic content: All editors who contributed before the article was encyclopedic who collaborate through DYK, GA and FA.
- First enters mainspace collaboration types
- All editors who make a notable contribution to the article before it enters mainspace as an encyclopedic topic.
Vote
Please add # followed by your signature to one of the below subsections to show your support
Support - Only one editor
Support - All start collaborators
Discussion
Feel free to discuss your support above.
Issue 5 - Former FOUR records
Background
One of the issues raised during the controversy was whether we should retain a list of all formerly recognized FOUR articles. This is analogous to WP:FFA and WP:FFL. Some have raised the issue of removing South Side, Chicago from the list for reasons that may be for no other reason than to contest any authority I claim over the project. No arguments were presented, so I am not clear as to any rationale why we should not retain a list of former FOURs.
Vote
Please add # followed by your signature to one of the below subsections to show your support
Support - Retain complete list
Support - List only some former FOUR articles
Support - No list of former FOUR articles
Discussion
Feel free to discuss your support above.