Talk:United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine/Archive 7

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Land ownership image

I would like to clarify exactly what the land ownership image file in the "proposed division" section actually shows. For example, are the highlighted areas land which was 100% Jewish-owned, or just partially Jewish-owned? I assume the latter, since Jerusalem is coloured orange and no large areas within it were 100% Jewish prior to 1948. Also, is data available to produce a similar map for public-owned and Arab-owned land?

The picture originally comes from the CIA 1973 Atlas, but it's not clear where they got the data from. Perhaps from the Survey of Palestine, but that is online here and doesn't appear to include this map. Any ideas? Oncenawhile (talk) 10:37, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

It would seem the info came from Village statistics 1945. An institution must have taken the detailed land data by village and turned it in to a map. If so, it would mean that (1) the highlighted areas are partially Jewish-owned land and (2) data is available to produce a similar map for public-owned and Arab-owned land. So the remaining question is, which organisation actually produced the map originally? Oncenawhile (talk) 13:22, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

I looked in slightly less than a million places; no luck so far. Zero^talk 14:01, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

There is a similar-looking map labeled "Jewish Land Ownership in Palestine 1947" on page 247 of Tessler, A History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (2nd edn). Tessler does not give a source, alas. Zero^talk 10:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Having looked around for a few more hours, I am now beginning to think that rather than "ownership", this map represents "Jewish controlled zones" at the beginning of the 1947-48 civil war. See the source description in French at File:Zones juives 1dec47 + relief.GIF. Does anyone have access to the English version of that Ilan Pappe book? It may refer to the original primary source there. Oncenawhile (talk) 19:33, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

according to "State Lands and Rural Development in Mandatory Palestine, 1920-1948" By Warwick P. N. Tyler, p.77 , after 1940, because of the restriction, the JNF have purchased a considerable amount of land, which stayed registered under Arab names. Ykantor (talk) 19:57, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Page 16 of Tyler's book has another similar map, this time it says "registered land in Jewish possession". I don't see a source but I don't have the book to look properly. The shaded area is similar but not the same as Tessler's map. I don't think it is land in military control as that would have been much larger. Zero^talk 00:05, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

I have found another similar map with a primary source, albeit 15 years older here (the next page has a similar map from 1944 but refers to a secondary source). The primary source for the 1929 map is the Shaw Report, and the table of contents of the Shaw Report that was kindly sent to me some time ago confirms this (although unfortunately the file does not actually include the images). I wonder whether future commissions included updated versions of the map - perhaps the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry? Oncenawhile (talk) 06:44, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the Shaw Report has two such maps. One is called "Jewish Lands and Settlements in Palestine" and the other is "Map of Palestine indicating distribution and size of Jewish Land Holdings". I have them. Zero^talk 09:53, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

As for Stein's book, I had looked there but obviously not carefully enough. On pages 209 and 210 there are maps "Registered Land in Jewish Possession, 1930" and "Registered Land in Jewish Possession, 1944". Given that Stein is acknowledged as an expert on the subject, we can use these. At first glance I don't see a source given by Stein, but he refers to the British cadastral surveys that would have had such data. Zero^talk 10:03, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

I believe I found the source. There was a sequence of maps called "Index to Villages and Settlements" produced by the mandatory government. In this list (item 9) is a mention of the Dec 31 1944 version. And here is the March 1945 version. Zero^talk 14:37, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Great work - well done! I will upload this with the appropriate copyright tags. Oncenawhile (talk) 20:37, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

See File:Palestine Index to Villages and Settlements, showing Jewish-owned Land 31 March 1945.jpg. Any comments on the copyright tags? It is definitely an Orphaned work and has no declared copyright that i can see. Interestingly they published another apparently uncopyrighted work in 1957 here [1] - archive.org took the same view that that work was "Published in the US without copyright before 1989".Oncenawhile (talk) 22:26, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

More information: the report of the Anglo-American Committee says that there are five maps which were not ready at the time the report was published. They were published later and I will get them. One is a map of Jewish land holdings as of Dec 1944. A map with that description appeared in "Proposals for the Futre of Palestine" (Cmd. 7044). It looks much like the other maps unless you look too closely at the details. Those little blobs never had exactly the same shape on different maps. I'll scan it tomorrow. Zero^talk 10:28, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Here is the map. It is the "Morrison-Grady plan" with Jewish-owned land indicated. Zero^talk 08:32, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

British reaction

Arthur Koestler's Promise and Fulfilment is being used as a reliable source in the British reaction section. Koestler wrote many fine books, but Promise and Fulfilment is not one of them. It is a propaganda work which repeatedly gives a one-sided view by omitting important, contradicting detail. As such, it should not be being used as a reliable source for anything other than what Koestler, a covert Irgun supporter, wrote. Using it as a sole source for British actions cannot but lead to a POVish statement of those. In addition the book was written decades ago, shortly after Israeli independence. Numerous better and more up-to-date sources are available.     ←   ZScarpia   21:10, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, you are right. Incidentally there is a book by his widow that describes Koestler as being drunk most of the time during this period. I'm not sure that is relevant, though. Zero^talk 23:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Another source was added. Ykantor (talk) 10:09, 21 August 2013 (UTC)